Do we have any Muslims here?

[Christian Liberty]

So in your view, Iraq and Afghanistan were Christian crusades?

No, they weren't, but the fact remains that the majority of "Christians" do support this nonsense.

"God and Country" is a good name for the false religion of statolatry.

 

[PierzStyx]

So in your view, Iraq and Afghanistan were Christian crusades?

It is overwhelmingly true that when America attacks another nation it is Christians doing it. Christians flying the planes. Christians piloting the drones. Christians invading other countries. Christians putting to the torch men, women, and children, destroying their homes, ravaging their countries. Looking from the outside in it is easy to see how others might think it is Christianity that if not explicitly tells Americans to do these things, then at least justifies it. And many American Christian even use the Bible to justify it. So many Evangelicals want to bomb the Middle East into dust in order to protect Israel because they believe God commands them to it sickens me.

 

[PierzStyx]

Really? What is the political system of Christianity? (What is "Christianity" to you? Polytheism?)

You don't know? Well, I'll be. I thought you knew everything about the Bible, God's plan, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[Sola_Fide]

It is overwhelmingly true that when America attacks another nation it is Christians doing it. Christians flying the planes. Christians piloting the drones. Christians invading other countries. Christians putting to the torch men, women, and children, destroying their homes, ravaging their countries.

Oh, that's overwhelmingly true, huh? What if a Christian could not engage in that murder or support a regime of murder?

Looking from the outside in it is easy to see how others might think it is Christianity that if not explicitly tells Americans to do these things, then at least justifies it. And many American Christian even use the Bible to justify it. So many Evangelicals want to bomb the Middle East into dust in order to protect Israel because they believe God commands them to it sickens me.

If people just say "I'm a Christian", then it's true? What if none of those murder supporters were Christians?

 

[Sola_Fide]

You don't know? Well, I'll be. I thought you knew everything about the Bible, God's plan, and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

You said that Christianity has a political system like Islam does. What is it?

 

[1stAmendguy]

First, you are not distinguishing between Biblical Christianity, which is anti-state, and Roman Catholicism, which is collectivistic and promotes world government.

Secondly, what kind of drugs do you have to be doing to not see that NONE of the most brutal dictatorships in history ever "put their hand on a Bible". Mao, Stalin, etc. All atheistic regimes to the core. That's YOUR legacy, you own it.

I don't know where to start with your assessment. First of all, you love to point out how your version of Christianity is "distinguished" from roman Catholicism, and you mention in other posts protestantism etc and your beliefs bare no burden for the bad things done under Jesus' name, but you have no problem lumping all atheists beliefs into a legacy left by dictators. You can't have it both ways. Either you backtrack on saying all atheists beliefs are wrapped up in a legacy left by them or I get to say you have to answer for all the bad things done in Christianity regardless of denomination. Of course, I'm not saying yours fits with the latter but this fetish people like you get in saying that Stalin Mao "atheist regimes!" is wrongheaded to begin with. Furthermore, you are still stubbornly not acknowledging that atheism is not a worldview, so any application to it being the infamous dictators root source for their evil is stupid.

 

[ibaghdadi]

It would be great to hear from you.

There used to be, before this place became inhospitable to us.

No offense, but certain discussions made me feel like Jewish person attending a neo-Nazi rally.

When I left, several years ago, I left a farewell note.

I've since built quite an online following on Twitter (and Facebook), where I can get far more interactions and can at least block the crazier ones.

The reason I'm browsing RPF now is because I'm "officially" offline. Since the death of a close friend in Egypt, I've been keeping a low profile for my & my family's safety.

In the meanwhile I'm concentrating on my writing project, "The Arab Spring Manifesto", which is an Islamic Libertarian manifesto. I've also been working on a popular satirical project, "The Arab Tyrant's Manual".

Meanwhile, I still get messages pleading with me to explain to this-or-that "hater" that Muslims can be good people. This is how I normally respond.

 

[TER]

Meanwhile, I still get messages pleading with me to explain to this-or-that "hater" that Muslims can be good people.

It is nice to see you igbagdadi. Unfortunately it seems you haven't changed much in your sophomoric attempts at adding unnecessary drama to the forum. Have you been called as backup to defend the accusations of Christians? Then defend the accusations being made rather then going for the trademark drama which you posted above. Muwahid and I are having a good discussion on the merits of Muhammad's claims. Would you like to comment on them, or ignore the issue?

No one said Muslims cannot be good people. Some of the most lovely and caring people I know are Muslims. These are people who I welcome in my house and have been the closest of friends with for over 20 years. A man who was my deceased father-in-law's closest friend and has been like a second father to my wife is a devout Muslim. There are few people I have met who I respect more in my life, such a good soul this man is. No one in the past few weeks in this forum and running debate has said such a statement to say that Muslims are in general not good people, so please spare us the drama. They are still children of the same God, loved by Him and cared by Him, even in spite of the fact that they follow a prophet who was deceived.

I am sorry if my belief that Muhammad was inspired by a jinn hurts you, but it is the logical explanation from a Christian perspective. This is not a charge against the individual Muslim who has been indoctrinated by the lie that he was some awaited prophet when he simply wasn't. Everyone will give their own defense on the reasons why they did not believe Christ to be the Savior, and I leave God to be as judge. In other words, no one is condemning Muslims to hell in this running debate. I trust Christ is a much better judge than anyone of else.

But it is this same Christ Who has already warned us about people such as Muhammad who would come to lead the people astray from Him. It is neither a crime nor an offense to warn people about Muhammad's lie. It is the rather the Christian duty to defend the truth and the children of God from a possessed philandering war-mongering pedophile who spoke untruths against Christ and had deceived so many people. Luckily I live in a country where I can do this without threat of torture and death (at least for now), though I wonder in your 'libertarian' opinion if you believe I should have that right. If so, then I welcome you to contribute to our debate with facts rather then accusatory emotional posts like above. It would be interesting to see how you can defend the claim being put forward that Muhammad was prophesied by the Christians and Jews and that the original apostolic Christian belief was that Jesus was not put on the cross when the weight of the history of the world says otherwise.

 

[pcosmar]

There used to be,

Nice to see you again.

I am not on FB all that much.. But still have you as a friend.

 

[pcosmar]

It is nice to see you igbagdadi. Unfortunately it seems you haven't changed much in your sophomoric attempts at adding unnecessary drama to the forum.

Woah,, i remember when he left.. and it was due to a lot of anti-Muslim attacks.

There were a couple of others,, activists during Ron's first run. and they were made less than welcome here.

It is not "drama".. it is a fact.

 

[TER]

Woah,, i remember when he left.. and it was due to a lot of anti-Muslim attacks.

There were a couple of others,, activists during Ron's first run. and they were made less than welcome here.

It is not "drama".. it is a fact.

I remember when he left too. I remember it quite well in fact, as it was against me which he claims he left. My response is in that thread he posted for the record.

That Muslims left this forum because they were being confronted on the lies and misrepresentations made by their prophet is indeed a fact. That some avoid the evidence and facts of the debate which may make them uncomfortable and then ignoring it, turn it around like they are being victimized is the drama. I welcome ibaghdadi to be an active member here and to present his case instead of doing a drive-by like he just did.

The anti-Christian rhetoric is much stronger here and much more consistent, in case you haven't noticed. Ask Ronin, he knows all about it. But one debate occurs challenging the claims Muhammad has regarding Jesus Christ (a thread started by a Muslim BTW), and then Christians present the facts which make some unhappy, and now we are anti-Muslim and this forum does not welcome them? Have I ever spoken about getting rid of the Muslim members? Have I ever threatened them with violence or said I was better than them or more assured of my salvation? Have I been anything but brutally honest about my beliefs while trying (to the best of my abilities) keeping it not about the individual Muslim but rather their prophet who I believe has deceived them? Yet ibaghdadi comes back on the scene, stirs the pot a little when it is convenient for him, and this forum is now anti-Muslim? I would be surprised if there were many forums so full of conservative Christians and libertarians who have defended Muslims more than this site has over the years. So pscomar, you too, please spare me the drama about this site being anti-Muslim. Christians have a right just as Muslims do to present their case and allow the readers to decide. But some of us would rather the Christians keep silent and not present the facts which make Muslims uncomfortable. But if they are uncomfortable, then they should be, so that they might wake up and see the lies started by their 'prophet'.

What do you feel is the solution, pscomar? Should the Christians just shut up and swallow the lies that are being propagated here regarding the Christian faith? When a Muslim starts a thread casting doubt on the very foundational confession of Christians, are Christians not allowed to defend their faith and present the facts? Are you happier to mute everyone else so that the few Muslims members here can post threads which cast doubts on the divinity of Christ? Let them start the threads! I welcome them! But let them also answer to the facts which straight away refute them. And if they run out of answers and then start doing drive-by attacks claiming that this forum is anti-Muslim for presenting facts, then that is unnecessary drama I was referring to, made to bury the greater and more important issue at hand, namely the lies Muhammad has perpetrated against the Lord.

 

[pcosmar]

They are still children of the same God, loved by Him and cared by Him, even in spite of the fact that they follow a prophet who was deceived.

You know,, I feel the same about those that venerate Constantine.

And I make distinction between empires and their propaganda,, and Faith in a God above it all.

Christ warned of False teachers.. and Christianity has it's fair share.

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

That is not speaking of other religions.. That is directly speaking of those in the Christian Faith.

Disguising themselves,, (like a pope)

 

[TER]

You know,, I feel the same about those that venerate Constantine.

And I make distinction between empires and their propaganda,, and Faith in a God above it all.

Christ warned of False teachers.. and Christianity has it's fair share.


That is not speaking of other religions.. That is directly speaking of those in the Christian Faith.

Disguising themselves,, (like a pope)

St. Constantine never claimed to be a prophet. And he never denied Christ rose from the dead.
In fact, given the opportunity to make himself regarded and remembered as a living god of the Roman Empire, he chose to elevate and worship Jesus Christ instead when it was widely unpopular and politically dangerous for him to do so. So he is venerated for doing something given his particular circumstance and station not many people (maybe even you) would have done.

Funny how in one post you complain about the anti-Muslim sentiment which you think is being made here, and in the very next post make your own anti-Catholic attack.

 

[TER]

And for those who don't remember, the straw that apparently broke the camel's back and was the reason why ibaghdadi left was because I posted an article about 59 churches in Ethiopia being burned to the ground in a span of a week by Islamic fanatics. The thread is here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?283511-Muslims-Burn-Churches-in-Ethiopia )for anyone interested. Apparently, posting articles such as this was unacceptable to ibaghdadi. He would much have preferred that the news of these church burning were not publicized or at least not mentioned on RPF.

 

[pcosmar]

Funny how in one post you complain about the anti-Muslim sentiment which you think is being made here, and in the very next post make your own anti-Catholic attack.

I DO NOT DEFEND RELIGION.

They are all full of Fail. I defend people and principles. Not religious institutions.


People are so quick to defend whatever flavor of religion they cling to,, and slow to question those teachers. People will defend their religion to the point of ignoring the God they claim to serve.
I am quite the opposite. I dislike religion,, any and all of them.

Religions are the problem.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I back ibaghdadi. I am glad to see him back. I hope he stays and feels welcome. I wish the best of luck on The Arab Spring Manifesto. An ambitious and worthwhile project.

 

[ibaghdadi]

I back ibaghdadi. I am glad to see him back. I hope he stays and feels welcome. I wish the best of luck on The Arab Spring Manifesto. An ambitious and worthwhile project.

Thanks, helmuth_hubener. The work is actually nearly 80% complete. We're hoping for a 2015 publishing date.

Ironically, I'm only back to RPF because of certain circumstances that have put my personal safety (and that of my family) in jeopardy, and forced me away from social media or blogging.

Anyway, it's always exciting to hear liberty expressed in different ways, by people coming from different cultural and religious backgrounds.

Also, don't feed the trolls.

 

[jllundqu]

Thanks, helmuth_hubener. The work is actually nearly 80% complete. We're hoping for a 2015 publishing date.

Ironically, I'm only back to RPF because of certain circumstances that have put my personal safety (and that of my family) in jeopardy, and forced me away from social media or blogging.

Anyway, it's always exciting to hear liberty expressed in different ways, by people coming from different cultural and religious backgrounds.

Also, don't feed the trolls.

Welcome back. Try to ignore the religious fanatics.. we've tried to calm their fury at all things non-christian, but it's a work in progress.

 

[amy31416]

Woah,, i remember when he left.. and it was due to a lot of anti-Muslim attacks.

There were a couple of others,, activists during Ron's first run. and they were made less than welcome here.

It is not "drama".. it is a fact.

I have to agree. We had one (that I know of) Muslim here who was slightly on the extreme side, but I've always considered ibaghdadi more of a scholarly and very polite type of person.

 

[green73]

I just have the religion forum on ignore now. So much hate and rancour brews there, and I fail to see how it belongs on this site.

I'm scratching my head about the neo-Nazi comparison. It seems we can't win. We're always being told that we're Jew haters and Muslim lovers (meant as a pejorative, of course). This is the first time I've heard we're also anti-Muslim. Now, if what you speak of came from the religious forum, do what I do and put it on ignore.