DC - helicopter & passenger jet collide in mid-air

While the primary fault will likely be the failure of the helicopter pilot to see the correct plane, air traffic control was the only (human) that was in a position to see the impending crash based upon altitude and course of the two craft.

But these were two advanced aircraft. Don't they have electronic warning systems? Doesn't any warning go off in air traffic control? We are in the age of AI, yet a computer that can warn of a potential collision (based on altitude and course) probably could be implemented with a computer from 1980. What gives? No doubt there are answers, but from a common sense (with no knowledge of the systems in use) perspective, it doesn't make sense.


https://x.com/USAB4L/status/1885012789875662926
 
I've long been critical of tower controllers not looking out the window as much as they should.

Although things are much harder to see at night, that in itself is a good reason to use a high level of caution and monitoring when you authorize an aircraft to cross the final approach path.

A controller can transfer responsibility to separate traffic if he can get one aircraft to confirm that he sees another aircraft.

But what happens when that aircraft has wrongly identified the traffic?

I'm not sure that the controller did anything wrong here, but there will be a push to blame him and the regional jet crew simply to preserve the hero status of the military guys. It happens every time.
 
sparebulb said:
...
I'm not sure that the controller did anything wrong here, but there will be a push to blame him and the regional jet crew simply to preserve the hero status of the military guys. It happens every time.
Click to expand...

Yeah, usually true, that may be the final outcome.

But if you watched the Trump news conference this morning, Trump was emphasizing that it was the helicopter that was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and that it was a clear night, so the helicopter pilot should have seen the passenger aircraft.
 
sparebulb said:
...
But what happens when that aircraft has wrongly identified the traffic?
...
Click to expand...

Exactly. From a non-expert perspective, it seems like air traffic control would be the only entity to be able to accurately identify the mistake and potential collision.
 
Brian4Liberty said:
Exactly. From a non-expert perspective, it seems like air traffic control would be the only entity to be able to accurately identify the mistake and potential collision.
Click to expand...

Correct.

The traffic collision and avoidance system should have given the rj crew an indication of where the helicopter was if the helo's transponder was on and in a mode that was civilian decypherable.

The TCAS would not give a conflict action warning less than 1000 above the ground.

Not that this is a total pass, but a night visual approach to a short runway can be quite difficult and the crew has better things to do than look 90 degrees out the window for possible traffic when you are 350' above the ground.

There are probably many reasons not to do this by local rules and procedures, but one of the safest places to route that helicopter would be directly over the airport rather than across the final approach path.
 
sparebulb said:
Correct.

The traffic collision and avoidance system should have given the rj crew an indication of where the helicopter was if the helo's transponder was on and in a mode that was civilian decypherable.

The TCAS would not give a conflict action warning less than 1000 above the ground.
Click to expand...

I am not familiar with any of the technology or potential technologies. Depending upon a transponder to avoid a collision doesn't seem like a fool proof method.

sparebulb said:
Not that this is a total pass, but a night visual approach to a short runway can be quite difficult and the crew has better things to do than look 90 degrees out the window for possible traffic when you are 350' above the ground.
...
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't think anyone is laying any blame on the passenger jet.

Tangential story: I have wondered how close they route aircraft and what the standard distances are the last time I flew commercial. The jet I was in was at cruising altitude and speed, and I happened to be looking out the window and saw another jet (probably another 737) pass directly below us at what for me was uncomfortably close. It looked like a 100 feet to me, but probably was further, but no further than 1000 feet. It was about 30 degrees off of a head-on direction. Seemed too close to me. Always wondered if that was an error or intentional.
 
Anti Federalist said:
So, if this is accurate, there were some collision warnings given prior to impact.

it appears that AA5342 was making a slow turn for final, what us small fry would call out as "base leg to final", while the PAT25 maintained course and speed.

https://x.com/rawsalerts/status/1884827088437264387

Click to expand...

25 second warning isn't very helpful unless it is blaring in the actual cockpits.

And so much for the hypothesis since the beginning that the helicopter has it's transponder turned off, and thus was off the radar.
 
Deadly Mid-Air Chaos Over Washington DC!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzQe6W7vcu4
{Pilot Debrief | 30 January 2025}

American Airlines Flight 5342 and a UH-60 Blackhawk helicopter collided over the Potomac River in a very tragic and deadly mid-air disaster. There's a lot of rumors and misinformation out there and my hope is this provides some clarity about what happened. My thoughts and prayers are with the victim's families.

Here's a link to the flight data that I imported into FlySto, which is a FREE service: https://www.flysto.net/logs/h38f5q0...,38.9778,38.6132&t=7715&view=2d&check=1d7zw9r

 
Matt Collins said:
The best explanation so far:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3gD_lnBNu0


Click to expand...


Good video and summary. Mostly what we have already heard, with the following huge revelation:

- The helicopter on this route was not supposed to go above 200 ft. Instead, it climbed up to 350 ft as it came up to the airport, which was where it collided with the passenger jet.

If accurate, it appears we have 2 glaring errors from the helicopter pilot. The pilot was flying on visual and claimed to have the jet in sight. The pilot also climbed and went above his max altitude for that route.

Now that we have 2 compounding errors, this reduced the odds of it being a simple error, and raises the possibility that this was a mass murder-suicide on the part of the helicopter pilot. You heard it here first.
 
Brian4Liberty said:
25 second warning isn't very helpful unless it is blaring in the actual cockpits.

And so much for the hypothesis since the beginning that the helicopter has it's transponder turned off, and thus was off the radar.
Click to expand...

No, it isn't. Still, if I hear "1234 X - Ray Mike turn hard left immediately!" from an ATC controller, I'm going to respond.

A transponder just transmits data and a "squawk" code unique to each aircraft.

Radar will still pick up UH60.
 
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