Creating a Free Town or County

[liberty4vince]

Jailed for speech

Hello, I'm here in support of a man who is working to establish a free county in Costilla County Colorado by becoming sheriff. He could use our support.

 

[Jesse James]

Hello, I'm here in support of a man who is working to establish a free county in Costilla County Colorado by becoming sheriff. He could use our support.

I have always thought this is the best way to get a county libertarian.

 

[reduen]

We basically tried something like this a some years back. (It should be posted around here somewhere..) I made it all the way to the county election commissioners spot but ultimately we failed because people started falling by the wayside when times got tough and we did not get rid of the entire established leadership at the beginning. Our main fault was that we had too much compassion for those who were already established and they stabbed me (us) in the back every chance they got. A lot of time, money and health was the ultimate cost. I learned a lot during the experience but it would take some serious talking to get me to try something like this again. It literally almost killed me.

 

[reduen]

Do a quick search on here for "Stone County Arkansas" and you can find a lot of info about what we went through. (Sorry for the double post here..)

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Osan, I'm going to answer you over in this thread, for continuity and organization's sake. Hope that's OK.

I still cannot for the life of me grok what possessed people to choose NH. Why not, then, NJ?

There was some... "stacking of the deck"... that went on from NH partisans.

The largest block of FSP members at the time of the vote were people *already living* in New Hampshire! You see, the rule was that one could choose which of the ten states to which one was willing to move, down to and including just one single state, and this rule was taken full advantage of by the NH partisans. They had an aggressive effort to sign up as many NH people as possible, even those not willing to move at all! Perhaps especially those. All they had to do was check one box, New Hampshire, and leave the boxes for Wyoming, Vermont, Maine, Delaware, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Idaho blank.

Not exactly in keeping with the true spirit of the project was such behavior, in my view. But.... it led the NH partisans to victory, so who can argue with results? Of course, it depends how one defines victory. You and I take a somewhat more long-term and more ambitious view.

 

[osan]

Osan, I'm going to answer you over in this thread, for continuity and organization's sake. Hope that's OK.


There was some... "stacking of the deck"... that went on from NH partisans.

The largest block of FSP members at the time of the vote were people *already living* in New Hampshire! You see, the rule was that one could choose which of the ten states to which one was willing to move, down to and including just one single state, and this rule was taken full advantage of by the NH partisans. They had an aggressive effort to sign up as many NH people as possible, even those not willing to move at all! Perhaps especially those. All they had to do was check one box, New Hampshire, and leave the boxes for Wyoming, Vermont, Maine, Delaware, North Dakota, South Dakota, Montana, and Idaho blank.

Not exactly in keeping with the true spirit of the project was such behavior, in my view. But.... it led the NH partisans to victory, so who can argue with results? Of course, it depends how one defines victory. You and I take a somewhat more long-term and more ambitious view.

OK, so what we had there was just another instance of rank corruption at work.

Based on that alone, I would call the FSP wholly invalid and unworthy of any consideration. Just my worthless opinion on the matter.

THIS is why humanity is doomed. There aren't enough men of nominal integrity to make plausible even the most meager endeavors, and the individual holds no hope of overcoming the collectivist juggernaut that designs to crush him through the corruption that is its lifeblood.

Assuming the veracity of what you have written here, it turns out the high falutin' FSP was born of nothing better than the common corruption of people with no apparent intent to move; born of people just as full of shit as those against whom they complained. There's a part of me that wants to say "I can't believe it", but I will not allow myself that indulgence. Until this moment, I actually never questioned the personal integrity of the people who ran this program, only to find they were just another raft of low-rent crooks. Holy crap.

I didn't think my faith in humanity could sink any lower. I was wrong.

As to arguing, I can argue those results blindfolded, both hands tied behind my back, and in a coma because they were arrived upon through personal corruption and not the adeptly applied objective considerations of capable and honest human beings. FSP has the stink on it, as far as I am concerned, going a long way to explaining why a liberal stooge-hole like NH was chosen. How immensely disappointing.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Oh, and Alaska.

A lot of people left Alaska unchecked, though.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Assuming the veracity of what you have written here.

Well, in fairness, I have focused on one factor, and there were, as in all contests, many factors that led to victory. There were certainly also people not living in NH who voted for NH as the best choice.

But there were more people not living in Wyoming who nevertheless voted for Wyoming.

In my opinion, the aggressive signing up of NH natives was the decisive factor that put NH over the top. Without those extra hundreds of votes, Wyoming, the second-place choice, would have come out on top.

But, there is someone who will probably be along shortly to give you the pro-NH point of view.

 

[osan]

But, there is someone who will probably be along shortly to give you the pro-NH point of view.

There is no pro-POV for me. Not in the wake of the truth. I would not have chosen NH in any event. But that's just me.

 

[jllundqu]

There is no pro-POV for me. Not in the wake of the truth. I would not have chosen NH in any event. But that's just me.

I have never understood why NH was chosen when there were quite plainly better options on the table. Trying to 'take over' a liberal bastion in New England rather than employ the pioneer spirit and already fertile ground that is the American Midwest, was ignorance on display. I would support a second initiative to create an ACTUAL free state in a place like Wyoming or Idaho... THIS, I would think, would be a cause worthy of my effort and my dollars.

 

[Carlybee]

I have never understood why NH was chosen when there were quite plainly better options on the table. Trying to 'take over' a liberal bastion in New England rather than employ the pioneer spirit and already fertile ground that is the American Midwest, was ignorance on display. I would support a second initiative to create an ACTUAL free state in a place like Wyoming or Idaho... THIS, I would think, would be a cause worthy of my effort and my dollars.

I think there is a WY free state initiative.

 

[jllundqu]

I think there is a WY free state initiative.

Info or website?? That would be awesome

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Info or website?? That would be awesome

"Initiative" makes it sound way more full of life and, well, initiative, than is warranted. The website is here:

http://freestatewyoming.org/

I am speaking as a Founding Associate in the FSW who moved to Wyoming, and even specifically to north-east Wyoming, the target area, as part of the FSW project and then lived there for several years. I know probably most of the people who were involved. Many have since moved back. Some are still there. Currently it's a group of I would offhand-guess a couple dozen.

 

[Jesse James]

my vote is still towards Alaska or a southern state. anybody with me?

 

[Jesse James]

or better yet lets all learn German and move to Liechtenstein. the American dream is over

 

[Origanalist]

"Initiative" makes it sound way more full of life and, well, initiative, than is warranted. The website is here:

http://freestatewyoming.org/

I am speaking as a Founding Associate in the FSW who moved to Wyoming, and even specifically to north-east Wyoming, the target area, as part of the FSW project and then lived there for several years. I know probably most of the people who were involved. Many have since moved back. Some are still there. Currently it's a group of I would offhand-guess a couple dozen.

So, it just fizzled?

 

[osan]

my vote is still towards Alaska or a southern state. anybody with me?

West Virginia would be WAY better than NH, that much I can say for certain. Better climate. Hillbillies get a bad rap, sometimes deservedly, but overall I will take them over the typical denizen of any of the New England states. FAR more decent people on the average, and more open to reason, believe it or not.

Charleston is shrinking - people are leaving in droves. Down something like 10 or 15 thousands in the past decade, now in the ca. of 45K. It is a bastion of comparative liberal infestation, but that could be readily remedied. Of the 12 states in which I have lived in the course of my life, WV is perhaps the most likely to accept actual liberty. The strong Christian base helps there. Strong, but not intrusive.

Morgantown is a den of liberal pansy-werk because of the university. Not sure about Huntington, but I do not get the impression that the Marshall crowd are as much like snowflakes as that at WVU. Not sure of the east panhandle. I cannot imagine Harper's Ferry being anything other than über-liberal, but have not heard one way or t'other.

Southern WV, where we first lived, would be all over free state status. The welfare leeches would riot, but we have plenty of guns and ammo here and could make very clear the choice to them of getting over it or getting out as the only alternatives to getting buried.

Downside: state is notoriously unfriendly to free enterprise, but again I believe this could be remedied within a decade's time, if not sooner. A properly structured and delivered marketing/propaganda campaign could do the trick here. I would start by talking with every preacher in the state. I'd hit the rabbis too - both of them. The path to the hearts of a vast plurality of West Virginians is through their churches. I'm serious as a heart attack, too. Get the preachers on board and you would get the state on. There are so many accordant points between freedom and Christianity that find the right ones for presentation would like shooting fish in a barrel.

Upsides: good climate, especially west of the Appalachians. Close proximity to DC, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Baltimore, Philly. Remote enough to make it a less-than first string target for anything violent - nobody gives a damn about WV, which is about its best feature.

Real estate is dirt-cheap. I have seen houses for sale as little as $5K on the west (shitty) side of Charleston. Get enough "good" people there and the pill whores and other vermin would be swept to other corners.

It is a spectacularly pretty state. Mountains everywhere and lots of water.

I'd do it here if I thought there were any hope of not being the only person working on it. I hold no such hope. Talk is fun. Work is, apparently, not.

 

[tod evans]

Hillbillies get a bad rap

 

[Jesse James]

West Virginia would be WAY better than NH, that much I can say for certain. Better climate. Hillbillies get a bad rap, sometimes deservedly, but overall I will take them over the typical denizen of any of the New England states. FAR more decent people on the average, and more open to reason, believe it or not.

Charleston is shrinking - people are leaving in droves. Down something like 10 or 15 thousands in the past decade, now in the ca. of 45K. It is a bastion of comparative liberal infestation, but that could be readily remedied. Of the 12 states in which I have lived in the course of my life, WV is perhaps the most likely to accept actual liberty. The strong Christian base helps there. Strong, but not intrusive.

Morgantown is a den of liberal pansy-werk because of the university. Not sure about Huntington, but I do not get the impression that the Marshall crowd are as much like snowflakes as that at WVU. Not sure of the east panhandle. I cannot imagine Harper's Ferry being anything other than über-liberal, but have not heard one way or t'other.

Southern WV, where we first lived, would be all over free state status. The welfare leeches would riot, but we have plenty of guns and ammo here and could make very clear the choice to them of getting over it or getting out as the only alternatives to getting buried.

Downside: state is notoriously unfriendly to free enterprise, but again I believe this could be remedied within a decade's time, if not sooner. A properly structured and delivered marketing/propaganda campaign could do the trick here. I would start by talking with every preacher in the state. I'd hit the rabbis too - both of them. The path to the hearts of a vast plurality of West Virginians is through their churches. I'm serious as a heart attack, too. Get the preachers on board and you would get the state on. There are so many accordant points between freedom and Christianity that find the right ones for presentation would like shooting fish in a barrel.

Upsides: good climate, especially west of the Appalachians. Close proximity to DC, Pittsburgh, Columbus, Baltimore, Philly. Remote enough to make it a less-than first string target for anything violent - nobody gives a damn about WV, which is about its best feature.

Real estate is dirt-cheap. I have seen houses for sale as little as $5K on the west ($#@!ty) side of Charleston. Get enough "good" people there and the pill whores and other vermin would be swept to other corners.

It is a spectacularly pretty state. Mountains everywhere and lots of water.

I'd do it here if I thought there were any hope of not being the only person working on it. I hold no such hope. Talk is fun. Work is, apparently, not.

I would be down if West Virginia wasn't founded so some Virginians could stay in the Union!

 

[helmuth_hubener]

So, it just fizzled?

Yep.