Creating a Free Town or County

[helmuth_hubener]

violently resented

Violence is one thing.

Resentment is another.

Resentment can be dealt with, no matter how strongly ("violently") felt, and it will eventually dissipate.

Actual violence can be dealt with too, for that matter. And is less likely.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Anyway, here I'll start the Cash Discussion.

Thank you. It's a good discussion.

Your starting point is that something like 2 million dollars is probably needed. That may be an over-estimate, or it ay be an under-estimate.

I personally do not share your assumption that large housing developments need to be built, in-house, by the project itself. There is more than one way to meet one's housing needs. One can save up $200,000 and build a new house. True. Or one can save up $20,000 and make a down-payment on an already-existing house. Sounds easier. Or one can start renting an already-existing accommodation for $300 per month. Boy, that last one sounds downright doable!

 

[helmuth_hubener]

worthy goals, BUT a guarantee of almost certain defeat if pursued as Agenda Item One.

Here is how democracy works:

Total victory = one more vote than the other side.

That's it! That's the only criterium. If you have one more vote than all of your opponents combined, it seriously does not matter one whit what your agenda is. Whatever your agenda is, you win.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Any other candidate locations?

Any ideas related to how we are going to gather a sufficient number of people to achieve democratic victory?

 

[Keith and stuff]

Any ideas related to how we are going to gather a sufficient number of people to achieve democratic victory?

I'll throw out the common idea of encouraging liberty folks from other parts of New Hampshire to relocate to the only place people are trying something similar to this, Grafton, NH.

Don't worry, I have other ideas too

Find a rich person to buy a motel in a dying town. Hire a lawyer to make sure the motel can be legally converted to apartments. Recruit young, poor, liberty folks to live in the motel for free.

Find a rich person to set-up a container motel for homeless people. That might be the only way a lawyer could convenience a container motel. Recruit liberty homeless people to live in the motel.

Find a rich person to build a large compound in a very rural part of Texas like the idea behind Paulville. Just in case, ban children from the compound. Let poor liberty folks live in the compound for the price of their labor.

Find a pro-liberty WWOOF farmer with a lot of land in a very rural area. Encourage the farmer to seek out only liberty, long-term laborers.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I'll throw out the common idea of encouraging liberty folks from other parts of New Hampshire to relocate to the only place people are trying something similar to this, Grafton, NH.

But how can we find enough of them? That's the rub.

Don't worry, I have other ideas too

He, He, He!

Find a rich person to buy a motel in a dying town. Hire a lawyer to make sure the motel can be legally converted to apartments. Recruit young, poor, liberty folks to live in the motel for free.

This would be quite doable. I could do it. BUT, I don't think it would work. You're just going to attract a lot of marginal people. There's a human factor in the success of any community. If there aren't any high-quality people living there, it isn't going to magically become prosperous and awesome.

Find a rich person to set-up a container motel for homeless people. That might be the only way a lawyer could convenience a container motel. Recruit liberty homeless people to live in the motel.

Yes, well,... as you can imagine, I find this even further down the wrong path.

Find a rich person to build a large compound in a very rural part of Texas like the idea behind Paulville. Just in case, ban children from the compound. Let poor liberty folks live in the compound for the price of their labor.

A rich person is not needed for this. Worthless rural land is cheap. You'd just get together a group of mover-investors, similar to what Pericles and his group are doing.

Find a pro-liberty WWOOF farmer with a lot of land in a very rural area. Encourage the farmer to seek out only liberty, long-term laborers.

World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms. OK, I guess this would be kind of a hippie-commune flavor thing, while the previous would be more a cowboy-commune thing.

 

[Tod]

A New Hampshire resident recently lamented that there is a dire shortage of money coming into the state with Free-Staters (most people are either wage slaves or in some cases, welfare recipients). Is that true?

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Are there any places where property taxes are fully directed to the county government , with none going to state government?

 

[Keith and stuff]

World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms. OK, I guess this would be kind of a hippie-commune flavor thing, while the previous would be more a cowboy-commune thing.

The idea is that someone find/convert a WWOOF farm owner that is pro-liberty. The farmer agrees to only let pro-liberty folks work on the farm. The farmer drives them to government meetings, elections...

Many WWOOF farms exist in the US. https://www.facebook.com/groups/229551257249475/

 

[helmuth_hubener]

The idea is that someone find/convert a WWOOF farm owner that is pro-liberty. The farmer agrees to only let pro-liberty folks work on the farm. The farmer drives them to government meetings, elections...

Like I say, sounds like hippy camp to me. Certainly there is a demographic in the liberty movement to whom that would appeal. I'm not saying it's a bad idea.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

A New Hampshire resident recently lamented that there is a dire shortage of money coming into the state with Free-Staters (most people are either wage slaves or in some cases, welfare recipients). Is that true?

There is probably some truth to it. Most Americans earn wages, and many are on welfare, and both camps likely include many "free staters."

Are there any places where property taxes are fully directed to the county government , with none going to state government?

Not that I know of. However, I would say the local portion is usually bigger. If you can privatize the town or county, you've gone a long, long, long way to privatizing and thus liberating your everyday life.

 

[Keith and stuff]

A New Hampshire resident recently lamented that there is a dire shortage of money coming into the state with Free-Staters (most people are either wage slaves or in some cases, welfare recipients). Is that true?

Lol. Haters gonna hate. If that is true, NH voters must love to elect poor people because we have been winning elections like gangbusters. Free staters have won too many elections to keep track. It is well over 100, though

Are there any places where property taxes are fully directed to the county government , with none going to state government?

The property tax bill either breaks down into municipal/county/school/state school sections or in some places, there is no tax bill because there are no property taxes.

The state school section doesn't go to the state. A formula is used, and it is sent to school districts around the state. The state government controls the formula. Sen. Shaheen put this in place when she was the governor of NH. She tried to put a sales tax in place, people told her WTF, so she did this instead. It allows the NH state government to pretend that it pays for a huge section of the government k-12 schools, when it is actually local property taxes, raised by local governments, and spent by local governments.

To answer your question, no property tax money goes to the state. As for the county government, that's typically the smallest section of the property tax bill. The counties do very little so they need very little money to operate. The NH system is very local when it comes to taxes and spending. Towns and cities are where the purse strings are at. And in towns, the voters control the purse strings because they literally control how much the town spends/taxes, unlike almost every other state.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Bump.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Bump.

 

[RonPaulIsGreat]

This u-haul is getting really expensive, I packed up everything and have been waiting to go for months! Can someone tell me the destination to libertarian paradise please.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

This u-haul is getting really expensive, I packed up everything and have been waiting to go for months! Can someone tell me the destination to libertarian paradise please.

Destinations abound, but interested migrants seem scarce. At least on RPF.

The idea is very doable, but it requires a significant number of strongly committed, strongly libertarian individuals and families.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Secession Begins at Home
Jeff Deist


​

"Imagine what a committed, coordinated libertarian base could achieve in America! 10 percent of the US population, or roughly thirty-two million people, would be an unstoppable force of nonviolent withdrawal from the federal leviathan."

First, let's try finding 32.

Then, maybe 320.

First, let's try liberating a small town or county.

Then, much later, maybe we can realistically think about liberating the whole continent.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Bump.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I still think this is a highly promising idea.

 

[Jesse James]

I'm in but it has to be in the South or Alaska

 

[jllundqu]

Again I would vote for somewhere in the Midwest/Northwest.... flyover country, as it were.

Confining oneself to the jam-packed northeast was never a smart move. I think enough liberty lovers already live in various places in the center of the country and would more easily relocate to a more centered destination than NH. Hell there's already a massive liberty/prepper community called the American Redoubt. If there were an organized effort to have a freestateproject in the mid/northwest??? Shit you'd have massive influence over the entire state before too long. States like Wyoming, Idaho, etc have very small populations and LOOOOOOOOTS OF LAND.