Creating a Free Town or County

[helmuth_hubener]

Kim dotcom lives in New Zealand.

It'd be very difficult to move to new zealand. The cheapest method would be, I guess to sell everything, convert to bitcoin, and buy new stuff upon landing. I doubt they just let anyone just show up and proclaim citizenship as well.

1. Shipping a cube is not that complicated, nor expensive. I mean, it's kind of expensive, of course, but so is moving cross-country with a moving truck company.
2. You don't have to convert to bitcoin; indeed I see no reason to for this. Just convert to what we call "money". It's not that complicated.
3. You don't have to be a citizen to move there. You just get a visa. It's not that complicated.

 

[rg17]

No taxes, no police, very small government, no drug laws, no wars, completely free market, private healthcare and no ridiculous licenses and much more!

 

[Carlybee]

Doesn't New Zealand have very strict immigration laws?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Doesn't New Zealand have very strict immigration laws?

I don't know; doesn't look too bad. There's a nice tool at http://nzready.immigration.govt.nz to give you a checklist. They let in about 60,000 people a year. They give preference to people with certain skills in shortage and to investors (min. $2.5 mil). They require a minimum aptitude at English, as determined by a test.

Plus, if you're from the USA, you can just go there, no visa required whatsoever, for up to three months. Probably easier once you're there and have an income and home and are settled somewhat to sort out how to get a residency visa. A residency visa, according to the gov't web site, is somewhat harder to get than other kinds, but it also means you can stay indefinitely -- that is, forever. As long as you like.

Idiom, I am sure you can shed more light on this. How draconian are the immigration laws? As skilled, educated, English-speaking American citizens, is it going to be pretty easy to get in?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

No taxes, no police, very small government, no drug laws, no wars, completely free market, private healthcare and no ridiculous licenses and much more!

RG, are you willing to relocate you and your family to someplace where something like this (no taxes, small gov't, etc.) could actually be implemented?

 

[rg17]

RG, are you willing to relocate you and your family to someplace where something like this (no taxes, small gov't, etc.) could actually be implemented?

WE could start here in America.

 

[rg17]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_JfHLs2Nc4&list=PL57F6BB69652CE395&index=14

This would be our National Anthem!

 

[helmuth_hubener]

WE could start here in America.

But not just anywhere in America, my friend. We can't tackle the entire country (most of a large continent!) at once. Unless, that is, you have some sort of realistic plan to do so. I think you don't. I certainly don't. But what we can do is that many of us could move to one small area, and by so concentrating ourselves give ourselves the ability to implement our desired policy -- Freedom! -- in that one small area.

So, would you be willing to relocate yourself and your family in such a way, in order to participate in a plan to actually achieve your stated goals of freedom?

 

[rg17]

But not just anywhere in America, my friend. We can't tackle the entire country (most of a large continent!) at once. Unless, that is, you have some sort of realistic plan to do so. I think you don't. I certainly don't. But what we can do is that many of us could move to one small area, and by so concentrating ourselves give ourselves the ability to implement our desired policy -- Freedom! -- in that one small area.

So, would you be willing to relocate yourself and your family in such a way, in order to participate in a plan to actually achieve your stated goals of freedom?

No, other countries are just as bad or even worse than America (U.S). Europe has no gun rights gov controls all of your life and super high taxes!

 

[helmuth_hubener]

No, other countries are just as bad or even worse than America (U.S). Europe has no gun rights gov controls all of your life and super high taxes!

You aren't following me, RG. New Zealand is just one possibility. If you will read the rest of the thread, you will see that the main thread is toward options such as:

Kaluapapa, Molokai, Hawaii
Grafton, New Hampshire
Aladdin, Wyoming
Loving, Texas
Arizona
Alaska
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Keene, New Hampshire

These are all places in the United States of America. They are all relatively small places where a group of 1,000 could effect a real political change for freedom.

So my question is: Are you one of the 1,000?

I like the Lord of the Rings music, by the way. Maybe you could write some words to it! An anthem needs words!

 

[rg17]

Wyoming would work because of its lowest population in the country it would make the biggest difference.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Its population still is not low enough. Half a million people in Wyoming! Way, way, way too many.

A whole state is simply too much. We need, in my opinion, to be more focused. Like a laser beam. We could, very realistically, take on a small town or small county. Probably, less than 1,000 would be ideal. We come in, it's a done deal. Success is built in to the design of the plan. Though a case could be made for trying in a more populous place, maybe 5,000 or even up to 10,000. But it would be a big risk, and I'm not sure there are any advantages that would outweigh the disadvantages.

 

[rg17]

Its population still is not low enough. Half a million people in Wyoming! Way, way, way too many.

A whole state is simply too much. We need, in my opinion, to be more focused. Like a laser beam. We could, very realistically, take on a small town or small county. Probably, less than 1,000 would be ideal. We come in, it's a done deal. Success is built in to the design of the plan. Though a case could be made for trying in a more populous place, maybe 5,000 or even up to 10,000. But it would be a big risk, and I'm not sure there are any advantages that would outweigh the disadvantages.

Western South Dakota would definitely work especially Hot Springs,South Dakota, Pop only 3,514.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

It's a nice area!

Or what about Hill City or Keystone?

Closer to civilization (Rapid), but still beautiful.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Just wanted to repost ZENemy's wonderful post. This is the sentiment that I like to imagine is alight in the hearts of thousands of libertarians. I do believe that we can truly do something that would harness it, and bring our ideas to life in the real world.

But I cannot do it alone. I need a co-founder.

So, does anyone else understand my vision and feel the same way, to the extent they want to do something about it?


From ZENemy:

I agree.

I feel that if we are ever to move forward in a somewhat focused effort that we first must collect those that are ready to stop complaining, bitching and telling everyone how it "cant be done" or "its been done before".

Its a good thing that its been done before, good, we have tons of mistakes that we do not have to make by learning from past examples.

I like the idea of starting small...something like moving into and creating the idea of "liberty" apartment complexes all over the country. Maybe like a traveling freestateproject? I know this is not the greatest idea but its just something Ive randomly thought about, I think whats most important is for local like minded people to get together IN REAL LIFE and discuss these idea. Just packing 30 people into a room in REAL life, not in a damn chat window. I feel flesh and blood discussions in one night can do a lot more than years of back and forth on facebook or other social sites.

What I would love to see is people to stop saying "that will never work...you are wasting your time" and start saying "that's gonna be tough but we should make it work and can make it work" I feel that many people miss how important just TALKING about a move like this is. Once we are all talking about it and have agreed that we are going to make it work then NOTHING can stop us.​

 

[RonPaulIsGreat]

Well, the first thing any group wanting to form a community would have to address is.....

Cold Hard Cash. I've seen no one address this in a real way.

So, a 1000 people move to a small town, they will not have the housing for them, so before they could even move, housing would have to be built. If moving to a 1000 sized town that would mean housing be built for like 750 people or more if excluding kids and just counting adults in the 1000. So, what's the cost to build apartments and or housing for 750+ people? That would have to be raised day 1. Otherwise it'd seem to me that option would be dead on arrival.

It's millions of dollars up front, and sure people could sell their old house after the move, but you'd still need cash before then, and to be blunt about it, alot of liberty lovers are flat broke, just like most of the general population. So, it'd either largely be funded by a minority, or financed via a bank. However going in debt to a bank seems somehow against the whole freedom living concept.

Anyway, here I'll start the Cash Discussion.

I could come up with 30K in a week for a real project.
I also bring my own income. So, don't need to worry about a job in the area, just need internet access.

So, just need 1,970,000 more to start a real discussion.

 

[invisible]

$30k would buy an awfully nice chunk of raw land in a prime area of OK, well away from any fracking activity, and within reasonable distance from population centers although it is otherwise pretty isolated and very rural. And even within that area, I know of a town that does have plenty of available housing: an unincorporated town, with no town government, and therefore no building codes, zoning, permits, or other municipal laws or taxes. $30k would probably buy most of that town. And yes, there is supposedly decent internet access available in that area, according to my research.

 

[RonPaulIsGreat]

$30k would buy an awfully nice chunk of raw land in a prime area of OK, well away from any fracking activity, and within reasonable distance from population centers although it is otherwise pretty isolated and very rural. And even within that area, I know of a town that does have plenty of available housing: an unincorporated town, with no town government, and therefore no building codes, zoning, permits, or other municipal laws or taxes. $30k would probably buy most of that town. And yes, there is supposedly decent internet access available in that area, according to my research.

30K is enough to buy a good chunk of land, or possibly a few rehab houses in a struggling area. It's no where near enough to get a community going though. 30K from 30 people, then you can start to get somewhere, then a few contractors to refurb those houses, and enough purchasing power to buy bulk, Community equipment, etc..

 

[paleocon1]

This has been discussed before. I want to bring it up again and see how much interest there still is.

If there are about 1,000 liberty-lovers willing to relocate, we could all relocate to a town or county of population 1,000 or so and join with the locals to move the town or county closer to liberty.

Who would be interested and willing to do such a thing?

I think the arrival of a horde of outsiders looking to establish their 'zion' would be violently resented anywhere.If the locals wanted what you want- they would already have it.

 

[paleocon1]

..................the first central plank of one's platform should be: one must
attempt to restrict the right to vote on local taxes, in particular on property taxes
and regulations, to property and real estate owners. Only property owners must be
permitted to vote, and their vote is not equal, but in accordance with the value of
the equity owned, and the amount of taxes paid. That is, similar to what Lew
Rockwell already explained has happened in some places in California.

Further, all public employees — teachers, judges, policemen — and all welfare
recipients, must be excluded from voting on local taxes and local regulation
matters. These people are being paid out of taxes and should have no say
whatsoever how high these taxes are. ....................................

worthy goals, BUT a guarantee of almost certain defeat if pursued as Agenda Item One.

A goal equally valuable and much easier for which to gather support would be to either disarm local cops or to outright abolish the PD. Success in this effort and the Reality of no harm done to ordinary folk would build momentum for next steps.