Creating a Free Town or County

[PRB]

Why is it that some of you want to associate me with unsavory people? People with which I have nothing to do? What is the purpose of that?

what you say?

 

[PRB]

PRB's purpose here is trolling. He has been a liberal troll right from the start. Just take a look at his posting history, including the thread where you and I had a conversation about him. He gets another neg rep from me. I recommend a neg rep party for him.

what about my posting history makes me a liberal?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

what you say?

I am saying: what is the purpose of your post?

 

[PRB]

I am saying: what is the purpose of your post?

I heard of a town which people tried to "take over due to a small population, for their own political purpose" so I posted that.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Thanks.

You're too late, though. Keith already tried smearing me by association to these neo-Nazis. And then to the bizarre and disturbing events of Jonestown by replying to 56k. You have to get up pretty early in the morning to beat Keith to something like this.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Thanks.

You're too late, though. Keith already tried smearing me by association to these neo-Nazis. And then to the bizarre and disturbing events of Jonestown by replying to 56k. You have to get up pretty early in the morning to beat Keith to something like this.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to smear you. Saying take over was a smear that you put on yourself. I was trying to show you why it is a smear. That those neo-Nazis did was try to take over a small town. It backfired and they went to jail. Now the town is thinking of ending it's corporate charter to make sure that it will be impossible for outsiders with guns to take them over.

If you want, I will ask a moderator to delete my reply to Jonestown. I honestly didn't know what the person was talking about. There have been so many failed take over ideas, it is hard to keep up with all of them

Thankfully you haven't used your real name in relation to any of this. Still, by calling it a take over in your first post, you are still swearing the idea, IMO.

 

[Keith and stuff]

I heard of a town which people tried to "take over due to a small population, for their own political purpose" so I posted that.

Seems like a rational reason to post it, IMO.

 

[PRB]

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to smear you. Saying take over was a smear that you put on yourself. I was trying to show you why it is a smear. That those neo-Nazis did was try to take over a small town. It backfired and they went to jail. Now the town is thinking of ending it's corporate charter to make sure that it will be impossible for outsiders with guns to take them over.

If you want, I will ask a moderator to delete my reply to Jonestown. I honestly didn't know what the person was talking about. There have been so many failed take over ideas, it is hard to keep up with all of them

Thankfully you haven't used your real name in relation to any of this. Still, by calling it a take over in your first post, you are still swearing the idea, IMO.

what did they go to jail for? that I was never clear on.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I'm sorry.

Hey, no hard feelings!

I'm not trying to smear you. Saying take over was a smear that you put on yourself. I was trying to show you why it is a smear.

Well then why not just say that, like TonySutton did? Come on, you and I have been on these forums a long time. I know that your number 1 priority is convincing people to move to New Hampshire. My thread seemed like it might constitute a threat to that agenda. It's only fair (and predictable) that you would descend on it to attack it however you could. No hard feelings; no problem. I just prefer that the thread keep moving in a more productive direction, instead of Koolaid and neo-Nazis.

That those neo-Nazis did was try to take over a small town. It backfired and they went to jail. Now the town is thinking of ending it's corporate charter to make sure that it will be impossible for outsiders with guns to take them over.

1. They were neo-Nazis
2. They were crazy
3. They were living in non-first-world conditions -- no plumbing, etc.
4. These were very marginal people -- even by the standards of other neo-Nazis!

They were just weird, marginal people. Same thing with Zach Bass.

I am not interested in doing some strange, bizarre, kooky thing. I am not interested in setting up hippy camp. Even some of the stuff in Keene -- the communal house where people can sleep on the couch or whatever -- is a bit too much like hippy camp for me.

There are high-quality, successful people who believe in libertarian ideas. Getting together and implementing a geographical concentration strategy, wherein we join with the locals to move the county or town closer to liberty, is a reasonable idea. So, we are discussing it. It's worth discussing.

Thankfully you haven't used your real name in relation to any of this. Still, by calling it a take over in your first post, you are still smearing the idea, IMO.

Taking over is exactly what the FSP is doing, exactly what the FSP is all about. If you are that hung up about verbiage, though, perhaps other lesser persons will be, too. I will change my first post.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

what did they go to jail for? that I was never clear on.

For going out on the town waving their rifles around and shouting. Looking like they were out to make trouble. They were also drunk, I believe.

This is just a crazy, crazy guy, and his most crazy, loony friends. No semi-normal person would want to associate with him. Even other neo-Nazis don't want to associate with him.

 

[PRB]

For going out on the town waving their rifles around and shouting. Looking like they were out to make trouble. They were also drunk, I believe.

This is just a crazy, crazy guy, and his most crazy, loony friends. No semi-normal person would want to associate with him. Even other neo-Nazis don't want to associate with him.

crazy as they may be, they never hurt anybody, did they? you don't need to associate with them, but unless they committed any actual crimes, don't they deserve SOME sympathy for being the victims of overreaching government?

 

[helmuth_hubener]

crazy as they may be, they never hurt anybody, did they? you don't need to associate with them, but unless they committed any actual crimes, don't they deserve SOME sympathy for being the victims of overreaching government?

I have only so much sympathy to go around.

 

[Keith and stuff]

what did they go to jail for? that I was never clear on.

It looks like several small things. Terrorizing was a term that was used. There is a good chance they went to jail because they were crazy people that wanted to move to a small town to take it over and that highly pissed off the locals. So the locals made sure the people went to jail. I suspect many people will gladly break the law to stop outsiders from taking over a town that they consider to be their town, especially in a tightly nit small community where new movers are generally vetted and not trusted by the locals anyway.

Even in Grafton, NH where the movers have explained over and over again that the new movers aren't in anyway trying to take over (because they aren't), there have been issues. For example, several people were investigated for voter fraud (which obviously they didn't commit) to waste time and scare people. It wasted a lot of time. There was also an effort to create zoning laws but that too failed.

Now imaging if the new movers with the expressed goal of taking over move to a small country town with a shrinking population and the new movers like to get drunk, frequently open carry and have what many people consider extreme ideas... Even if race wasn't an issue, it will likely still get many in the town and near-by towns to organize against them.

 

[PRB]

I have only so much sympathy to go around.

can't argue with that. in your case, you have your own fight.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Pericles was trying to set up a Free Community out in West Texas a while back. Was anyone involved? Pericles, could you give us the detailed story on how things played out with that? I think it would be very useful.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?367289-Free-Community-Project/

 

[Keith and stuff]

crazy as they may be, they never hurt anybody, did they? you don't need to associate with them, but unless they committed any actual crimes, don't they deserve SOME sympathy for being the victims of overreaching government?

The overreaching government of the community they moved to is a common and expected human reaction. They should have known they were be hated and people what try to do what it takes to control them via the government and other methods. You just don't try to take people over. it causes nothing but problems.

 

[PRB]

It looks like several small things. Terrorizing was a term that was used. There is a good chance they went to jail because they were crazy people that wanted to move to a small town to take it over and that highly pissed off the locals. So the locals made sure the people went to jail. I suspect many people will gladly break the law to stop outsiders from taking over a town that they consider to be their town, especially in a tightly nit small community where new movers are generally vetted and not trusted by the locals anyway.

Even in Grafton, NH where the movers have explained over and over again that the new movers aren't in anyway trying to take over (because they aren't), there have been issues. For example, several people were investigated for voter fraud (which obviously they didn't commit) to waste time and scare people. It wasted a lot of time. There was also an effort to create zoning laws but that too failed.

Now imaging if the new movers with the expressed goal of taking over move to a small country town with a shrinking population and the new movers like to get drunk, frequently open carry and have what many people consider extreme ideas... Even if race wasn't an issue, it will likely still get many in the town and near-by towns to organize against them.

the power of local communities it doesn't surprise me at all if it was some type of entrapment plus crazy loonies being provoked into small petty crimes.

I don't know how powerful Detroit would be to stop outsiders though

 

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

what about my posting history makes me a liberal?

Playing dumb again. Right on cue. At least you didn't deny being a troll, but I'll wait on that in your next post.

 

[Keith and stuff]

Hey, no hard feelings!
Taking over is exactly what the FSP is doing, exactly what the FSP is all about. If you are that hung up about verbiage, though, perhaps other lesser persons will be, too. I will change my first post.

The FSP has never been about taking over. In fact, idea that it could be about that is absurd. How could 20,000 people take over 1.3+ million people? It a fight, all 20,000 would be killed. In the voting booth, there were over 700,000 voters in NH in 2008. How many will there be in 2020? Plus, the law in NH currently (thanks to a recent judicial ruling) anyone that is able to vote in any of the 50 states also able to vote in NH. All you have to do is be in NH on election day and swear that you intend to move to NH. You can change your mind the next day. But anyway, the FSP isn't even out just trying to recruit people that are allowed to vote, even. Heck, some free staters don't vote or very rarely vote anyone.

The whole idea of the Free State Project is for liberty activists to do what they want here. Be it media creation, jury rights, charity to help poor people so they have to rely so much on government, peace religious practices, prepping and so on. Here is the Statement of Intent that free staters agree to, if there is any confusion.

I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the State of New Hampshire within 5 years after 20,000 Participants have signed up. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of individuals' life, liberty, and property.

So the FSP is about trying to find 20,000 people to sign up and move to NH. Once the people move to NH, it's up to them on what they do. The FSP is about PorcFest and Liberty Forum and other things to get the 20,000 signers. It isn't a political organization. In is a charity organization designed to help find 20,000 liberty people to improve their lives by moving to the best state with the highest quality of life in the nation. If the FSP had anything to do with what you said, the IRS wouldn't consider it a charity.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

The FSP has never been about taking over.

Right.

It is about joining with the locals to move things closer to liberty, exactly as my proposed project is.

How could 20,000 people take over 1.3+ million people?

You answer your own question later in your post.