CPAC - Straw Poll Today (update: Rand Paul wins!)

[abacabb]

His mother was a US citizen and father a Cuban refugee and legal permanent resident of the US at the time of his birth. They were working in Canada at the time. He was born with the right, by birth, to be a US citizen.

By Canadian law, was he a citizen of their country?

If so, he's natural born Canadian and naturalized US.

 

[NY-Dano]

By Canadian law, was he a citizen of their country?

If so, he's natural born Canadian and naturalized US.

Doesn't work that way. All that matters is that he had to right to be a US citizen as a birthright.

 

[torchbearer]

By Canadian law, was he a citizen of their country?

If so, he's natural born Canadian and naturalized US.

by being born in Canada, makes him naturally born there. its is stating the obvious. he retained legal citizen status of his parents, but that doesn't make him naturally born here also.

 

[abacabb]

Doesn't work that way. All that matters is that he had to right to be a US citizen as a birthright.

No, I think it's crazy that he's eligible to run for President of both countries. There's a reason the U.S. constitution says "natural born." You can't be an American and other dude with a U.S. work authorization having a baby in Timbuktu, and that child is natural born US.

 

[abacabb]

by being born in Canada, makes him naturally born there. its is stating the obvious. he retained legal citizen status of his parents, but that doesn't make him naturally born here also.

Exactly. I'd argue McCain wasn't natural born because by US law the time of his birth, he was not recognized as a U.S. citizen.

 

[torchbearer]

Exactly. I'd argue McCain wasn't natural born because by US law the time of his birth, he was not recognized as a U.S. citizen.

question- being born in a u.s. territory makes you a natural born citizen? some could make the argument that embassies and bases are u.s. territory. but then, if its requires being born in a state of the u.s. which is specific, then McCain would not be eligible.

 

[NY-Dano]

8 USC § 1401
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person;
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.
LII has no control over and does not endorse any external Internet site that contains links to or references LII.

Unfortunately, the Constitution itself does not define the term and the courts haven't ruled on it, so this is the best there is.

 

[abacabb]

question- being born in a u.s. territory makes you a natural born citizen? some could make the argument that embassies and bases are u.s. territory. but then, if its requires being born in a state of the u.s. which is specific, then McCain would not be eligible.

That'd be my opinion. Being born somewhere the U.S. occupies for example is different than america.

 

[abacabb]

Unfortunately, the Constitution itself does not define the term and the courts haven't ruled on it, so this is the best there is.

I'd imagine that the founders thought it was obvious that natural born meant U.S. soil, not British soil or anywhere else.

 

[NY-Dano]

I'd imagine that the founders thought it was obvious that natural born meant U.S. soil, not British soil or anywhere else.

Of they could have thought that applied to individuals 'under the jurisdiction of' the US.

Anyhow... back to the point of this thread. I expect a RANDSLIDE

 

[torchbearer]

Of they could have thought that applied to individuals 'under the jurisdiction of' the US.

Anyhow... back to the point of this thread. I expect a RANDSLIDE

the people of that era didn't think in terms like 'the United States'. they thought in terms like 'these united states'.
you were under the jurisdiction of your state. you were a citizen of your state.
the only citizens of the u.s. would later be freed slaves and immigrants.

 

[speciallyblend]

Enter Randman, Liberty Served live on a platter, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CD-E-LDc384

 

[PatriotOne]

Mia Love speaking at CPAC now for those who are interested.

 

[TomtheTinker]

Miss mia mia mia love

 

[sailingaway]

Is that a problem with CPAC or are you thinking of the Iowa straw poll?

It happened at cpac too.

 

[sailingaway]

Doesn't work that way. All that matters is that he had to right to be a US citizen as a birthright.

That seems to be the way courts will interpret it now, but long ago you had to have had both your parents born here to be 'natural born' according to the dicta of an archaic case. I've seen it cited for the proposition that people who don't have 'born US citizen' parents are US citizens at birth but not natural born.

I agree with you that the US Supreme court at this point is unlikely to rule that way.

 

[PatriotOne]

Panel getting ready to talk about Rand Paul. Playing Rands fillibuster and McCains response. Talking about that now.

 

[PatriotOne]

I think Senator Rand Paul is one of the most fascinating people in politics.

 

[PatriotOne]

This is good about Rand. Listen in.....

http://nation.foxnews.com/cpac-2013/...13-live-stream

 

[PatriotOne]

Comparing Ron and Rand.