Cliven Bundy is a welfare rancher and is not a friend of Liberty

[William Tell]

Check this out guys:

 

[Dr.3D]

Check this out guys:

How is it, every state west of Texas has so much "government land" in it? What happened to cause that?

 

[dannno]

How is it, every state west of Texas has so much "government land" in it? What happened to cause that?

That's actually a big part of the Bundy discussion as a whole.

What happened was back in the 1800s the govt. tried to get people to move out west because there was all this free grazing land for cattle.. but what they would do, customarily (for some unknown reason??), is they would all share the grazing land because there was so much of it and they would just mark their cattle.. when they became a state, the land became state owned land for the purpose of grazing cattle. Of course eventually they had problems with land of the commons, and so the government came in to resolve disputes. Then eventually the federal govt. decided to take that role, and that is in part why the BLM was created.

So the land was state owned, (or federally owned, or state owned then taken over by the feds eventually, legally or illegally) but INTENDED as grazing land for the ranchers who were promised it if they would move out there. What should have happened is they should have at some point just split up the grazing land among the ranchers by how many cattle they had or something, and then let the ranchers decide if they want to continue to share the land, use just their portion, sell their portion, etc..

 

[Acala]

How is it, every state west of Texas has so much "government land" in it? What happened to cause that?

I think it was just that those States were still very sparsely settled when the Feds got around to making their major land grab so there was much more unclaimed land for them to grab.

 

[otherone]

All of Bundy's claims to the land have been reviewed by the Federal courts and all such arguments have been rejected. Therefore...

DERP DERP DERP DERP

Fed Rule courts rule for Fed Rule gub'ment?

Whaaaaaaa?

 

[Anti Federalist]

Gowned Clowns.

DERP DERP DERP DERP

Fed Rule courts rule for Fed Rule gub'ment?

Whaaaaaaa?

 

[pcosmar]

The great Will Grigg weighs in on this in an interview with Scott Horton.

Wait a minute..
Someone posted that only one black guy was at the ranch (Total bullshit)..

And this makes at least 5 I know of (and I suspect there are some I do not know of)

 

[nobody's_hero]

Please stop forgetting:

BUNDY IS THE LAST RANCHER IN CLARK COUNTY, NEVADA.

All the other ranchers paid those stupid-ass 'grazing fees' until they threw in the towel because of the regulatory bullshit that the funds helped create.

That's like going around to all these small businesses and telling them they'd better pay for their employee's health insurance plans even though the business was too small to bear that burden before and survive, and when the business closes its doors due to regulation, too bad, right? And suppose another business owner sees all these businesses collapsing and says he won't comply, well now everyone's bitching "oh we got ourselves a freeloader." I mean, really? W.T.F.?

 

[pcosmar]

How is it, every state west of Texas has so much "government land" in it? What happened to cause that?

Just guessing,, The Bankers War. (otherwise known as the Civil War.) And the Federal overreach that has continued since.

 

[Deborah K]

Please stop forgetting:

BUNDY IS THE LAST RANCHER IN CLARK COUNTY, NEVADA.

All the other ranchers paid those stupid-ass 'grazing fees' until they threw in the towel because of the regulatory bullshit that the funds helped create.

That's like going around to all these small businesses and telling them they'd better pay for their employee's health insurance plans even though the business was too small to bear that burden before and survive, and when the business closes its doors due to regulation, too bad, right? And suppose another business owner sees all these businesses collapsing and says he won't comply, well now everyone's bitching "oh we got ourselves a freeloader." I mean, really? W.T.F.?

Good analogy.

 

[Intoxiklown]

So now if the same thing happened to me, how many people will support me in my quest to continue hunting on said land and protect me from getting locked up?

I have never gotten a hunting or fishing permit. We always hunted on our own land though, and game wardens simply did not come on it. Of course, we kept it locked up and gated.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

Even Judge Napolitano stated that this should of never been a Federal Court case... all claims and issues should of been within the state of Nevada and the residents. That's where the mistake was made... the very first mistake that leads to control by the dictatorial powers 2500 miles away.

BTW, all these BLM, DOI, and federal agency land grabs, are turning into "Federal Profiteering for Politicians, Special Interest Groups, Corporations, and Fascist Government" at the expense of Lying and stealing from the local state people. A prefect example of dictatorial central concentrated powers, taking from the local people and giving it for "GAINS" to another group of people/corporation/political group-party/politician.

It's always under the bullshit headline of the "Greater Good of the majority" over that of the individual... this is absolutely against what the U.S. Constitution stands for and protects; the freedoms, beliefs, and liberties of the individual, over the collectivism, powerful special interest, the government 'STATIST CON GAME'.... which today has been proven to be completely; bought, bribed, and full of RICO.

 

[VegasPatriot]

Maybe the OP (and those that agree with op) should read the constitution.

Stewart Rhodes explains starting at 2:30 in this video:

http://youtu.be/r0udaojwmIc?t=2m31s

 

[austin944]

So, I'm with you when you say that neither Bundy nor the feds should own the land, but I don't agree that the Constitution supposedly gives Congress the right to do whatever it wants with the land (are you contradicting yourself here, or am I just misunderstanding you?).

There are two different questions here, and you can answer each question differently and still have a consistent and liberty-minded view on this matter:

1) Who has legal claim to the disputed land?
2) Who should own the land?

I only brought up the US Constitution to show that the Federal government has more legal claim to the land than Cliven Bundy. I'm not terribly interested in showing that the government has the ultimate legal claim to the land.

You can argue that you don't recognize the Constitution, or feel that the Indians have more legal claim to the land than anyone else, and I'm not terribly interested in quarreling over those points. But even with those arguments, I don't see how Bundy has any property rights here.

Just because the government may be wrong in this matter does not mean that Bundy is right.

Bundy got a sweet-heart deal with the government for grazing his cattle, and now he's complaining because the government will no longer give him that deal. Well boo-hoo! I feel as much sympathy for the Wall Street bankers and the Automakers who got sweet-heart bailout deals. They had no right to those sweet-heart deals in the first place at taxpayer expense. A smart business man would not rely on welfare hand-outs to keep his business profitable.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

Cliven Bundy holds, charitably, confused views on government and property rights, but he's not a welfare case, anymore than someone who finds ways to avoid tax payments is some sort of thief.

 

[austin944]

FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE - BUNDY RANGE WAR - 4-25-14
And the government dole which many people in America are on, and have been for much of their lives, is dehumanizing and degrading. It takes away incentive to work and self respect. Eventually a person on the dole becomes a ward of the government, because his only source of income is a dole from the government. Once the government has you in that position, you are its slave.

A welfare deadbeat complaining about welfare.

 

[BucksforPaul]

fuck the fees....geezus...are there really this many fuck tards in the Liberty movement, or are we just being blessed by FBI operatives playing on discussion forums?...makes me go hmmmmm..

I would say probably a little of both.

 

[Deborah K]

A welfare deadbeat complaining about welfare.

He's always been willing to pay grazing fees to the State of Nevada. They wanted him to sign an agreement limiting his ability to graze and he refused, his family has been on that land since 1873, long before the BLM existed. The BLM, which is an unconstitutional federal "authority". Show where in the enumerated powers of the Federal gov't they have a right to land-grab via a bureaucracy like the BLM?

Do you believe in the people's right to a redress of grievances? Do you believe in the people's right to civil disobedience? Quit calling him a welfare deadbeat. You're just showing your ignorance about the issue at hand.

 

[austin944]

You are wrong.
He was willing to pay a fee for grazing.. But was required to sign an agreement that would limit him out of business.

He refused to sign such a contract. And they refused to take his payment.

If you believe that the government is obligated to keep his business profitable, then why not require the government to keep Wall Street banks profitable by giving them low-interest loans or bail-out money at taxpayer expense?

He could have moved his cattle to another chunk of land that he bought. He did not, and wants to continue to mooch from the government dole.

 

[otherone]

Quit calling him a welfare deadbeat. You're just showing your ignorance about the issue at hand.

Just another statist who thinks sodomy is just, so long as everyone is bending over.