Cliven Bundy is a welfare rancher and is not a friend of Liberty

[twomp]

Remember how we read about the Government sending out trolls to internet forums to try and change public perception? Can you spot them in this thread? There seems to be quite a few showing on our forums the last few days. Here's a hint: They start out talking about how they support and are a part of the liberty movement then the end their rant by taking the government's side on issues.

 

[klamath]

Why am I having to pay taxes to pay for the government agents to guard THEIR land? Take care of their OWN land at their OWN expense. Despite the moto "this land is your land"

How many of you people that are saying he is stealing, eat grass? Do the feds eat Grass? The issue is they basically are telling him he can't have cattle there when his family has had them there for over a hundred years. When they reduced the amount of cattle he could run they knew it would drive him out. He rebelled. Now if you really want to say they had to in order to protect the turtles then provide the proof that the cattle were killing the turtles and I think that is where you will find the turtle argument is a lie.

 

[belian78]

I stopped paying attention when I found out he was a racist.

I actually haven't seen you showing up in any of the Bundy threads until now. So seems like you are in fact, paying attention now, shill.

 

[NewRightLibertarian]

Remember how we read about the Government sending out trolls to internet forums to try and change public perception? Can you spot them in this thread? There seems to be quite a few showing on our forums the last few days. Here's a hint: They start out talking about how they support and are a part of the liberty movement then the end their rant by taking the government's side on issues.

At least this situation is making it obvious who the trolls and cowards are

 

[RonPaulMall]

I guess state land or whatever land of which I had been paying fees to hunt in. The main point being that I had accepted the idea that I am supposed to pay hunting fees before hunting in it.

So now if the same thing happened to me, how many people will support me in my quest to continue hunting on said land and protect me from getting locked up?

Well, to make the analogy accurate to the Bundy situation you'd have to add more to it. Like if you had been paying a hunting license for 20 years and then all the sudden one day the government says if you want to keep getting the license you can only bag 2 squirrels every other year. You'd then say that's ridiculous and that I can't feed my family off that and so you'd refuse to agree to the license under said terms and continue to hunt as you did. And I think everyone on this board would support you.

Government shouldn't own land in the first place. If it does, it should be the states rather than the Feds. And whatever level of government it is, if they do take it upon themselves to manage the land, they have a responsibility to be reasonable in the way they manage it. Kicking out Ranchers who have worked the land for generations on account of a turtle is not reasonable.

 

[Acala]

Nonsense.

"We" won this round.

"We" made the FedCoats blink and give ground, if only a tiny bit.

And at the first sign of trouble, here comes a whole slew of naysayers and hanky wringers telling us how we're doing it all wrong, again.

No thanks, not paying attention now, got bigger fish to fry.

Yup. We won this round. But we didn't win on the convoluted issues of water and grazing rights or whether Bundy is a freeloading racist or not. We won on the far more important issue of naked power - the people versus the government. And THAT is the issue that will decide the future of liberty.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It would take a real copsucker to do something like that.

FTFY

 

[JK/SEA]

I actually haven't seen you showing up in any of the Bundy threads until now. So seems like you are in fact, paying attention now, shill.

pretty sure he/she/it didn't read your reply, because....well...they stopped paying attention....

lol

 

[Badger Paul]

"Then he should talk about this every chance he gets, make it known to start every single interview with it so that every single person that listens or reads to any of his interviews knows that he was and still is willing to pay his fair fee for the grazing rights. This should end the accusations of welfare queen if he did that from the start."

Nahh..he'd rather talk about Negroes and Mexicans.

 

[RJB]

its Friday.

They're fitshaced already? I don't start posting trash until about midnight on Fridays LOL.

 

[klamath]

Are you stealing and a on welfare if you walk in the national forest of swim is a river? If you drive on a national forest road or a BLM road are you stealing? If you climb a mountain peak are you stealing? You may laugh at this but many environmentalists consider just these things to be harmful to the biodiversity.

 

[Carlybee]

If that is the governments land and if I help fund the government then I want MY share of the royalties. Oh wait....that's never going to happen, therefore I give My permission for its use by ranchers at any time.

 

[Philhelm]

At least this situation is making it obvious who the trolls and cowards are

I'll concede to being a bona fide troll, but I'm a troll for the cause of liberty.

 

[dannno]

Yea, but you lose a credibility if you yourself was sucking the King and decide that its a little too big now. It would be one thing if their original argument was that they did not owe BLM anything or the state for that matter, but its not. Correct me if I am wrong but wasn't the disagreement that the fee were too much or is it that they referred paying to the state instead of the feds?

The fees were increased by un-elected fed bureaucrats.

I wonder how many people will come to my support if the feds came for me after I stopped paying my hunting license while continuing to hunt for 20yrs? anyone?

*Raises Hand*

 

[donnay]

FOR IMMEDIATE PRESS RELEASE - BUNDY RANGE WAR - 4-25-14


We are trading one form of slavery for another.



What I am saying is that all we Americans are trading one form of slavery for another. All of us are in some measure slaves of the federal government. Through their oppressive tactics of telling the ranchers how many cows they can have on their land, and making that number too low to support a ranch, the BLM has driven every rancher in Clark County off the land, except me. The IRS keeps the people of America in fear, and makes us all work about a third or a half of the year before we have earned enough to pay their taxes. This is nothing but slavery from January through May. The NSA spies on us and collects our private phone calls and emails. And the government dole which many people in America are on, and have been for much of their lives, is dehumanizing and degrading. It takes away incentive to work and self respect. Eventually a person on the dole becomes a ward of the government, because his only source of income is a dole from the government. Once the government has you in that position, you are its slave.



I am trying to keep Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream alive. He was praying for the day when he and his people would be free, and he could say I’m free, free at last, thank God I’m free at last! But all of us here America, no matter our race, are having our freedom eroded and destroyed by the federal government because of its heavy handed tactics. The BLM, the IRS, the NSA--all of the federal agencies are destroying our freedom. I am standing up against their bad and unconstitutional laws, just like Rosa Parks did when she refused to sit in the back of the bus. She started a revolution in America, the civil rights movement, which freed the black people from much of the oppression they were suffering. I'm saying Martin Luther King's dream was not that Rosa could take her rightful seat in the front of the bus, but his dream was that she could take any seat on the bus and I would be honored to sit beside her. I am doing the same thing Rosa Parks did--I am standing up against bad laws which dehumanize us and destroy our freedom. Just like the Minutemen at Lexington and Concord, we are saying no to an oppressive government which considers us to be slaves rather than free men.

I invite all people in America to join in our peaceful revolution to regain our freedom. That is how America was started, and we need to keep that tradition alive.



Cliven D. Bundy


PS - Please pass this email along to friends and family.

If you are not getting these emails directly you can join the list at: http://bit.do/bundy


PPS - Please join us this evening April 25th around 6 pm for a BBQ and some entertainment and a little swim in the river. Bring EVERYONE you know.

On Bunkerville rd East of I-15 a few miles. You can't miss us.

 

[Deborah K]

OP, show me where in Article I, section 8 clause:17 where the Federal Gov'ts' enumerated powers include land-grabs ala bureaucracies like the BLM?

 

[Ender]

For almost 20 years now, Cliven Bundy has lived off government welfare that he is not properly entitled to claim under the laws of the US government. He has not properly paid the grazing fees required of him and used government land without permission.

If the US government had been dealing with an group of OWS types who had taken over land owned by the government, then those OWS should have been ejected from the land just like Cliven Bundy's trespassing cattle.

That makes Cliven Bundy a welfare rancher, no different than any other welfare recipient who is not properly entitled to their ill-gotten gains.

Criticizing a welfare recipient does not imply support for the welfare program, just like criticizing Cliven Bundy for using welfare does not imply support for the ownership of the land by the Federal government.

One can say that the land should be sold, returned to the state of Nevada, or for some other purpose useful to the true owners of the land -- the US public at large. But to say that Cliven Bundy somehow owns or has rights to the land is not based on any law or fact.

There is a false dichotomy being setup by the two main sides on this issue, when there are really three sides to the issue. This third stance is that neither Cliven Bundy nor the Federal government should own the land. And this is a stance that is completely consistent with the message of limited government embraced by many in the Liberty movement.

I believe the Liberty movement has gotten off track by supporting this welfare rancher. ALL welfare programs are suspect because they transfer wealth using force, and Cliven Bundy has shown that he supports the use of force to continue receiving his welfare. It does not matter whether Bundy happens to use the "correct" anti-government rhetoric that many might agree with -- he is still a welfare recipient that has illegally acquired his gains at the expense of the US taxpayers.

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 2 of the US Constitution states:

"The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State."

This means that the US government lands can be used for whatever purpose the Congress desires -- for saving turtles, or doing nothing with it at all.

The land in dispute first came into the possession of the US government after the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo was signed in 1848, in which Mexico ceded lands to the US government in what is now known as the state of Nevada.

All of Bundy's claims to the land have been reviewed by the Federal courts and all such arguments have been rejected. Therefore his cattle should be ejected from the land, and this welfare rancher should go try to live off the proceeds of his own work, instead of trying to live off the US government.

Well, that's a crock of BS.

It is unconstitutional for the fed gov to own any land- whether they like to write in new laws or not.

 

[FloralScent]

He creates a thread, has his buddy log on and state their approval, tries to create a division then disappears back into the shadows...

Right out of the playbook. You'd think they'd take the time to mix it up a little but I reckon those Megaphone guys are hoppin' these days.

 

[dannno]

This is a really ugly thread and the reasoning behind the OP is extremely poorly thought out.

One of my progressive friends is trying to make this same argument, but the problem is that "welfare" and "rancher" don't belong in the same sentence, let-alone next to each other.

The only welfare ranches are run by big corporations who got the land through eminent domain through the state where the land belonged to other people who were likely farming and ranching themselves until the state came in and stole it from them. If you go and you settle an area and farm/ranch the land, and then give it to your offspring, how is that "welfare ranching"? I guess everybody who settled this country and started farming and ranching were welfare ranchers since they settled the land and didn't pay money for it? If so, then we need more welfare ranchers in this country!!

Anyway, the thing that really pisses me off is that my progressive friend who is trying to argue this has been living mostly on government money for decades. Try not eating for a week or growing your own food supply before calling a farmer or rancher a "welfare rancher"

 

[mac_hine]

The great Will Grigg weighs in on this in an interview with Scott Horton.

04/21/14 Will Grigg
Will Grigg, blogger and author of Liberty in Eclipse, discusses his visit to the home of embattled cattle rancher Cliven Bundy in Bunkerville, Nevada; the Bureau of Land Management’s history of land theft and violence; and the federal government’s questionable claim on huge swaths of land in Nevada.
http://scotthorton.org/interviews/2014/04/21/042114-will-grigg/