Cliven Bundy is a welfare rancher and is not a friend of Liberty

[JK/SEA]

Then he should talk about this every chance he gets, make it known to start every single interview with it so that every single person that listens or reads to any of his interviews knows that he was and still is willing to pay his fair fee for the grazing rights. This should end the accusations of welfare queen if he did that from the start.

And he should get a PR guy immediately. This man and quite frankly most people are not savvy enough to handle the MSM

fuck the fuckity fuck fuck fees. THIS IS NOT ABOUT FEES, RACE OR TURTLES. God damn...wake the fuck up.

 

[Carlybee]

http://americanlandscouncil.org/the-promises-are-the-same/

 

[Anti Federalist]

This man and quite frankly most people are not savvy enough to handle the MSM

Nor are they savvy enough to handle a cop's questioning.

Which is why, when accosted by either one, you should SHUT THE FUCK UP!

 

[Vanguard101]

I stopped paying attention when I found out he was a racist.

 

[juleswin]

Who's land are you hunting on?

They (State of HI) tell me I need a license to take feral pig from my property. Uh....

I guess state land or whatever land of which I had been paying fees to hunt in. The main point being that I had accepted the idea that I am supposed to pay hunting fees before hunting in it.

So now if the same thing happened to me, how many people will support me in my quest to continue hunting on said land and protect me from getting locked up?

 

[Acala]

The question of how people come to own land - by using it, by claiming it, etc. - is an interesting one. For example, can I claim a hundred square miles because I ran some cattle on it?

But I don't think it is an interesting question at all whether or not the Federal Government should be able to own land and lease it back to the people. That is a slam dunk "NO!" and anyone who stands up against that system is doing the right thing there.

 

[ctiger2]

I wonder how many people will come to my support if the feds came for me after I stopped paying my hunting license while continuing to hunt for 20yrs? anyone?

You need a hunting license to hunt on your own property? Can I hunt massa?

 

[Rothbardian Girl]

First of all, thank you for being brave enough to post a differing opinion on the matter. I completely agree with your statement

There is a false dichotomy being setup by the two main sides on this issue, when there are really three sides to the issue. This third stance is that neither Cliven Bundy nor the Federal government should own the land. And this is a stance that is completely consistent with the message of limited government embraced by many in the Liberty movement.

I would suggest that the rightful owners of the land are most likely the Paiutes, whose territory encompassed all of what is now Nevada before the federal government pushed them into reservations. They are also the earliest ones whose claims can be legally verified, despite the government saying their land was "vacant". If we really wanted to get this thing right (and libertarians *are* generally interested in the principle of the matter), the Paiutes should be the ones telling Bundy whether or not he can graze his cattle there.

So, I'm with you when you say that neither Bundy nor the feds should own the land, but I don't agree that the Constitution supposedly gives Congress the right to do whatever it wants with the land (are you contradicting yourself here, or am I just misunderstanding you?). There's actually a much larger issue at work here. Congress gave resource industries (logging, mining, oil, ranching) first crack at the lands that it "held" and made sure that homesteading was never a big enough issue to impede the flow of business between these industries and the government. Imagine paying off angry families versus paying off the government in these deals. Even though the government does auction off leases, these auctions are not competitive, because only companies in certain industries are allowed to bid for the leases, i.e., an environmental group that wants to preserve the land cannot do so because the government has restricted the market. The government is also heavily involved in subsidizing transportation throughout public lands so that these companies do not have to bear the would-be large costs associated with transporting the resources. Bundy's fees that he owes are also artificially cheap because ranching is one of those favored industries.

Land with a low carrying capacity such as this parcel is probably best managed in common, privately (*not* public ownership), by a group of ranchers who have a vested interest in making sure resource extraction takes place at a sustainable level. The bad things associated with the tragedy of the commons only are problems when an entity that has no interest in preservation controls the land.

 

[juleswin]

I stopped paying attention when I found out he was a racist.

Actually, I don't think he is racist or a bigot like some of his supporters here have suggested but he said something that came out wrong and instead of walking it back when it hit the news. He tries to be stubborn and doubles down on it, which we can all see is not helping him.

 

[pcosmar]

And he should get a PR guy immediately. This man and quite frankly most people are not savvy enough to handle the MSM

He has said it,, and dozens of others have said it.. The information is not hard to find,, Over 50 ranchers that worked that same land in the past have been run off (their livelihood destroyed) by these tactics.

The MSM is not going to start printing the truth about it.. their job is to smear him,, and support the agenda.

 

[Anti Federalist]

So now if the same thing happened to me, how many people will support me in my quest to continue hunting on said land and protect me from getting locked up?

If the state issued a bunch of new rules, and new fees and changed the terms of the agreement by regulatory fiat and you refused to comply because of that, you bet your ass I would.

 

[JK/SEA]

I stopped paying attention when I found out he was a racist.

go back to sleep. We'll do just fine without you.

 

[Philhelm]

The main point being that I had accepted the idea that I am supposed to pay hunting fees before hunting in it.

Of course; government and societal brainwashing gets us all in the beginning. You should know better at this point that you owe the government anything. Hell, at least make the argument that your taxes should already cover it. At least something pro-liberty...

So now if the same thing happened to me, how many people will support me in my quest to continue hunting on said land and protect me from getting locked up?

The original question was in response to me, and I had answered your questions.

 

[juleswin]

fucking brilliant statement....bravo...

yawn, with a slight sneer.

We so need a sarcasm tag in this forum

fuck the fuckity fuck fuck fees. THIS IS NOT ABOUT FEES, RACE OR TURTLES. God damn...wake the fuck up.

True, but when the messenger has as many problems with the case as Mr Bundy does, it make it harder to just focus on the real issue. Do you think Rosa Parks was the first black woman to refuse to obey Jim Crow bus rules? ofc not, but it was much easier to rally around her because she was more articulate and had her shit in order than the other candidates that came before her.

It sucks but that is the way life is. Hick your liberty cause wagon on Mr Bundy and his fight against the BLM and you will hurt the whole liberty movement

 

[pcosmar]

Actually, I don't think he is racist or a bigot like some of his supporters here have suggested but he said something that came out wrong and instead of walking it back when it hit the news. He tries to be stubborn and doubles down on it, which we can all see is not helping him.

No.
He did not say anything wrong.

They took one sentence out of context and made it sound wrong. And then Blasted that across the airwaves.

And you bought that shit.

PRESS RELEASE
We are trading one form of slavery for another.

What I am saying is that all we Americans are trading one form of slavery for another. All of us are in some measure slaves of the federal government. Through their oppressive tactics of telling the ranchers how many cows they can have on their land, and making that number too low to support a ranch, the BLM has driven every rancher in Clark County off the land, except me. The IRS keeps the people of America in fear, and makes us all work about a third or a half of the year before we have earned enough to pay their taxes. This is nothing but slavery from January through May. The NSA spies on us and collects our private phone calls and emails. And the government dole which many people in America are on, and have been for much of their lives, is dehumanizing and degrading. It takes away incentive to work and self respect. Eventually a person on the dole becomes a ward of the government, because his only source of income is a dole from the government. Once the government has you in that position, you are its slave.

I am trying to keep Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream alive. He was praying for the day when he and his people would be free, and he could say I’m free, free at last, thank God I’m free at last! But all of us here America, no matter our race, are having our freedom eroded and destroyed by the federal government because of its heavy handed tactics. The BLM, the IRS, the NSA--all of the federal agencies are destroying our freedom. I am standing up against their bad and unconstitutional laws, just like Rosa Parks did when she refused to sit in the back of the bus. She started a revolution in America, the civil rights movement, which freed the black people from much of the oppression they were suffering. I'm saying Martin Luther King's dream was not that Rosa could take her rightful seat in the front of the bus, but his dream was that she could take any seat on the bus and I would be honored to sit beside her. I am doing the same thing Rosa Parks did--I am standing up against bad laws which dehumanize us and destroy our freedom. Just like the Minutemen at Lexington and Concord, we are saying no to an oppressive government which considers us to be slaves rather than free men.

I invite all people in America to join in our peaceful revolution to regain our freedom. That is how America was started, and we need to keep that tradition alive.

Cliven D. Bundy

 

[JK/SEA]

We so need a sarcasm tag in this forum


True, but when the messenger has as many problems with the case as Mr Bundy does, it make it harder to just focus on the real issue. Do you think Rosa Parks was the first black woman to refuse to obey Jim Crow bus rules? ofc not, but it was much easier to rally around her because she was more articulate and had her shit in order than the other candidates that came before her.

It sucks but that is the way life is. Hick your liberty cause wagon on Mr Bundy and his fight against the BLM and you will hurt the whole liberty movement

well shit .... i guess we may as well pack up this Liberty tent and call it a day for Cliven, because Glen Beck told us to.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It sucks but that is the way life is. Hick your liberty cause wagon on Mr Bundy and his fight against the BLM and you will hurt the whole liberty movement

Nonsense.

"We" won this round.

"We" made the FedCoats blink and give ground, if only a tiny bit.

And at the first sign of trouble, here comes a whole slew of naysayers and hanky wringers telling us how we're doing it all wrong, again.

No thanks, not paying attention now, got bigger fish to fry.

 

[Dr.3D]

You need a hunting license to hunt on your own property? Can I hunt massa?

Yes, it's the kings deer that run across my land so I have to get a license to shoot them.

I should be able to charge the king a fee for letting his deer graze on my property.

 

[juleswin]

No.
He did not say anything wrong.

They took one sentence out of context and made it sound wrong. And then Blasted that across the airwaves.

And you bought that shit.

Now when you say it like, it makes sense. He should try and say things like this when he is in front of the camera. Most Americans will see his TV interviews than read his written statement on the internet.

 

[William Tell]

I stopped paying attention when I found out he was a racist.

He's not a racist.