Christians and alcohol

[eduardo89]

Lol. True.

They were really really really horrible.

At one the brother of the bride continued a tradition of writing and singing a song for his wedded sisters. While a nice gesture it was like William Hung bad. I really coulda used shot during/after that.

I can't imagine a an alcohol free wedding in any of the countries I've lived in (Mexico, Germany, Spain, Russia, Colombia), except maybe at some fundamentalist Mormon town in Canada.

But you're completely right in the post above the one I'm quoting in that there is a huge difference between having a few drinks over the course of an evening and getting somewhat buzzed, yet still in control of yourself but at the same time being more relaxed and uninhibited (especially for dancing), and slamming down a dozen shots and losing all self-control and dignity (I'm guilty of that on may occasions).

I think it's also a cultural thing. In Germany on a nice day my friends and I would spend most of the drinking beer and having a great time on the open air terrace of the town pub. We wouldn't get drunk, but we'd definitely feel the effect of the alcohol. I don't find that sinful, and from Biblical evidence, neither would Jesus.

 

[eduardo89]

Actually, you wanna talk about blasphemy and wine? Let's talk about using GRAPE JUICE as a SACRAMENT.

The whole point of Jesus choosing wine was because just like the shedding of his blood it is both a blessing and a curse. Wine brings joy as does salvation in Christ, but wine is also a mocker as we all know and the blood of Christ is condemnation of the old self and unbelievers.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Beorn again.

 

[Beorn]

Haha! Sorry, but you're wrong about me. I was a social drinker from the age of 16 until my early 30's. I've drank pretty much everything you can drink, and I've experienced the whole range from being slightly buzzed to being as hammered as one can get. Plus, my ex boyfriend was an alcoholic, I've had other friends who abused alcohol, so I've been around it A LOT, for many years. I don't drink anymore though, at all. And it was actually one of the best decisions I ever made in my life, after becoming a Christian.

Ok, fair enough for you to make that determination for yourself. I think you can understand my presumption as a lot of people with your perspective grew up in the Bible Belt where alcohol was just the devil's drink.

Anyway, I'm glad that you at least recognize it as a decision you made AFTER you became a Christian as I have known people who didn't seem to differentiate stopping drinking from getting saved.

To answer what you said, you are stating that as a guy, who probably weighs a lot more than most girls. When you don't weigh that much, it only takes a couple drinks, and you're already feeling it, and getting buzzed.

Fine 2-3 coronas for a guy and 2-3 coronitas for a girl.

 

[lilymc]

Actually, you wanna talk about blasphemy and wine? Let's talk about using GRAPE JUICE as a SACRAMENT.

The whole point of Jesus choosing wine was because just like the shedding of his blood it is both a blessing and a curse. Wine brings joy as does salvation in Christ, but wine is also a mocker as we all know and the blood of Christ is condemnation of the old self and unbelievers.

Back yourself up scripturally. If you can't, that's just your opinion - and your opinion as someone who obviously likes alcohol. Are you a believer, btw?

 

[eduardo89]

Back yourself up scripturally. If you can't, that's just your opinion - and your opinion as someone who obviously likes alcohol. Are you a believer, btw?

You haven't back up anything with Scripture, just illogically distorted what Scripture says.

The Bible says that God gave wine to gladden the human heart (Psalm 104:15). Grape juice doesn't really make anyone happy. Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day; he drank alcohol. He was accused of being a drunkard by the Pharisees, which means he drank, they did not accuse him of that for drinking grape juice. At the Last Supper, He turned wine into His Blood, not grape juice. At the wedding He turned water into alcoholic wine, not grape juice, as that would not make any sense in the context and in what the steward said to him.

 

[oyarde]

you want red for good properties
TRY hubbers winery (Starlight , Indiana) Starlight Red
http://www.huberwinery.com/

Starlight Red
Over 35 Varieties of
Wines, Infusions, Ports,
and Brandies.
TASTING NOTES
Our famous Starlight Red is a semi-dry, blended
primarily with the grape Chambourcin. To achieve a
lighter, fruitier style, we balance a cool fermentation
with shorter skin contact. This wine is enjoyable either
at room temperature or chilled.
Interesting plum and berry aromas lead into a smooth
texture. Starlight Red goes great with anything from
the grill, as well as your favorite pizza and pasta dishes.
TECHNICAL DATA
COMPOSITION:
Chambourcin, Chancellor and Cabernet
HARVEST DATE: 9.15.2010 to 9.22.2010
HARVEST BRIX: 23.4 to 25
COOPERAGE:
Stainless Steel Fermentation and Aging
ALCOHOL: 13.6%
PH 3.54
TA .63
RS 1.9%
PRODUCTION: 2150 Cases

its smooth
buttery
fruity AND slightly dry
11$/ bottle

They also have a Peach wine that is an exceptional summer table wine , reasonably priced. Nice peach orchard , you can pick your own , nice blackberry patch ( pick your own ), pretty good family style dining room .....

 

[lilymc]

Ok, fair enough for you to make that determination for yourself. I think you can understand my presumption as a lot of people with your perspective grew up in the Bible Belt where alcohol was just the devil's drink.

Anyway, I'm glad that you at least recognize it as a decision you made AFTER you became a Christian as I have known people who didn't seem to differentiate stopping drinking from getting saved.



Fine 2-3 coronas for a guy and 2-3 coronitas for a girl.

Yeah, I stopped drinking completely about 3 or 4 years after I became a Christian. Before that, I always thought like you guys did, that 2 or 3 drinks is fine, as long as you don't get drunk. I learned otherwise though. I don't mean to sound like a know it all, or anything like that. I realize that it may be different for guys who it takes more alcohol to get drunk. Still, though, I honestly think it's better for Christians to just abstain completely.. Because we represent Christ, and if you're sitting at a bar having a couple drinks, as a Christian.... others around you don't know if that's your first drink or 6th or 7th. So the message you're sending is pretty much, "I'm no different than any of you... drinking is fun" etc. But that's not true.

I remember the first time going out at night after I stopped drinking. I went out with a couple non-christian friends of mine, to a sports bar. We played pool and hung out, and I didn't have anything to drink, but I had a great time! With no hangover the next morning. And I remember thinking to myself, "Why didn't I do this years ago?? " Alcohol is not needed to have fun. I learned that from experience too! It's a different kind of fun, but you can have a party without alcohol.

 

[oyarde]

No He didn't. It was grape juice. At least if He did in Alabama it would have been. He also spoke perfect King James English.

Aramaic

 

[oyarde]

If you have moral dilemas about these excesses, you should do the right thing , bring all of these evils to Oyarde for proper disposal.....

 

[lilymc]

You haven't back up anything with Scripture, just illogically distorted what Scripture says.

The Bible says that God gave wine to gladden the human heart (Psalm 104:15). Grape juice doesn't really make anyone happy. Jesus did not preach against the use of wine; instead he did like most other Jews of his day; he drank alcohol. He was accused of being a drunkard by the Pharisees, which means he drank, they did not accuse him of that for drinking grape juice. At the Last Supper, He turned wine into His Blood, not grape juice. At the wedding He turned water into alcoholic wine, not grape juice, as that would not make any sense in the context and in what the steward said to him.

Point out something specific that I have said that you think is unbiblical. Like I said, I am looking not only at particular scriptures but the bible as a whole, and everything I have said I can back up scripturally. So it's unfair to compare what I said to what he did, which was post a theory, which he didn't back up scripturally. What have I distorted?

We already talked about those who accused him of being a drunk. You didn't address what I said in that post, on the previous page. Go back and please address it, instead of acting like I didn't answer it.

 

[oyarde]

Helping my fellow man comes naturally .

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Uh huh, people who had already been drinking and partying were given even MORE alcohol by Jesus, causing I'm sure at least some people to get drunk. Yeah, that sounds EXACTLY like something a holy, sinless, perfect person would do, doesn't it? Because it wouldn't cause anyone to get the wrong idea or cause anyone to get buzzed or drunk, which is a sin. Riiiiight.

What I said, that you quoted, is biblical in the sense that it came almost straight out of the bible. So, if you don't agree with it, talk to the bible.

 

[lilymc]

What I said, that you quoted, is biblical in the sense that it came almost straight out of the bible. So, if you don't agree with it, talk to the bible.

Sure, one can extrapolate a lot of things from the bible if they never go beyond the surface. Are you a Christian, btw?

 

[oyarde]

Let me define, oh , basically , Christian.Accepting Jesus as Saviour . Now, how many people really do that ? and how many of them have not had a drink ? Well , none of that really matters now does it

 

[ClydeCoulter]

Sure, one can extrapolate a lot of things from the bible if they never go beyond the surface. Are you a Christian, btw?

I've been well below the surface

No, I'm not a Christian, in the worlds eyes

 

[Beorn]

Back yourself up scripturally. If you can't, that's just your opinion - and your opinion as someone who obviously likes alcohol. Are you a believer, btw?

Point out something specific that I have said that you think is unbiblical. Like I said, I am looking not only at particular scriptures but the bible as a whole, and everything I have said I can back up scripturally. So it's unfair to compare what I said to what he did, which was post a theory, which he didn't back up scripturally. What have I distorted?

We already talked about those who accused him of being a drunk. You didn't address what I said in that post, on the previous page. Go back and please address it, instead of acting like I didn't answer it.

Yes, I'm a Christian. I don't know what kind of non-Christian would engage in a conversation about what is and isn't a sacrament.

Lol at my position being a theory. Plenty of people pointed out the scriptures. As of yet I have not seen you point to scripture that explicitly says not to drink alcohol.

Anyway, it's not good enough to be scriptural. Plenty of cultists and heretics are "scriptural." You have the right interpretation and hermeneutic. I think your hermeneutic is more informed by turn of the 19th century Prohibitionism and less informed by 2000 years of Christian thought.

 

[lilymc]

I've been well below the surface

No, I'm not a Christian, in the worlds eyes

Ok, thanks. I was just wondering, because I wasn't sure if you were being ironic or if you really believed that Jesus gave drunk people more alcohol to drink.

 

[fr33]

As much as it should be,

That will never be the end of a religious debate.

It won't because there are people dumb enough to think the people of those times would think it practicall to store grape juice. Those types tend to ignore that not only was the bible written by 3rd person accounts, it was also re-written by other people so that they could understand it then proclaim wine= grape juice.

 

[lilymc]

Yes, I'm a Christian. I don't know what kind of non-Christian would engage in a conversation about what is and isn't a sacrament.

Lol at my position being a theory. Plenty of people pointed out the scriptures. As of yet I have not seen you point to scripture that explicitly says not to drink alcohol.

Anyway, it's not good enough to be scriptural. Plenty of cultists and heretics are "scriptural." You have the right interpretation and hermeneutic. I think your hermeneutic is more informed by turn of the 19th century Prohibitionism and less informed by 2000 years of Christian thought.

No, I didn't say that your overall position was a theory. I was talking specifically about what you said about the sacrament.

Also, if you go back and read my posts, I never said that drinking in and of itself is a sin. I said a few times that the bible says drunkenness is a sin, and that it also warns against drinking and it says to be sober-minded. But warning or advising against is not the same thing as explicitly saying "do not drink". So I never said that. I did say it was MY view that it's better for Christians to not drink at all, based on my knowledge and experience, but again, I didn't say that the bible explicitly says, "Do not drink at all."

As for the last thing you said, I agree. It definitely takes more than being merely scriptural. I think it takes knowing God intimately and wanting to always be in the center of God's will.

 

[lilymc]

One more thing. The reason I haven't been posting lots of bible verses is because I didn't want to turn this into a bible study. I know that non-christians get annoyed by that. I will, though, if this discussion keeps going or if you want me to back something up.