China Wants to Build a 50 Square Mile City in the US

[Cutlerzzz]

You were the one talking about the Constitution and property rights, dude. Not I. ROFL.



I know that the Constitution does not grant rights. By the same token, you cannot pitch the Constitution as substantiation of your longing to sell your land to a foreign government.

The Constitution does not give the government the authority to interfere with me if I do. That's the bottom line. I did not bring the Constitution up here.

 

[KingRobbStark]

The Constitution does not give the government the authority to interfere with me if I do. That's the bottom line. I did not bring the Constitution up here.

I'm pretty sure the Constitution forbids any kind of selling of property to any kind of foreign government. Unless that government would abide by a constitution not of their devising for which I highly doubt any government would. Its akin to building a base in Iraq, and still claiming that Iraq still possess its national sovereignty.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

I'm pretty sure the Constitution forbids any kind of selling of property to any kind of foreign government. Unless that government would abide by a constitution not of their devising for which I highly doubt any government would. Its akin to building a base in Iraq, and still claiming that Iraq still possess its national sovereignty.

It sounds to me like China is building a city subject to American laws, not an embassy.

There is also the issue that some were saying that the government should not allow illegals to buy property, and that the government should give everyone some kind of backround check to make sure that anyone interested in buying land is American.

 

[libertyjam]

" The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

I may be wrong but I don't think the constitution gives the power to Washington to stop me. I don't think many of the founders would have a problem with it.

Now will someone tell me why this is criminal? What if I want to sale the Chinese government a bunch of fish or something. would that be bad as well?


Its so odd for me to come onto RPF and find people advocating the use of government force to mold economic transactions to there will. Its like whats going on here? I say I don't have a problem with people trading with other people and I'm the bad guy. lol

Here is an interesting thought experiment, I'm part of a state that hypothetically partially or wholly wants to secede, but the Fed government has already determined through arms that will not be allowed. So as a private person I emigrate to the Cayman Islands or somewhere. I then get the state i left to sell me all of the property of the state they can as well as all the people that wish to secede as well (since they are all in on a secret deal that is about to be outlined). I also buy a small island in the Pacific and declare it to be a Sovereign Nation of Libertystan. I then cede all titles of ownership to the new Sovereign and simultaneously cede the new Sovereign Nation back to the state I left and prior land owners within that state.
This should all be nice and legal under your view and the end result is the prior state is now a new Sovereign Nation outside the jurisdiction of the US without having to secede at all. There may be a step left out somewhere but that should express the gist of the idea.

This selling of lands to Foreign Entities appears to be all in accordance with Agenda 21, and just another step towards global government.

Further, how did the US govenment initially get the land that now form the states? Well in instances like the the Louisiana purchase and the Alaskan Territory among others, they bought it from other governments. Those Territories were then part of the Sovereign US. In the two examples France and Russia no longer had any rights or claims to that land, what is different from then and now?

 

[Anti Federalist]

No problem. FYI, I know you don't actually want anybody getting shot.

It's all good, I've been over this too many times to get heated about it.

A corporation cannot force you to do anything, unlike the government. It can only make money through voluntary means.

Yes, they can. There are a number of products that I would be willing to buy, that are not on the market due to the "tyranny of the masses". The mob selects what it likes, which is why I'll never hear Leonard Cohen on the radio, but will hear Lady Gaga to the point of illness.

The idea of every company in the entire country going with the exact same policies makes your statement too silly to actually use. Some companies might try it while others would not. Labor entering the work force would tend to move towards the companies that do not opprese their employees, and others would try to enter those companies as well. The bad ones would be forced to liberalize(in the Classical sense).

I hate to just say "you're wrong" but you are. I'm living it every day. No law forced EVERY company in the business I am in to adopt many of the polices I mentioned. They all collectively did it on their own, and there is not a place in my business world where you could go to work and be free of it.

I agree with you here, aside from the Free Trade(which has been discussed quite a bit lately).

Understood and I'm glad. All either one of us can do is posit the very best arguments for what we believe to be right and see what happens.

A tariff is a coercive tax. There is no way around this fact.

I have a right to profit through voluntary exchange, as does someone from China. You have no right to put a gun to my head and force me to pay a tax to the government for making said transaction.

All taxation is theft, agreed.

But there is a state, that at this time, cannot be voluntarily funded and is needed, as I mentioned before.

So, call me a bastard if you want, but I would much rather point the gun at a bunch of communist prison state wardens, than at you.

Let them pay to do business here.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

It sounds like these are the only things we disagree on. You say that your goal is to get rid of government, and my goal is to create a voluntary society.

Yes, they can. There are a number of products that I would be willing to buy, that are not on the market due to the "tyranny of the masses". The mob selects what it likes, which is why I'll never hear Leonard Cohen on the radio, but will hear Lady Gaga to the point of illness.

You don't have a right to buy anything. Somebody has to make a product before it can be used. So unless you force them to make it, you have no right to do so.

I hate to just say "you're wrong" but you are. I'm living it every day. No law forced EVERY company in the business I am in to adopt many of the polices I mentioned. They all collectively did it on their own, and there is not a place in my business world where you could go to work and be free of it.

I don't see why a drug test is wrong. A company does not want to hire someone that will end up arrested and imprisioned by the state for doing drug. It would be potentially wasteful for them to hire someone just to lose them.

 

[libertyjam]

It sounds to me like China is building a city subject to American laws, not an embassy.

There is also the issue that some were saying that the government should not allow illegals to buy property, and that the government should give everyone some kind of backround check to make sure that anyone interested in buying land is American.

You are correct, illegals should not be able to buy property.

 

[KingRobbStark]

It sounds to me like China is building a city subject to American laws, not an embassy.

China is building a city subject to its own laws. The colonization of certain parts of America will allow the Chinese government more say in American politics through its settlers, and that is a great affront to our sovereignty.

There is also the issue that some were saying that the government should not allow illegals to buy property, and that the government should give everyone some kind of backround check to make sure that anyone interested in buying land is American.

Illegals broke the law, and you want to reward them by allowing them to buy property? Makes no sense.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

China is building a city subject to its own laws. The colonization of certain parts of America will allow the Chinese government more say in American politics through its settlers, and that is a great affront to our sovereignty.

I don't see that mentioned in the OP's link. It just says they're buying property.

Illegals broke the law, and you want to reward them by allowing them to buy property? Makes no sense

I want to reward the guy who is selling him the land. He seems to think that he is better off selling his land to an illegal than keeping it. Beyond that, I wish the illegal nothing but good things in life.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I don't see why a drug test is wrong. A company does not want to hire someone that will end up arrested and imprisioned by the state for doing drug. It would be potentially wasteful for them to hire someone just to lose them.

See, that's where we have a problem.

Using the same logic, child abusers and neglectful parents can be imprisoned for being, well, neglectful.

So, the company now has the right to put home monitor cameras all over the inside of your house.

 

[nbhadja]

It sounds like these are the only things we disagree on. You say that your goal is to get rid of government, and my goal is to create a voluntary society.



You don't have a right to buy anything. Somebody has to make a product before it can be used. So unless you force them to make it, you have no right to do so.



I don't see why a drug test is wrong. A company does not want to hire someone that will end up arrested and imprisioned by the state for doing drug. It would be potentially wasteful for them to hire someone just to lose them.

A corporation can absolutely force your their will on you.

Corporations and governments are the same thing.

 

[libertyjam]

&^^ That
The present US government is a Corporation registered in the City of London.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

A corporation can absolutely force your their will on you.

Corporations and governments are the same thing.

Corporations and government are the same thing? I'm convinced.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

See, that's where we have a problem.

Using the same logic, child abusers and neglectful parents can be imprisoned for being, well, neglectful.

So, the company now has the right to put home monitor cameras all over the inside of your house.

The drug test is voluntary. The comparison does not apply.

 

[Anti Federalist]

The drug test is voluntary. The comparison does not apply.

Right, "voluntary" if you want a job.

It's voluntary in the same way income tax is "voluntary".

And when there is no place left to work or sell to that does not drug test, then it is no longer "voluntary", except in the sense that you could "voluntarily" live under bridges and starve in the street.

Oh wait, can't even do that any more:

So, that's what you risk if you "voluntarily" reject the system.

That ain't freedom.

 

[KingRobbStark]

I don't see that mentioned in the OP's link. It just says they're buying property.

It's a foreign intrusion from a foreign government. There is no justification. It would seem that you are being purposefully oblivious to that fact. A foreign government cares only for its interest. Thats the big problem. What if down the future Americas existence is proved to be against its interest. What then?

I want to reward the guy who is selling him the land. He seems to think that he is better off selling his land to an illegal than keeping it. Beyond that, I wish the illegal nothing but good things in life.

I also don't want to reward a person for breaking the law. Whats the purpose of a law if its not enforced? Whats the purpose of the Constitution if its not enforced?

 

[KingRobbStark]

Right, "voluntary" if you want a job.

It's voluntary in the same way income tax is "voluntary".

And when there is no place left to work or sell to that does not drug test, then it is no longer "voluntary", except in the sense that you could "voluntarily" live under bridges and starve in the street.

Oh wait, can't even do that any more:

So, that's what you risk if you "voluntarily" reject the system.

That ain't freedom.

That's the problem. The income tax is not voluntary. Everyone working in McDonald's has to wear a certain uniform. That's part of the job description. If you find wearing a uniform against your personal beliefs, then don't apply for the job.

 

[KingRobbStark]

A corporation can absolutely force your their will on you.

Corporations and governments are the same thing.

They can be the same thing, and so can you.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

Right, "voluntary" if you want a job.

It's voluntary in the same way income tax is "voluntary".

And when there is no place left to work or sell to that does not drug test, then it is no longer "voluntary", except in the sense that you could "voluntarily" live under bridges and starve in the street.

Oh wait, can't even do that any more:

So, that's what you risk if you "voluntarily" reject the system.

That ain't freedom.

Drug testing is only used because of the war on drugs.

The income tax is involuntary because you go to jail for not paying. A drug test is voluntary because you can choose not to take it. Most jobs don't even drug test now, in a country with the war on drugs raging on.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Drug testing is only used because of the war on drugs.

The income tax is involuntary because you go to jail for not paying. A drug test is voluntary because you can choose not to take it. Most jobs don't even drug test now, in a country with the war on drugs raging on.

And when the company reports you to the cops for flunking a piss test?

It's my impression that many, many jobs do.

Course, I'm in a very isolated job market that is mandated by law to drug test, so I could be wrong. My casual glancing around at businesses show that many require it.

What do other forum folks say: you drug tested at work? It is government mandated?