China Wants to Build a 50 Square Mile City in the US

[LibertyEagle]

Your property rights end when it infringes on my right to be free from an authoritarian government even worse than ours.

My fucking god, we are doing everything we can to throw off collectivist authoritarians that are infesting every level of our own government and you want to open the doors to a bunch of foreign ones as well???

I'm sorry if I'm not willing to be thrown in a gulag just so you can make a fast buck.

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again."

 

[Cutlerzzz]

Your property rights end when it infringes on my right to be free from an authoritarian government even worse than ours.

My fucking god, we are doing everything we can to throw off collectivist authoritarians that are infesting every level of our own government and you want to open the doors to a bunch of foreign ones as well???

I'm sorry if I'm not willing to be thrown in a gulag just so you can make a fast buck.

No, you just support tax collectors breaking down people's doors and shooting their children.

The fact is, you make great posts against the police several times a week, while simultaneously wanting to put a gun to everyones head in order to protect less competitive business from other countries.

You're accusing other people of violating his rights? The hypocrisy is nauseating.

 

[LibertyEagle]

No, you just support tax collectors breaking down people's doors and shooting their children.

He said nothing of the sort. Stop lying.

 

[LibertyEagle]

For being an all around statist that believes the constitution grants rights

^^^
From my negative rep from Cutlerz. ROFL.

Oh, I'm a statist because I believe in national sovereignty? You do realize that Ron Paul does too, right? Is he a statist in your book too?

Please point out where I have EVER said that the Constitution grants rights. I'll be waiting.

 

[Carehn]

Hold on a sec guys!!!!

What I see is people voluntarily coming together and buying selling land. I don't see any force in this situation. The only thing i don't like about it is the 'government' of China will be buying it and they did not get that money voluntarily.

Its not fair that people should play under different rules. This does not mean i am willing to fight for more government regulation or taxes on someone just to make it fair. If i want it fair then i want no tax or regulation at all.

What i mean is i don't see the crime in this and would love for someone to please tell me what it is. I have asked people i know in idaho as well but they never have a good reason. Just that its China and China is full of communist chinese people.

Please someone put me in my place, I am truly dying for a reason to be against this.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

He said nothing of the sort. Stop lying.

You do as well.

The fact is, Anti Federalist makes great posts against the police several times a week, while simultaneously wanting to put a gun to everyones head in order to protect less competitive business.

He's accusing other people of violating his rights? The hypocrisy is nauseating.

 

[LibertyEagle]

You do as well.

Where did I lie?

 

[Cutlerzzz]

^^^
From my negative rep from Cutlerz. ROFL.

Oh, I'm a statist because I believe in national sovereignty? You do realize that Ron Paul does too, right? Is he a statist in your book too?

Please point out where I have EVER said that the Constitution grants rights. I'll be waiting.

I hate to tell you, but you don't have any Constitutional rights to sell your land to a foreign government, or an illegal alien, for that matter.

Just going back a few posts will end this.

Nice job with the retaliatory neg.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

Where did I lie?

Lying has nothing to do with the context of that post.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Just going back a few posts will end this.

Hardly. You were quoting out of context. I was responding to this statement.

Unless they have a 50 sq mi embassy which isn't apart of our nation (in terms of sovereignty), and not subject to our laws, then this is a free city. Stop being against free trade and individual property rights. My property is mine, and I can sell it or buy it from anyone I choose who voluntary does so with me. I can hire or fire who I like at any voluntary price we agree to. None of your nationalism is rationalizing away your disrespect for my Constitutional property rights. You cannot be a "fair trader" without trampling property rights. END OF STORY, logically speaking.

Nice job with the retaliatory neg.

Count in it, when you use it as a substitute for debate.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

Hardly. You were quoting out of context. I was responding to this statement.

Nice try. Property rights are constitutional, with a few exceptions(taxation, eminent domain).

 

[LibertyEagle]

Nice try. Property rights are constitutional, with a few exceptions(taxation, eminent domain).

Our Founders didn't even believe so much in immigration and you're selling that they were fine with Americans selling their land to foreign governments and illegal aliens? ROFL. Please point to that clause in the Constitution.

What was likely to happen, according to Jefferson, was that immigrants would come to America from countries that would have given them no experience living in a free society. They would bring with them the ideas and principles of the governments they left behind --ideas and principles that were often at odds with American liberty.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21626

 

[Carehn]

Our Founders didn't even believe so much in immigration and you're selling that they were fine with Americans selling their land to foreign governments? ROFL. Please point to that clause in the Constitution.


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21626

" The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

I may be wrong but I don't think the constitution gives the power to Washington to stop me. I don't think many of the founders would have a problem with it.

Now will someone tell me why this is criminal? What if I want to sale the Chinese government a bunch of fish or something. would that be bad as well?


Its so odd for me to come onto RPF and find people advocating the use of government force to mold economic transactions to there will. Its like whats going on here? I say I don't have a problem with people trading with other people and I'm the bad guy. lol

 

[Cutlerzzz]

Our Founders didn't even believe so much in immigration and you're selling that they were fine with Americans selling their land to foreign governments? Please point to that clause in the Constitution.


http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=21626

YOU DO NOT NEED THE CONSTITUTIONS PERMISSION TO DO ANYTHING! THE CONSTITUTION NEEDS TO GIVE THE GOVERNMENT THE AUTHORITY TO DO SOMETHING!

You've proven my point. You believe that instead of protecting rights, the constitution grants them. Read the 9th and 10th amendment. It is up to you to find a clause in the Constitution that gives the government that authority. This is a perfect example of a so called "constitutionalist" being flimsy about the constitution when he does not agree with it.

Maybe many of the Founders were personally opposed to immigration. But, the fact is, there were no immigration restrictions until the Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882, and not until the Progressive Era were more laws adopted.

I'd also like to apologize for being rude in the way I worded the neg I sent to you. I should have been more specific.

 

[LibertyEagle]

You were the one talking about the Constitution and property rights, dude. Not I. ROFL.

You've proven my point. You believe that instead of protecting rights, the constitution grants them. Read the 9th and 10th amendment. It is up to you to find a clause in the Constitution that gives the government that authority. This is a perfect example of a so called "constitutionalist" being flimsy about the constitution when he does not agree with it.

I know that the Constitution does not grant rights. By the same token, you cannot pitch the Constitution as substantiation of your longing to sell your land to a foreign government.

 

[Anti Federalist]

You do as well.

The fact is, Anti Federalist makes great posts against the police several times a week, while simultaneously wanting to put a gun to everyones head in order to protect less competitive business.

He's accusing other people of violating his rights? The hypocrisy is nauseating.

Let me make my position very clear, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to expand on this.

A couple of points and truths that I have found to be true after 30 years of working for living, in everything from the largest corporations to owning two businesses of my own:

1 - Corporate tyranny is as bad as government tyranny. The notion that the private sector would not enact policies that could be just as repressive as any government law or policy, is historically inaccurate on the face of it. Look up "Fordism". Read up on the history of the coal miners of West Virginia, how the companies colluded together to "own" everything about the people living there. Research some of the "planned worker's communities" of the late 19th and early 20th century, where you were subject to house to house searches for "the demon rum" or forced the people to attend the company church.

"Oh, well, then just go and find another job, or start your own business then, if you don't like it." Sophomoric sophistry. A useless suggestion when every company, every business, every endeavor is carrying out the same policy, for whatever reason. Much like the pervasiveness of drug testing in whole swaths of jobs where there is no law mandating such tests.

If you're saying that, just because you agree to sell a business owner a set of skills and labor for a specific period of time each day, that said employer now "owns" you and has a right to snoop into everything you do, well, you're doing nothing but selling indentured servitude, which is pretty much what we are already living under now through government. Good luck with that.

2 - I am opposed to globalization and "free trade". I have to live and work under these mandates. I have to comply with, literally, 10,000 pages of UN mandated rules, regulations and policies, IN MY OWN COUNTRY. Now, if you would please, point to who I vote for on the IMO/SOLAS/ILO board? Who is my representation there? My time, labor and income is taxed by complying with these policies. Who is my representative there?

If you think compliance with the fedgov and all it's nonsense is next to impossible now, wait until you have start complying with international rules, codes and policies.

3 - No, I don't want to put a gun to any fellow citizen's head. I want to put the gun to the head of the foreign mercantilists, communists, socialists, subsidized police statists and all the rest looking to make a fast buck in our market by gutting our industry, destroying the middle class, and erecting a police state as a consequence, to protect the banksters, swindlers, fast buck con men, and bunko artists selling this pile of swill called "free trade".

Because as the wheels continue to fall off this mess, that's what the police will do, they will arrest, shoot and kill those of us who try to stop these con men pricks from bailing out of the country, literally with bags of swag over their back.

That is what they are warming up for, that is what the training is gearing them up for, that's why I post a seemingly endless string of horrendous police abuse stories just about every day.

I'm sorry but my right to self determination trumps your right to make a fast buck off prison labor made crap.

So, while my own personal philosophy is "less and less government, until there is none" is the goal I am striving for, at this point in the game there can be no denying that a nation, borders, trade and monetary policy that enhances that goal, freedom and individual liberty, for us, the American people is still needed right now.

If this cannot take place within the current boundaries of the nation, as they stand now, if all hope is lost, then I advocate secession.

 

[libertyjam]

Hold on a sec guys!!!!

What I see is people voluntarily coming together and buying selling land. I don't see any force in this situation. The only thing i don't like about it is the 'government' of China will be buying it and they did not get that money voluntarily.

Its not fair that people should play under different rules. This does not mean i am willing to fight for more government regulation or taxes on someone just to make it fair. If i want it fair then i want no tax or regulation at all.

What i mean is i don't see the crime in this and would love for someone to please tell me what it is. I have asked people i know in idaho as well but they never have a good reason. Just that its China and China is full of communist chinese people.

Please someone put me in my place, I am truly dying for a reason to be against this.

Does this help any?

 

[Carehn]

Does this help any?

Yes it did.

 

[KingRobbStark]

I don't mind if an investor buys land, and populates it by people from where ever he pleases as long as they live within American jurisdiction. Though if a government attempts to "invest" in America, then I consider it an attack against its sovereignty.

 

[Cutlerzzz]

Let me make my position very clear, and thanks for giving me the opportunity to expand on this.

No problem. FYI, I know you don't actually want anybody getting shot.

1 - Corporate tyranny is as bad as government tyranny. The notion that the private sector would not enact policies that could be just as repressive as any government law or policy, is historically inaccurate on the face of it. Look up "Fordism". Read up on the history of the coal miners of West Virginia, how the companies colluded together to "own" everything about the people living there. Research some of the "planned worker's communities" of the late 19th and early 20th century, where you were subject to house to house searches for "the demon rum" or forced the people to attend the company church.

"Oh, well, then just go and find another job, or start your own business then, if you don't like it." Sophomoric sophistry. A useless suggestion when every company, every business, every endeavor is carrying out the same policy, for whatever reason. Much like the pervasiveness of drug testing in whole swaths of jobs where there is no law mandating such tests.

If you're saying that, just because you agree to sell a business owner a set of skills and labor for a specific period of time each day, that said employer now "owns" you and has a right to snoop into everything you do, well, you're doing nothing but selling indentured servitude, which is pretty much what we are already living under now through government. Good luck with that.

A corporation cannot force you to do anything, unlike the government. It can only make money through voluntary means.

The idea of every company in the entire country going with the exact same policies makes your statement too silly to actually use. Some companies might try it while others would not. Labor entering the work force would tend to move towards the companies that do not opprese their employees, and others would try to enter those companies as well. The bad ones would be forced to liberalize(in the Classical sense).

2 - I am opposed to globalization and "free trade". I have to live and work under these mandates. I have to comply with, literally, 10,000 pages of UN mandated rules, regulations and policies, IN MY OWN COUNTRY. Now, if you would please, point to who I vote for on the IMO/SOLAS/ILO board? Who is my representation there? My time, labor and income is taxed by complying with these policies. Who is my representative there?

If you think compliance with the fedgov and all it's nonsense is next to impossible now, wait until you have start complying with international rules, codes and policies.

I agree with you here, aside from the Free Trade(which has been discussed quite a bit lately).

3 - No, I don't want to put a gun to any fellow citizen's head. I want to put the gun to the head of the foreign mercantilists, communists, socialists, subsidized police statists and all the rest looking to make a fast buck in our market by gutting our industry, destroying the middle class, and erecting a police state as a consequence, to protect the banksters, swindlers, fast buck con men, and bunko artists selling this pile of swill called "free trade". Because as the wheels continue to fall off this mess, that's what the police will do, they will arrest, shoot and kill those of us who try to stop these con men pricks from bailing out of the country, literally with bags of swag over their back.


I'm sorry but my right to self determination trumps your right to make a fast buck off prison labor made crap.

So, while my own personal philosophy is "less and less government, until there is none" is the goal I am striving for, at this point in the game there can be no denying that a nation, borders, trade and monetary policy that enhances that goal, freedom and individual liberty, for us, the American people is still needed right now.

If this cannot take place within the current boundaries of the nation, as they stand now, if all hope is lost, then I advocate secession

A tariff is a coercive tax. There is no way around this fact.

I have a right to profit through voluntary exchange, as does someone from China. You have no right to put a gun to my head and force me to pay a tax to the government for making said transaction.