If you think RP is some innocent, naive, old man who thinks people in politics must be honest because he grew up in a neighborhood where people didn't lock their doors, then I've got a bridge to sell you. He may be soft spoken, but he's shrewd, politically savvy, and very familiar with the corruption and dishonesty that's endemic to politics. If he keeps his own hands clean from problems like this by way of ignorance on his part, it's as likely as not that keeps his distance from certain things at the operational level of groups he's involved in for that purpose by design.
I should be sleeping but I am so worried that these "innocent mistake makers" are intentionally going to drag Ron Paul into this, put a camera in front of him after he's only heard the crap these leeches are telling him and make him look REALLY bad.
Hey folks,
My name is Steve Vasquez, I am the NY State Interim Coordinator for Campaign for Liberty. Just to clear some things up. No, we are not paid, we are normal grassroots activist like the rest of you. We did not know about this ahead of time, but we now have a good understanding of what is going on, so let me try to explain.
Hey, Steve, nice of you to show up. Have you read all the way through any of the many threads here or at dailypaul? Because I get the feeling you're eating the crap they're putting on your plate without realizing it's a buffet and you get to pick your own food.
I don't think you understand squat here.
First off, the ad is being pulled from CO. Second, the staff at HQ know they made a mistake, and they are sorry. The plan was not a bad one, the implementation was.
Oh, the ad is being pulled? Why?
They made a mistake and they're sorry? What the hell kind of bs is that? Why are you here saying that instead of Debbie Hopper who also has an account here? Why didn't Tate say he was sorry? This is so pathetic it's almost kinda funny.
The overall plan is to go to key states in order of filing dates (which is why KY/Rand and NM/Kokesh was not done yet) and get as many candidate surveys complete as possible so we have it on record of whether or not a candidate stands for Constitution principles. Here is an example of the responses from Illinois:
http://www.campaignforliberty.com/candidatesurvey.php?state=IL
Ohhhh, okaaaay. So when it comes time for Rand and Kokesh to get their surveys they're also going to get slick candidate
endorsements survey commercials? Or was that something special because these mysteriously deep-pocketed new "members" in CO wanted this for Buck?
If a candidate is voted in and breaks these promises, we hold them accountable. Straight forward so far. The issue that comes up is the ad in CO. The concept of the ad was to show political strength by showing ads to encourage every candidate that did not take the survey from those "Ron Paul" folks. It worked, the CO crew got tons of calls, and they are now politically feared/respected and take those Constitutional folks seriously now.
Who came up with this brilliant concept?
You know, I find it INSULTING that we we worked so hard to put together a 10th resolution in VT and have been working on trying to get this going here and got nothing but grief from national because of it. Based on the logic you're using to justify this stupid survey a 10th resolution would be even better than a survey because it would be an actual recorded vote that shows where an individual candidate/incumbent stands on the Constitution."Oh," I heard, "but 10th resolutions have no teeth, you should work on a firearms freedom act instead." I also heard that we shouldn't be wasting valuable time and "resources" doing this from Debbie Hopper. "Oh really," I asked her, "What resources do you think we're spending?" This was after we'd gotten our entire delegation on board for 1207/604 and got no recognition for it whatsoever.
And again, I'll raise another point-- what REPUBLICAN candidate in his or her right mind isn't gonna scramble to get their hands on one of these survey/
endorsement commercial packages? Steve, I know you're a smart guy, think about what you're saying.
Of course where things went wrong was rather than a negative ad to the ones who did not take the survey, this ad was just a little too glowing for this candidate, Buck (while still not an endorsement) who did fill out the survey. That was a mistake, and CFL knows it and is sorry.
Just a little? You think? WHY THE HELL IS C4L MAKING COMMERCIALS ABOUT THE SURVEY IN THE FIRST PLACE????
Explain to me how it makes any kind of sense whatsoever for C4L to be paying a guy full time to sit in the office and do data entry into spread sheets to figure out when each state should get the survey. Tell me how it makes sense to do this without the help and cooperation from the coordinators (local, county, district, state)?
Our philosophy is that if you don't have anything bad to say about a politician, then you don't say anything at all. Obviously this rule was broken, we know, and we'll take our lumps for it. So feel free to express your thoughts and anger on us, the implementation was wrong. We have learned an important lesson here, one that will not be repeated.
Well, let's be realistic. Why should we expect any adherence to philosophy from the people you're eating this garbage from? You do, however, do yourself a huge disservice when you lump yourself in with them. Unless things have drastically changed with you in the last 2 years I've read enough of what you've written on our meetup to know you're better than this. I'm really quite disappointed that you're allowing yourself to be used like this.
Remember, the CFL does have a goal to promote and educate Constitutional values of limited government, sound money, individual civil liberties, and a non-interventionalist foreign policy (I know your responses with Buck and his website, so go ahead and do so, again a known mistake). We are working to instill these values in candidates and show them that we will hold them accountable to those values.
When did you all decide that you were gonna be theguy who came here to take the whipping for them?
As you know over the course of the past year, with your help both in and out of the CFL, we have changed the political discourse when it comes to the Fed, where in the first real time since 1913, the Fed is being openly challenged, discussed negatively on major media outlets, open opposition to the Fed Chairmen's nomination, and open investigations on the going ons of its illegal operations with AIG and Giethner. This is monumental, and these are the kind of victories we are achieving, where only a year ago, all thought it was impossible and the Fed was invulnerable.
Now's when you talk about all the great work that the activists have done that the con-artists at national are taking credit for so they can send out another mailer asking for money...
Our battle is far from done, and its not going to be an easy one. It was not easy for our founders to survive the rough winter in Valley Forge, holding up and preparing to fight the largest known army and force in the world. But it was their conviction and dedication to continue forth even in the worse of time that overthrew tyranny and formed the republic, the free-est nation in the world. That nation is now threatened by the same kind of tyranny that threatens our liberties and freedoms, and it is up to us, the awaken loud minority to cause the rumblings that will shake this nation and tumble the walls of oppression.
That's good, did you recycle that from your tea party speech or are you really all swept up in a patriotic frenzy over C4L?
So give us our lumps, we will take it in humility. We are human, and we make our fair share of mistakes.
But then, let's come together and go out there to inflict the maximum amount of pain to the statist incumbents and expose the Fed to the world so we see the creature for what it really is.
For freedom,
Steven Vasquez
Interim NY State Cooridinator
Steve, I am really so disappointed with you. You bought it hook, line and sinker
So to confirm, the only thing keeping grassroots activists from making this "bottom-up" org a reality is a loyalty to C4L and the absence of the RPPCC seed money? Because as I see it, there's nothing else from stopping folks from going there.
There isn't. But it's obviously something you guys were given with a certain intention for use and you don't seem to care to remeber what that intention was.
BTW, I'm sure you've noticed I'm extremely suspicious of just who you are. I have an idea, unfortunately it will have to wait until the search feature is fixed.
Sorry, I'm not sure. He answered 19 of the 20 correctly. Maybe it was the UN Withdrawal question which is the one most candidates will have an issue with (lack of education).
Again, it was a mistake. I'm not going to justify it, as many of us with solid principles will not cross the line when it comes to the issue of war. But I will give a little of what I know of Buck in perspective. Buck's competitor is the Pelosi equivalent of RINO NEOCON, the worst of the worst. Over the course of the year, Buck has done a complete 180 when it comes to the Fed, from supporting it to completely against it, and rebuking the renomination of Bernanke. He is now against the concept of unconstitutional wars, against the Patriot Act, etc. As we know, his website talks about his stance on the Afghanistan war. A interesting comparison would be a Senator like Jim DeMint. A very good conservative on many issues, but not a Ron Paul Republican. Heck there is no Ron Paul Republican, except for Ron Paul. Not even Rand Paul or Peter Schiff.
But that is all irrelevant. The mistake was, again, if you don't have something bad to say about a politician, don't say anything. Its a mistake that won't happen again.
So, yes, stick to your principles. It is what makes you who you are and it is what keeps bad policy in check.
NO, it IS NOT irrelevant. Open your eyes and read! You're right there is no Ron Paul Republican except for Ron Paul. But we are going to bend on one of the CORE PRINCIPLES of the C4L and then say, "Oops, my bad?" With no one except YOU coming in here claiming any kind of responsibility for this? Steve, seriously? You're willing to take responsibility for this?
You know, according to Hopper, Tate and Rothfeld we're the ones who don't know anything about politics, that's why we need to spend all kinds of money to go to these damn seminars and hear Rothfeld pontificate about how education is a waste of time and it's all about the GOP... I love how they didn't realize it was a mistake until us lowly peons got all bent out of shape.
All I meant was this: besides the name and the start-up money, what is there that C4L has that the grassroots cannot replace?
My personal opinion? The name. Every boot on the ground helped build that brand. In areas where C4L is active on the ground, those local people have built a reputation and a brand that national coudn't buy if they tried. We have given them so much more than they have given us and yet they get to take the brand while we start over.
You know, but that's fine, too. When you're really active people don't just associate the work you do with a faceless organization-- they know who the activists are and what they do.
