CFL Spent $350,000 on a pro-war Colorado candidate

[qwerty]

Jihaaa, we have new trolls here!

 

[constituent]

If anything I think it will make people realize that they need to contribute directly to candidates and get more involved locally. At least that's what I hope.

That's most likely what will happen.

If it does, will it then be time (as in, will people finally be comfortable enough) to start questioning "standard methods" of organization?

 

[klamath]

Well, we shall see. There is a board of directors and if they care about him AT ALL they were thinking of him and kept him out of this debacle.

I don't want Dr. Paul to be dragged through the mud but I REALLY don't trust this group of people running C4L. I don't think they give a rat's ass about wht kind of damage they're doing with this whole thing. I don't think they care because they don't care about the principles of the organization they are working for. Debbie Hopper busted up the CP over abortion and she could care less whether Rothfeld agrees with us on foreign policy. Foreign Policy is the one plank of our platform that should never be compromised. It is what binds all of us. left and right, together in our support of Ron Paul.

If Debbie is quick to dismiss my concerns and try to shut me down-- little old me-- what makes anyone think she gives a rat's ass about what any of us think? They weren't making any money til Rothfeld came on board. The people who were there before they made money was us. apparently it wasn't enough to have a motivated group of fired up activists ready to go. They needed money. And when Rothfeld proved he could get the money without the activists that was the end of that.

I am not sure what "CP" is but if it is CFL then I hope the heck that someone wasn't trying to put a proabortion plank in the platform. If they were they should have caught as much hell as this whole thing.
There is no "we" or "our" platform as I pointed out before, in this movement. There is only your personal opinion of what plank should never be compromised. I have my own personal opinions on what "is" the non compromisable planks.

 

[klamath]

How long does it really take to prepare a statement? C4L keeps on ignoring my (our) pleas and questions. They are speaking more to the media than to us.

C4L is about as transparent as the Obomba administration. I am a disgusted and disenfranchised almost-ex-member. I say almost-ex because I will hold out for their explanation, but their failure to produce it in an extremely timely fashion speaks wonders about their lack of transparency.

Even if they have a reasonable and satisfactory explanation, I have learned far too much about the inner workings of C4L to be very comfortable with them. No more support and no more contributions from me until they take a serious look at their lack of transparency and come up with a good model we can be proud of.

I am just absolutely heartbroken and I feel duped. Thanks guys and gals for bringing this to our attention and keeping up this awesome homegrown investigation.

Another guy that just signed up to bash the CFL. What a great contrabution

 

[pacelli]

Perhaps we need some modern thinking in regard to accomplishing goals; The Pareto principle, maybe? 80% of the results come from 20% of the work? 80% of our success will come from 20% of our work...so try to work that how you will. Maybe focus nearly all of our efforts in 20% of the country, rather than the whole? Maybe focus 80% of our efforts in small communities or towns (20% of the whole picture), which could bring us 80% of our results?

The idea now should be to isolate what "20%" creates "80%" of our results.

Fact of the matter is we really don't have a game plan. Giving money to an organization so they can redistribute it to various places is not a game plan. However, if one were to discover 20% of goverment (ie, taking over small communities, much more achievable) would create an uprising leading to 80% of our results, that would be great. I'm not saying this is it, but it's time we start targeting what actually works instead of trusting idiots like CFL.

I just wanted to quote a good, productive idea, since usually good ideas tend to become completely lost in these long threads.

 

[rancher89]

I am not sure what "CP" is but if it is CFL then I hope the heck that someone wasn't trying to put a proabortion plank in the platform. If they were they should have caught as much hell as this whole thing.
There is no "we" or "our" platform as I pointed out before, in this movement. There is only your personal opinion of what plank should never be compromised. I have my own personal opinions on what "is" the non compromisable planks.

LLS meant Constitution Party

 

[LittleLightShining]

My understanding is that the money was given under conditions on what it could be used for and these conditions were that it be used for that candidate in CO.

C4L Said that Buck scored very high on their positions survey.

The explanation for the delay in the release of a statement is that they need to be careful with the legalities concerned in releasing information about donors, money, etc..

Excuses excuses. No one in Colorado knew about the survey except national, the candidate and the donor.

Tell me how it makes any kind of fiscal sense to have these surveys generating from national without the assistance of the boots on the ground in the states.

If there's a survey being sent to candidates from national, and one of the expectations national has from state partners is to have "regular contact with elected officials to inform them about the work of the C4L" (from The Campaign For Liberty Partner Relationship agreement), WHY not give this excellent tool (the survey) to the state coordinators to use to build these relationships with candidates???

Thank you to the RP Forums community for breaking this story. It is now on the front page of the Daily Paul, where it will stay, until we get some answers.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/123033

But let me be clear: I stand with Ron Paul.

He's not the quirky little Congressman from Texas who can say and do what he wants and no one cares any more.

This is high stakes politics. This is the big show. Dr. Paul is under tremendous pressure. In this game, anything goes.

I will reserve judgment until I hear from the C4L on the matter at hand.

I still support Ron Paul. I understand the C4L and Ron Paul are separate entities. Ron Paul is a Congressman. He has a job to do. He is a visionary. The amount of time he can devote to overseeing this political entity is limited. I understand that.

People came down on Dr. P. because of that thing about supporting Texas incumbents. Well, I know the pressure he is under, simply because I have a good imagination, and I know what I have experienced running this site. His popularity means that everyone is grabbing and clawing at him. Everyone wants something from him.

I am only able to image this because of the microcosm I have experienced in running this website.

Maybe I'm stupid. Maybe I'm naive. Maybe I'm going to get my heart broken like it has never been broken before. Maybe I'll piss Dr. Paul off and be estranged from him forever.

It doesn't matter. Let the chips fall where they may.

The only thing I have is my self respect. In the end, it is the only thing any of us have.

I want some information from the C4L about what they're doing with our money. If it is not our money, then why are they selling their name, and by association, our name.

Someone on the RP Forums said it best: Foreign Policy is an area that WE DON'T COMPROMISE. It is what unites us all. It even unites us with the lefty peaceniks. It is what unites us with other AMERICANS.

I'm not going to sell that out.

I've kept my tongue tied over the C4L for long enough out of respect for Dr. Paul. But there is no point in valuing his self respect over my own for any longer. Dr. Paul is, and always will be, forever in my mind, the greatest hero I have ever known in my generation.

I have never respected an American president. The first one I can remember is Nixon. You can go through the list: Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush I, Clinton, Bush II, Obama. Johnson was president when I was born.

Who among these men can I respect? None.

Ron Paul is my only hero in the political realm. I realize he is in a difficult position. So am I. Welcome to politics.

I'm not a playah. I want answers.

Me, too. Thanks for being a bold voice for the grassroots.

My State Coordinator called and spoke to me in length tonight. They had a major phone call today with John Tate and the State Coordinators due to my thread on the C4L forums, and the phone calls they had received. From what I gathered NONE of the State leadership (including Colorado) were aware of this at all and are all equally upset. Mr. Tate told them that he should have a response to everyone's concerns tomorrow. The State Coordinator sounded genuinely upset with the situation. I let him know that I may still get involved in local things, or even State level but my support for C4L on a National level will take much explaining, some actual actions and not just words, and many changes before the wounds can even begin to heal.

So now we wait and see what tomorrow will bring.

Bears repeating. We're gonna get nothing but spin. And I have a feeling they're going to stick Ron Paul in the middle of this. So who's this going to hurt? And they're going to stick us out and blame the fall of Dr. Paul on us when this was part of the plan from the beginning. I honestly believe this.

Even if they didn't spend $350,000 on this one guy, they still wasted $350,000 on a stupid survey. Seriously, us here at RPFs could have done a silly survey for a few thousand dollars.

It's time to open the books and show how the money is being spent. If anything, it will help prevent situations like this from arising in the future.

OPEN THE BOOKS!

the money was from "new donors" and was earmarked by these "new donors" to only be spent on this candidate/ad...the money did not come from the general pool of donations...the "new donors" is apparently this guy: http://coloradoindependent.com/46727/ken-buck-campaign-ad-stirs-up-supporters-and-speculation (Tim Gill)

So they are willing to compromise on the most important plank of the C4L principles statement to the highest bidder. Nice.

That's most likely what will happen.

If it does, will it then be time (as in, will people finally be comfortable enough) to start questioning "standard methods" of organization?

I certainly hope so. I've been wondering for quite some time why this organization is so centralized and secret about everything when this is exactly what we're fighting against.

 

[constituent]

I certainly hope so. I've been wondering for quite some time why this organization is so centralized and secret about everything when this is exactly what we're fighting against.

TruthWarrior had a quote in his sig. that would appropriate.

If I wasn't so lazy, this would be a placeholder...

 

[constituent]

the money was from "new donors" and was earmarked by these "new donors" to only be spent on this candidate/ad...the money did not come from the general pool of donations...the "new donors" is apparently this guy: http://coloradoindependent.com/46727/ken-buck-campaign-ad-stirs-up-supporters-and-speculation (Tim Gill)

controlled leaks, lmao.

next we'll be hearing about this episode proving CFL as a bottom-up, grassroots organization...

 

[MsDoodahs]

This is a good news / bad news thing. From the article Tim Gill supposedly donated the money as thanks for Buck making use of "hate crimes" laws. Last time I checked Paul was on record against hate crimes legislation.

http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-07-02/r...s-bill-a-serious-threat-to-freedom-of-speech/

Of course the crime in question should be prosecuted, but why not just treat it as a murder? And as senator would Buck support expansion of such legislation in the future? And imagine how this could be spun against the CFL?

Bill and I were discussing this last night and this is where our speculation led us....it has the feel of a PAYOFF to candidate Buck.

Perhaps Gill is the reason Buck chose to prosecute as a hate crime - Gill may have guaranteed money for the senatorial campaign IF Buck would prosecute as a hate crime.

Buck did - Gill is happy - now time to complete the payoff.

Gill needs an org that will keep his identity on the down low because Buck has that pesky R beside his name.

Top staff at CFL has some who have been active in CO politics in the past - phone calls are made - the scheme is hatched....

The reason CFL couldn't make a statement right away is because they needed time to figure out how to COVER THEIR ASSES.

Is it illegal for money to influence a prosecution?

Or are all prosecutors for sale in this kind of sleazy way?

 

[pcosmar]

Is it "Tomorrow" yet?
I am scanning, looking for the announcement/explanation. Not seeing anything,

/saddened,

 

[catdd]

It's "tomorrow".

 

[Elwar]

I wouldn't expect too much from any announcement. The 501c4b(32)uj requires that they not say the wrong thing.

What it sounds like is some gay dude gave them $350k to run an ad, so they used the survey spin to get it through.

They can't say that though...they'll probably say something like "We do not endorse candidates, we are promoting our survey. The $350k toward our survey campaign came from a very generous donor."

The announcement will be worded in a way that it stays within the law and drops hints to us what really happened.

 

[pcosmar]

It's "tomorrow".

Nothing in my E-mails.


yes, I'm on the list.

 

[purplechoe]

CFL: How long does it take to TELL THE TRUTH?

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

YouTube - Flashback: Treasonous Clinton puppet tells us "There is no Freedom"

 

[pcosmar]

I wouldn't expect too much from any announcement. The 501c4b(32)uj requires that they not say the wrong thing.

What it sounds like is some gay dude gave them $350k to run an ad, so they used the survey spin to get it through.

They can't say that though...they'll probably say something like "We do not endorse candidates, we are promoting our survey. The $350k toward our survey campaign came from a very generous donor."

The announcement will be to stay within the law and drop hints to us what really happened.

Perhaps.
That shit ain't gonna get it !

 

[pacelli]

My State Coordinator called and spoke to me in length tonight. They had a major phone call today with John Tate and the State Coordinators due to my thread on the C4L forums, and the phone calls they had received. From what I gathered NONE of the State leadership (including Colorado) were aware of this at all and are all equally upset. Mr. Tate told them that he should have a response to everyone's concerns tomorrow. The State Coordinator sounded genuinely upset with the situation. I let him know that I may still get involved in local things, or even State level but my support for C4L on a National level will take much explaining, some actual actions and not just words, and many changes before the wounds can even begin to heal.

So now we wait and see what tomorrow will bring.

If that is true, then a lawsuit initiated by C4L against the party engaging in fraud should be forthcoming. Anything less than that, and I consider the entire story a cover-up.

 

[catdd]

Nothing in my E-mails.


yes, I'm on the list.

Nothing in mine either, and usually there are a couple in the mornings. That's not a good sign.

 

[smashysmashy]

Another guy that just signed up to bash the CFL. What a great contrabution

Wow. I cam to these boards thanks to you all for bringing this to our attention. Don't you want C4L members who are FUCKING RON PAUL SUPPORTERS to understand what is wrong with C4L? Wouldn't you want more supporters to come here an join the cause? I never thought I would be ostracized for my previous comment. I was just trying to say thanks for bringing this to our attention. Sorry I didn't realize these boards were so pretentious and skeptical of newcomers who are supporters. I'll gladly delete my account and not contribute if this is how you feel about newcomers. I was just really upset with C4L (something that has been building up even before this) and I was really glad you guys and gals on this board brought it to our attention. But if I am being told I am a troll, then fine, no need to be treated this way.

 

[LittleLightShining]

Wow. I cam to these boards thanks to you all for bringing this to our attention. Don't you want C4L members who are FUCKING RON PAUL SUPPORTERS to understand what is wrong with C4L? Wouldn't you want more supporters to come here an join the cause? I never thought I would be ostracized for my previous comment. I was just trying to say thanks for bringing this to our attention. Sorry I didn't realize these boards were so pretentious and skeptical of newcomers who are supporters. I'll gladly delete my account and not contribute if this is how you feel about newcomers. I was just really upset with C4L (something that has been building up even before this) and I was really glad you guys and gals on this board brought it to our attention. But if I am being told I am a troll, then fine, no need to be treated this way.

I don't think you're a troll, if that's any consolation. Your handle looks familiar. Do I recognize it from C4L?