Can a non Christain under any circumstances go to heaven(Christians only)

[Thread_Maker]

What if an infant dies. How could he ever accept Christ? Is some kind of exemption made for him? The same would apply to some random guy who's never heard of Christ.

What if someone is simply not Christian?

Do we, as human beings, know any of this for sure? Does God make exemptions for some?

 

[Thread_Maker]

What if some random Athiest dies, sees God for his judgement, and goes "ooops, I guess you do exist. You're my lord and savior that means"?

 

[dannno]

I would think so, yes. I would think God could see your heart and intentions.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Yes, infants are given an exemption.

Why don't you post with your primary account?

 

[Sola_Fide]

I would think so, yes. I would think God could see your heart and intentions.

The heart and intention of man is evil. The heart and intention of man cannot satisfy the justice of a holy God. Only the perfect life and susbstitutionary atonement of Christ can justify a man before God.

By the way, this is the wrong forum to ask so profound a question.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Why don't you post with your primary account?

Hmmm. Who is it?

 

[YumYum]

Good question. What about those that are special (mentally challenged)? What about those who lived before Jesus walked the Earth? It says in Acts that King David didn't go to heaven. So, where is he? Waiting in sleep for the Resurrection Day? If he is dead and not conscious, waiting to be resurrected, doesn't that mean that our souls die and they are not immortal? There is a lot to speculate on.

 

[erowe1]

What if an infant dies. How could he ever accept Christ? Is some kind of exemption made for him? The same would apply to some random guy who's never heard of Christ.

What if someone is simply not Christian?

Do we, as human beings, know any of this for sure? Does God make exemptions for some?

I'm content to say, even though I have some thoughts about them, I don't know for sure what God does in most of those cases.

These questions get asked a lot. And without exception, the people asking them are people who won't have any of those excuses on judgment day.

 

[erowe1]

What if some random Athiest dies, sees God for his judgement, and goes "ooops, I guess you do exist. You're my lord and savior that means"?

In order for any person to say that, it is necessary for God first to change that person's heart. Nobody in this life ever does that on their own initiative.

Revelation 22:11 says of those people, "Let the evildoer still do evil, and the filthy still be filthy."

 

[Sola_Fide]

The biblical answer is that God has the same freedom in electing infants and mentally handicap people as he does adults.

In other words, salvation--being justified before God--in no way depends on the will of man, but the will of God.

 

[Kludge]

Good question. What about those that are special (mentally challenged)? What about those who lived before Jesus walked the Earth?

It's widely debated among protestants, at least. I was raised to believe kids are given an exemption until they're old enough to accept Jesus as Lord & Savior knowing what that entails, suggesting God isn't a by-the-books judge. Catholics would contest that, saying kids need to be baptized so they're saved from Hell via "original sin," so they're protected until they commit "actual sins." Jews prior to Jesus go to "Abraham's bosom" (interpreted by our pastor to be purgatory where the soul "sleeps" until Judgment), and for those who couldn't possibly know about Jesus - I was raised to believe they go to Hell due to the failure of Christians to be Missionaries.

The problem with the OP question, ofc, is that the answer can't be found, only speculated about. Baptists & Catholics can read the same passage and come to very different conclusions which'd be the difference between probably billions going to Hell or not. Best thing to do in such a situation is to cover your ass, IMO. Sprinkle your newborns with water, swing dead chickens over your head, do a public baptism immediately after being able to understand what accepting Jesus really means, visit Mecca at least once in your life, and stick to a strict vegetarian diet (so those chickens you plan on swinging around will need to have died of natural causes...). I think it would also be prudent to chant the Turkey Curse at those attending your Baptism and write a letter of support to Satan using your blood. I'm not sure how far you can go with that last one before Jesus will revoke your access pass to Heaven, so be careful. Good luck!

 

[Sola_Fide]

What if some random Athiest dies, sees God for his judgement, and goes "ooops, I guess you do exist. You're my lord and savior that means"?

Believing God exists is not the basis of salvation. Even the demons believe in God, and tremble.

Salvation is when you become aware of how wretched, evil, and dead in sins you really are...and believe that it is Christ's blood alone that is able to justify you before a holy and just God who will by no means clear the guilty.

Salvation is looking to Christ alone. It's having the revelation that nothing in yourself merits your salvation.

 

[YumYum]

Believing God exists is not the basis of salvation. Even the demons believe in God, and tremble.

Salvation is when you become aware of how wretched, evil, and dead in sins you really are...and believe that it is Christ's blood alone that is able to justify you before a holy and just God who will by no means clear the guilty.

Salvation is looking to Christ alone. It's having the revelation that nothing in yourself merits your salvation.

Is there a scripture that supports that theory? Jesus rebuked His followers for having not enough faith. But He never said what it is they should put faith in.

People that are "saved" are "chosen". They don't "choose" themselves.

So, an individual can "become aware of how wretched, evil, and dead in sins you really are...and believe that it is Christ's blood alone that is able to justify you before a holy and just God who will by no means clear the guilty...looking to Christ alone", but if they aren't "chosen", everything you mentioned is meaningless, because they won't have salvation.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Best thing to do in such a situation is to cover your ass, IMO. Sprinkle your newborns with water, swing dead chickens over your head, do a public baptism immediately after being able to understand what accepting Jesus really means, visit Mecca at least once in your life, and stick to a strict vegetarian diet (so those chickens you plan on swinging around will need to have died of natural causes...). I think it would also be prudent to chant the Turkey Curse at those attending your Baptism and write a letter of support to Satan using your blood. I'm not sure how far you can go with that last one before Jesus will revoke your access pass to Heaven, so be careful. Good luck!

My friend, these are all works....and there is not a work you can do to justify yourself before God. Your works are filthy rags in His sight. They mean less than nothing.


No man is justified before God by doing works. This is the heresy at Galatia that Paul specifically corrected:

Galatians 2:16

"nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh will be justified."

Salvation is looking ONLY to the finished work of Christ and believing that ONLY His blood can atone for your sins. This is the gospel itself.

 

[Krugerrand]

My friend, these are all works....and there is not a work you can do to justify yourself before God. Your works are filthy rags in His sight. They mean less than nothing.


No man is justified before God by doing works. This is the heresy at Galatia that Paul specifically corrected:




Salvation is looking ONLY to the finished work of Christ and believing that ONLY His blood can atone for your sins. This is the gospel itself.

Please clarify how "faith in Christ Jesus" is not a "work." Can the newborn of the OP have faith?

 

[Sola_Fide]

Please clarify how "faith in Christ Jesus" is not a "work." Can the newborn of the OP have faith?

Faith is not works. There is no need for clarification. Read the verse I just posted. Id say the majority of the New Testament is a discussion of how faith is not works.

Yes newborns can have the same faith that adults have. Faith is not something that originates within a person, it is a gift of God that He gives when He regenerates a person. God has the same freedom in electing and causing faith to occur in babies and adults.

 

[Krugerrand]

Faith is not works. There is no need for clarification. Read the verse I just posted. Id say the majority of the New Testament is a discussion of how faith is not works.

Yes newborns can have the same faith that adults have. Faith is not something that originates within a person, it is a gift of God that He gives when He regenerates a person. God has the same freedom in electing and causing faith to occur in babies and adults.

My hold up probably stems from experiences with those who insist the 'ticket to heaven" is regurgitating a line about accepting Jesus as your personal Lord and savior. The "line regurgitation" sounds a lot like a "work."

I appreciate your response above.

 

[erowe1]

Please clarify how "faith in Christ Jesus" is not a "work." Can the newborn of the OP have faith?

I honestly don't know if a newborn can have faith. But it's at least conceivable.

All saving faith is a gift from God (Ephesians 2:8-9). And I don't see why God can't give that gift to someone even at the very moment of their conception if it His plan for them to die and go to heaven prior to birth. Just as human beings become guilty of Adam's sin before they willfully and knowingly appropriate it, we can hope that human beings who do not mature to the point of being able to love or hate God can also appropriate Christ's righteousness without doing so knowingly and willfully (Romans 5:12-18).

2 Samuel 12:19-23 gives me reason to believe that hope isn't without merit.

But when David saw that his servants were whispering together, David understood that the child was dead. And David said to his servants, "Is the child dead?" They said, "He is dead." 20 Then David arose from the earth and washed and anointed himself and changed his clothes. And he went into the house of the LORD and worshiped. He then went to his own house. And when he asked, they set food before him, and he ate. 21 Then his servants said to him, "What is this thing that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive; but when the child died, you arose and ate food." 22 He said, "While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, 'Who knows whether the LORD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?' 23 But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."

I hope that God's plan is something like that, or more likely something better that I've never thought of.

On the other hand, even if a newborn goes on to endure God's punishment as a sinner, God does not punish all sinners equally, and He never punishes anyone beyond what they actually deserve. Whatever kind of punishment that could mean for someone who never matured to the point of willful disobedience, if we were to know what it was, we would recognize it as perfectly just and not a bit more.

 

[Sola_Fide]

Is there a scripture that supports that theory?

I really don't know if you are a troll YumYum, but I'm going to assume that you are really trying to understand the gospel. So I am going to try to answer your questions earnestly.

Okay. Is there a Scripture to support the theory that faith in Christ's blood alone is necessary for salvation? Well, that is like asking if there is a verse that says God exists. Um, yeah...there are verses that say this. In fact, it would be hard to read a page in the Bible that doesn't point to the necessity of Christ's atoning blood in salvation, Old and New Testament. But here is one if you really need one:

Rom. 5:9

"Much more then, having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from the wrath of God through Him."

Originally posted by YumYum

Jsus rebuked His followers for having not enough faith. But He never said what it is they should put faith in.

Yes He did. Many times. Here is one:

John 8:24

"Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins."

Originally posted by YumYum

People that are "saved" are "chosen". They don't "choose" themselves. So, an individual can "become aware of how wretched, evil, and dead in sins you really are...and believe that it is Christ's blood alone that is able to justify you before a holy and just God who will by no means clear the guilty...looking to Christ alone", but if they aren't "chosen", everything you mentioned is meaningless, because they won't have salvation.

The person who has become aware of their sins and aware that it is Christ's blood alone that can save Him from a just God IS the person who has been chosen.

Faith only occurs in the person whom God chooses and enables to believe.

 

[YumYum]

I really don't know if you are a troll YumYum, but I'm going to assume that you are really trying to understand the gospel. So I am going to try to answer your questions earnestly.

Okay. Is there a Scripture to support the theory that faith in Christ's blood alone is necessary for salvation? Well, that is like asking if there is a verse that says God exists. Um, yeah...there are verses that say this. In fact, it would be hard to read a page in the Bible that doesn't point to the necessity of Christ's atoning blood in salvation, Old and New Testament. But here is one if you really need one:

Yes He did. Many times. Here is one:

The person who has become aware of their sins and aware that it is Christ's blood alone that can save Him from a just God IS the person who has been chosen.

Faith only occurs in the person whom God chooses and enables to believe.

You didn't mention just His blood. You said: "Salvation is when you become aware of how wretched, evil, and dead in sins you really are...and believe that it is Christ's blood alone that is able to justify you before a holy and just God who will by no means clear the guilty."

You said we have to recognize that we are "wretched and evil". I asked you a serious question: What scriptures support your position. I'm not saying that there isn't one; I sincerely want to know. So, no, I'm not a "troll", whatever that is supposed to mean. If talking about God means insulting people and calling them names, I must ask: just who is this God you profess to serve?

I don't have to think of myself as "evil" to have God's favor. That is not what the gospels teach. What I am not supposed to do is elevate myself to think of myself as being better than anyone else. But this teaching that everyone is vile and evil is not what Jesus taught. Some churches teach that to keep their dummies in submission.

The scriptures teach that God is looking for honest-hearted ones. He is right now searching the world over, examining not only people's hearts, but "their kidneys". (Jer 11:20)

When you private messaged me to tell me how messed up I am in my beliefs, I asked you if you knew what it is that God is looking for when He chooses someone? You never replied, so I will tell you. He is choosing those who have no "deception in their hearts". That is why God chose Nathanael to be one of Jesus' apostles. Nathanael wasn't "aware of his sinful nature", and yet God chose him before he knew anything:

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to Him, and said of him, "Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no deceit!"

John 1:47 (NASB)

The NIV translates it:

When Jesus saw Nathanael approaching, he said of him, "Here is a true Israelite, in whom there is nothing false."

So, while those that God chooses are sinners, they have no deceit in their hearts. That means that they sin because they are "weak", not because they are "evil" and "wicked". "Evil" and "wicked" people will be destroyed, Jesus makes that clear. When those with no "deceit in their hearts" learn about Jesus and recognize that they are sinners, they turn away from their sinful lifestyles and follow Him. They are not in denial of what they have done in the past, nor of the fact that they need Him in their life, but they accept that they are a sinner and are willing to surrender and be "born again".

But again, unless God chooses them, they can roll on the floor and shake, play with snakes, talk in tongues and do other great works in Jesus name, they are nothing but "evildoers" according to Jesus. That is because they have deceitful hearts.

Jesus was emphatic that only a "few" will receive everlasting life. Do you know what "few" means?

In contrast, He said that the road that leads to destruction was "broad and spacious", and "many" were going to be destroyed. (Matthew 7)

The bottom line: To gain salvation you have to be chosen by God, and to be chosen you have to have no deceit in your heart, even though you are a sinner.