By God He's Learning - Glenn Beck is Almost Down the Rabbit Hole!

I'm wondering if I should merge all these 'by Jove, I think he's got it!' threads. I for one don't want to keep repeating that he did the same thing with Ron and 'libertarianism' to prove his own 'credentials' and then endorsed SANTORUM during the election...

but by all means enjoy the exposure while it lasts and before the poison pills start creeping in..... (wow he's great on all these issues, now if we could only find someone 'saying' the same thing who ALSO......'
 
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The only good sign I get from beck pandering to the libertarians is that they see us as a threat, perhaps a growing force, and an oportunity for them to either capitalize on or co-opt our movement. I believe he can love Rand all he wants - its his choice. I'm sure Rand is smart enough to know who Beck really is.

For me, outside of his being a tell-tail indication of wind direction, I see Beck as a worthless shill - just in case I failed to mention that in the last dozen threads. I'll not be joining "The Blaze", or "Beck TV", or purchasing any "Monopoly, Glenn Beck edition" board games. He should not waste his time pandering to me... Great, Glenn.. you think you got it finally... Just like you thought you thought you'd had it before.. Ok, now pi$$off already.

FWIW - I would fully support a consolidated "glenn has seen the light, again - for real this time" thread.
 
At least Beck doesn't poison the well by taking good issues and mixing them with 9/11 truth and conspiracy garbage.

Beck is worse because he doesn't do that. We need to shock people into awareness sometimes. Imagine a scenario, if you would, where many of the "conspiracy theories" that we are supposed to reject are actually valid and true. Would you want people to know about them then? That just happens to be the case. The "conspiracy theories" are not conspiracy theories. They are facts. Many of them actually did happen. I'm not so sure about 9/11 myself, but all that aside, most of the others are completely true, including the Kennedy assassination, the NWO, project MK Ultra, which Clinton publically admitted to, and many others. Our government really is doing things behind our backs that are not in our interests. The stigma that has been placed on conspiracies needs to stop because awareness of the evils of government is what protects us from tyranny. That's exactly how the founding fathers thought. Suspicion of government was a good thing, and it still is a good thing.
 
I can only hope that SOME people listening to Beck will go beyond Beck's "understanding" and truly learn about liberty. In that regard, I consider Beck to be beneficial to liberty at this point in time. If he turns out to be a snake (I'd say 50% chance) then we move on with hopefully more people than we started with due to his inadvertent promotion of the right ideas.

I'd say cool the criticism of him for now but watch him and listen. If he's a snake, he will say just enough truth to get thousands thinking and if he's for real, he will himself become more effective in promoting the message and of course, he will be fired...

The fact that he hasn't been "ousted" already should tell you what you need to know.

When do you think you are actually going to find out whether he's a snake or not? There won't be any great moment of realization because he has intentionally muddied the waters and will continue to do so. He will always involve elements of liberty and elements of statism, but there has been enough statism for me already that makes him a statist. I would stay far away from him. If you haven't found out yet, you're never going to because he's made it this way on purpose, but he's been mocking and ridiculing small government "kooks" on his radio show far too long for me to find hope in his pandering to one of the issues we find important. He's a statist. There's no two ways about it.
 
I have to disagree, here. I don't think we should give folks like this rhetorical cover. I mean, I get that they quote-unquote see it differently, but that doesn't mean we should agree to disagree, necessarily. If I call myself an african-american female, even though I do not possess at least one of the key characteristics of being an african-american female, would you just say, "okay, you're an african-american female... even though you're a white dude"? You'd either consider me terribly misinformed about what it means to be an african-american female, stupid, or insane.
I agree with you. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that you disagree with Beck's interpretation of the NAP. But that's not what people are doing, they are saying "he's not libertarian" because he has a different interpretation of the NAP when it comes to the Middle East. This is inaccurate and unfair of us for several reason, including: the NAP is not what defines a libertarian! The union under the NAP was a political strategy used to unite the two major competing libertarian sects at the time of the creation of the Libertarian Party. There are many schools of libertarianism which don't subscribe to the NAP at all! ...at least Beck isn't one of those types of libertarians.

Beck can say he agrees with libertarians on a lot of things, but he can't call himself a libertarian; or at least we shouldn't give him rhetorical cover when he does.
I don't know when we became the word police movement--let alone the word police without any historical understanding of the various definitions of libertarianism. This kind of thinking is exactly why libertarians rarely win elections, because they focus on differences rather than commonalities ("he's not like us!").
Again, he is either seriously misinformed about what it means to be a libertarian (he's had it explicitly explained to him by Judge Napolitano, specifically referencing the NAP), stupid, or insance.
That's our brand of libertarianism; that's not all or the only brand of libertarianism. Some libertarians fall into the belief camps of "the end justifies the means" category where they're permitted to attack (or kill) if it leads to a greater good and an overall increase in freedom (I call these wackos "neo-libertarians"; but technically it's not an accurate description, since "neo-libertarians" have been around longer than our brand of libertarianism). And there's plenty of other brands of libertarianism that are more exotic than even that.

I think it's a combination of the two latter options. He has conjured up in his head this existential threat posed by a bunch of two-bit middle eastern countries without a single nuclear weapon amongst them, and turned it into a justification for internventionism, which he has specifically endorsed in regards to Iran.
I think you're right. But it's not like those two-bit middle eastern countries did nothing to make Beck think this (they do engage in some pretty awful hate speech and often legalized oppression or terror in the name of Shariah Law). If those two-bit countries changed their rhetoric, Beck would likely chill out a bit in the same way he chills out when Rand changes the rhetoric of Ron Paul. As it is, those countries hurt their own causes (assuming, and it's a big assumption since they've never publicly said it while they have said the exact opposite, they only want Americans to leave them alone) by using rhetoric which makes dudes like Beck and Americans at large see jihadists under every bed.
Again, I get that he has this abiding fear of Islamic extremism, but he does not understand both where it comes from, or what the actual level of threat is. He's allowed that fear to consume him to the point that he advocates violating the NAP, which is fine in and of itself, but then he isn't really a libertarian.
I don't think it's a violation of the NAP; it's just a tortured stretch of the NAP which none of us are comfortable with.

In my view, one of the real problems with people calling Beck un-libertarian: they have no real understanding or historical knowledge of libertarianism beyond their own ideology.
 
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So were you equally critical of Amash when he came out in favor of Iran sanctions and became a co-chairman of Arab Americans for Romney? I think people hold a double standard for Rand just because of his surname.

So you went from Beck to Rand Paul to Amash? Ok fine I'll play. So if you haven't noticed, Rand Paul has a bigger profile then Amash so I don't follow Amash quite as closely as Rand Paul. But you are right, I do think he along with Massie are some of the best people there in D.C.

Please show me where Amash voted to sanction Iran, and I will follow with this comment. I think Amash is a great congressmen but I am not happy about his vote to sanction Iran.

I don't really care about him being co-chairman of Arab Americans for Romney because I do distinctly remember him saying that he would NOT endorse anyone else for President this past election cycle.

Any other questions?
 
I agree with you. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that you disagree with Beck's interpretation of the NAP. But that's not what people are doing, they are saying "he's not libertarian" because he has a different interpretation of the NAP when it comes to the Middle East. This is inaccurate and unfair of us for several reason, including: the NAP is not what defines a libertarian! The union under the NAP was a political strategy used to unite the two major competing libertarian sects at the time of the creation of the Libertarian Party. There are many schools of libertarianism which don't subscribe to the NAP at all! ...at least Beck isn't one of those types of libertarians.

I don't know when we became the word police movement--let alone the word police without any historical understanding of the various definitions of libertarianism. This kind of thinking is exactly why libertarians rarely win elections, because they focus on differences rather than commonalities ("he's not like us!"). That's our brand of libertarianism; that's not all or the only brand of libertarianism. Some libertarians fall into the belief camps of "the end justifies the means" category where they're permitted to attack (or kill) if it leads to a greater good and an overall increase in freedom (I call these wackos "neo-libertarians"; but technically it's not an accurate description, since "neo-libertarians" have been around longer than our brand of libertarianism). And there's plenty of other brands of libertarianism that are more exotic than even that.

First, I think we both understand that libertarianism, as I'm using it, is both the movement we each subscribe to generally speaking, as well as the popularly acknowledged definition. Noam Chomsky's usage of libertarian doesn't get near the popular acknowledgement that our usage does.

That being said, I have to disagree with you - I don't disagree with Beck's interpretation of the NAP - he's flat wrong about it. Again, he could call himself a black female, but he's not. And no one other than the stupid, the insane, or the most poorlyl informed would agree with him.

I think you're right. But it's not like those two-bit middle eastern countries did nothing to make Beck think this (they do engage in some pretty awful hate speech and often legalized oppression or terror in the name of Shariah Law). If those two-bit countries changed their rhetoric, Beck would likely chill out a bit in the same way he chills out when Rand changes the rhetoric of Ron Paul. As it is, those countries hurt their own causes (assuming, and it's a big assumption since they've never publicly said it while they have said the exact opposite, they only want Americans to leave them alone) by using rhetoric which makes dudes like Beck and Americans at large see jihadists under every bed.
I don't think it's a violation of the NAP; it's just a tortured stretch of the NAP which none of us are comfortable with.

Insects can be scary. But people who imagine insects crawling all over them to the point that they scratch and beat themselves to the point of bruising, bleeding and scarring aren't rational. They're insane. I don't say that those people just have a different understanding of insects than I do; I say that they are terrified to the point of self-destruction of something that isn't there. Again, insects can be scary; but a rational understanding of the threat they pose is integral to sanity.

Additionally, if Beck proposed burning all of nature as a consequence of his irrational fear of insects, I wouldn't consider that an interpretation of reality that I just don't agree with; I would consider that to be insane.


In my view, one of the real problems with people calling Beck un-libertarian: they have no real understanding or historical knowledge of libertarianism beyond their own ideology.

Beck's use of "libertarian" jibes with neither our - and the popular - usage of that word, nor any other definition of the word. He's not a Chomskyite. He's not a Paulian. He's not a Rothbardian.

Everytime someone comes along and calls himself a libertarian does not mean that we are obligated to yet again expand the definition of the word. There is almost NO usage of the word libertarian under which Glenn Beck legitimately fits.
 
First, I think we both understand that libertarianism, as I'm using it, is both the movement we each subscribe to generally speaking, as well as the popularly acknowledged definition. Noam Chomsky's usage of libertarian doesn't get near the popular acknowledgement that our usage does.

That being said, I have to disagree with you - I don't disagree with Beck's interpretation of the NAP - he's flat wrong about it. Again, he could call himself a black female, but he's not. And no one other than the stupid, the insane, or the most poorlyl informed would agree with him.



Insects can be scary. But people who imagine insects crawling all over them to the point that they scratch and beat themselves to the point of bruising, bleeding and scarring aren't rational. They're insane. I don't say that those people just have a different understanding of insects than I do; I say that they are terrified to the point of self-destruction of something that isn't there. Again, insects can be scary; but a rational understanding of the threat they pose is integral to sanity.

Additionally, if Beck proposed burning all of nature as a consequence of his irrational fear of insects, I wouldn't consider that an interpretation of reality that I just don't agree with; I would consider that to be insane.



Beck's use of "libertarian" jibes with neither our - and the popular - usage of that word, nor any other definition of the word. He's not a Chomskyite. He's not a Paulian. He's not a Rothbardian.

Everytime someone comes along and calls himself a libertarian does not mean that we are obligated to yet again expand the definition of the word. There is almost NO usage of the word libertarian under which Glenn Beck legitimately fits.
Well, you and I are in agreement on all that.
 
The fact that he hasn't been "ousted" already should tell you what you need to know.

When do you think you are actually going to find out whether he's a snake or not? There won't be any great moment of realization because he has intentionally muddied the waters and will continue to do so. He will always involve elements of liberty and elements of statism, but there has been enough statism for me already that makes him a statist. I would stay far away from him. If you haven't found out yet, you're never going to because he's made it this way on purpose, but he's been mocking and ridiculing small government "kooks" on his radio show far too long for me to find hope in his pandering to one of the issues we find important. He's a statist. There's no two ways about it.

Exactly WHEN he is revealed as a snake will be different for each of us. For some it will be when he takes and anti-liberty position on drones, for some maybe the issue will be drugs, but we will each watch him closely and determine for ourselves when we cast him aside (many, it is clear have already done so and for justifiable reasons). For me, I believe in giving people a chance to change and if he is sincere, I will know it fairly soon. I will certainly NOT wait until an election cycle to give him a chance to F*#K us again...
 
Exactly WHEN he is revealed as a snake will be different for each of us. For some it will be when he takes and anti-liberty position on drones, for some maybe the issue will be drugs, but we will each watch him closely and determine for ourselves when we cast him aside (many, it is clear have already done so and for justifiable reasons). For me, I believe in giving people a chance to change and if he is sincere, I will know it fairly soon. I will certainly NOT wait until an election cycle to give him a chance to F*#K us again...

So you're saying that it's completely ambiguous whether you view him as a snake or not? He's already proven he is, and we're still arguing about it on here. Apparently he can do all that other anti-liberty stuff, but you're just waiting until he says something about your pet issue THEN he's gone too far.

Until he says something about your pet issue, just stay in the dark. It's perfectly fine to ignore his obvious disdain for small government and liberty-oriented views. /s

Some people may change, but not people whose careers depend on being an expert propagandist.
 
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" By God He's Learning - Glenn Beck is Almost Down the Rabbit Hole!


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meh, Beck is just looking for a niche. Apparently he has found one. I do not believe for a minute that he is a libertarian.
 
meh, Beck is just looking for a niche. Apparently he has found one. I do not believe for a minute that he is a libertarian.

To be fair to those claiming he is evolving, I tuned into his show this morning... In the 20 minutes that I listened to him I heard:

1) same old tired left/right argument with some Marxism charges thrown in.... Nothing about liberty vs. tyranny

2) Blaze promotion begging people to call their cable providers to pick it up

3) How a jacket is the best way to conceal a weapon

Waste of airspace IMO.
 
Beck seems very confused when he implies that libertarians don't understand the need for personal responsibility. He's very out of touch if he actually believes (or "believed" since this video is probably a year and a half old) this.
 
If Beck were all that irrelevant, Medina might be governor of Texas. If Beck were all that irrelevant, there's no way he could have been the subject of so many threads. Saying the Propaganda Machine is irrelevant is ridiculous on the face of it. If it didn't work, GE and Westinghouse and all the Military Industrial Complex would never have become so heavily invested in it.

If Genn Bleck wants to say something nice about Rand Paul, I'm all for it too. But if you go around telling people to tune in to this Judas Goat, you're either our enemy or a damned fool. And that's what all this is about.
Perry was in no real trouble and coasted to victory. Being very generous Medina's 9/11 truther gaff might have cost her 7-8% of the vote.
 
Hmm... my recollection is that it was a pretty close race right up to that point. In fact, during the Texas Gubernatorial debates, I believe she was leading at one point. That was what prompted Beck to have her as a guest, if I recall correctly.

I was listening that day, and it seemed to me to be a rather obvious hit job.
 
Hmm... my recollection is that it was a pretty close race right up to that point. In fact, during the Texas Gubernatorial debates, I believe she was leading at one point. That was what prompted Beck to have her as a guest, if I recall correctly.

I was listening that day, and it seemed to me to be a rather obvious hit job.
Not really. Medina was on the up swing, but KBH was still ahead of her and Perry was way out front. They only had a few debates, which Medina performed well in, but she lacked the campaign cash to really showcase herself and increase her name ID. Perry and KBH had tens of millions to take their message to the voters. Prior to the gaff she was polling around 25% and ended up getting 18% of the vote. That drop seems about right considering Beck's Texas connection and how he plays in that state. It was a rookie mistake, everyone makes them; Rand certainly had his getting into a philosophical argument with Maddow. That was probably the most valuable lesson Rand ever took from the media. I think Medina's could be a learning experience for her and make her stronger in the future.
 
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