Breaking: Paris shootings and explosions near Stade de France kill 129

[Brian4Liberty]

Now that's a very good question. Especially if France was in an alleged "high state of readiness" prior to this attack.
What was, if I may ask, your response Brian?

They came in shooting, not politely opening their bags.

 

[euphemia]

At least one of the terrorists was flagged by French intelligence as having connections with ISIS. Short of arresting him on his association, there isn't much the French government could have done.

This is not like most other organized crime where someone would commit a crime, go to jail and get out to commit more crime. ISIS is a movement where the perps take themselves out during or after the fact. I'm not sure what a liberty solution to that would be except to say, "If you've been to Syria, you can't come here. If this plane originates from Syria, or pickes up anyone from Syria, it can't land here. We are not going to take passengers to connect with Syrian flights, and we will not allow planes in our airspace that have been to Syria."

We might not be able to arrest people who are here, just based on their associations, but I think we can make it very difficult for terrorists to go overseas, train with ISIS, then come back here to carry out a plan.

 

[Indy Vidual]

I'm beginning to suspect that the smartest folks here are quiet in this matter because they realize that the information is so inaccurate and incomplete that it's a waste of time and energy to comment.

Have the "false flag" articles started flying around the web, yet?
Edit: Yes...

 

[dannno]

I agree. Armed security, or concert goers.

I really like going to concerts and festivals and have never felt the need for heavily armed security..

Are we going to be seeing heavily armed security at concerts now?

I have no issue with the guns or people arming themselves - I have an issue with the fact that our foreign policy is causing a situation where some people feel the need for this.

 

[navy-vet]

They came in shooting, not politely opening their bags.

I see....
Then it appears that it was a failure of an adequate amount of French security.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

More details are coming out, US music group EODM was playing at the concert:

U.S. band Eagles of Death Metal was headliner at Paris concert hall under siege

November 13, 2015
A California rock band was the headliner at a Paris concert hall Friday where death and horror unfolded during coordinated terror attacks in the French capital.
Jesse "Boots Electric" Hughes, one half of the leading duo of the hard-rock group Eagles of Death Metal, is believed to have been in the Bataclan concert hall when terrorists stormed in.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-playing-during-paris-attacks-calif/75738580/

Bataclan theater long a target of anti-Zionist groups, report says

Eagles of Death Metal, the US band performing at theater when the attacks began, played in Tel Aviv’s Barby club in July

November 14, 2015, 1:30 pm
French magazine Le Point said early Saturday that the Bataclan theater, targeted in Friday night’s Paris terror attacks, has for years been the target of anti-Zionist groups as its Jewish owners often put on pro-Israel events.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/bataclan-theater-long-a-target-of-anti-zionist-groups-report-says/

 

[mrsat_98]

Wikipedia has Full Coverage of Paris Massacre Less than Two Hours after the Event

http://goldenageofgaia.com/2015/11/14/wikipedia-full-coverage-paris-massacre-less-two-hours-event/

Wikipedia has Full Coverage of Paris Massacre Less than Two Hours after the Event

Thanks to the reader who identified the IP address (82.45.236.70) as belonging to a block of addresses assigned to VirginMedia Consumer Broadband UK.

The massacre in Paris is reported to have occurred at 21:16 CET.

By 23:06 Wikipedia had an article up that is extremely detailed, containing statements from a former French President and a complete outline of events at several locations, matters that the press I read had not by then reported.

It piqued my interest that an article would be up on Wikipedia within two hours of the event happening. So I went there.

I began reading the current version of the article and then decided to read a much earlier version. I chose the 23:18 version for this article, not overly consciously. At that point I did not understand very much.

By the time I got myself organized here, I saw that the earliest versions of the article had just been erased from Wikipedia’s change record. Everything before 00:00 was erased from the record, preventing access to the originals of the story. That aroused my suspicions immediately.

(That list of deleted versions was gotten again by going to the user page of the person who wrote the article, known only by his number 82.45.236.70. The list appeared there and the articles proved linkable and recoverable. You can reach them, until they’re taken down, by clicking on the list given in Footnote 1.)

The 23:18 version includes discussions of the hostage-taking, complete with an approximate number of hostages involved (60), as well as detailed accounts of events at several locations. It even has a detailed bibliography. How could your average Wikipedia author have done this incredible piece of work and in less than two hours? Obviously this was not your average Wikipedia author.

You’re invited to read this early version of the Wikipedia article, which appears at the bottom of this post.

Revisions were subsequently made to the article. But the storyline it established, which is undoubtedly why it was written in the first place and gotten into Wikipedia so quickly, did not change through any of those revisions. It’s the storyline that the article is designed to make stick in the public mind.

As yet (00:41 PM CET), the newspapers are reporting simply bullet lists of events which they’re aware of only very sketchily. But Wikipedia has extensive coverage. within a couple of hours. That just did not sit with me and I continued to investigate.

In some cases, reports on the cabal’s handiwork have been posted and time-stamped before the event. That has not happened in this case. The black-ops people seem to have gotten better at their handiwork. Nonetheless such full reportage only roughly two hours after the event, for me, still pointed to collusion.

Or did they?

On closer inspection, after this article was initially written, I’ve found a comment so implausible that it closed the case for me.

In the 23:06 version is this comment: MORE AT THE LINK

 

[Peace&Freedom]

Good point. And this is an opportunity for Rand.



We will see what happens next (other than calls to take out Assad, and step up aggression against Iran and Russia.)

The opportunity here is to demand a declaration of war for any actions taken, if expansion can not be avoided. This would be in line with a Constitutional conservative position in the Congress.

This Declaration should contain the following:

- Repeal of all past AUMFs.
- A strict definition of the territory (nation) of ISIS (ie. action only in ISIS territory in the former Iraq and Syria).
- Explicitly state that this does not authorize use of force against any other sovereign nation. No bombing in any other nation.
- Explicitly state the goal. Ie. elimination of ISIS as a nation with territory. This is not an ongoing war against territory-less organizations, ISIS or otherwise.
- Explicitly state that this will only be carried out in support of allies in NATO, and in no way will be pursued as a unilateral effort or even primarily funded by the US.
- Explicitly give timetables, and expiration of this Declaration/AUMF.
- Explicitly state that nothing in this AUMF overrides the Constitution and Bill of Rights.
- Explicitly state that nothing in this AUMF grants the Executive Branch any additional power and authority, other than to carry out the mission outlined in the Declaration.
- Explicitly state that any action deemed necessary outside of this Declaration requires an amendment to this Declaration.
- Explicitly state that this will not be a nation-building exercise. This is an authorization for war, not foreign aid.
- Explicitly state strict budget and spending controls on this actions carried out under this Declaration.


And that's just a start of the restrictions for any new Declaration of War, made necessary by the abuse of the previous AUMF by the Executive Branch.

And of course, while this outline is 1000% perfect, it will never, ever pass in the current Congressional pass-the-buck to the Imperial Presidency era. The War Party does not want any limits on the impulse to use (and keep using) military force, that was the whole reason why they abandoned declarations as per the Constitution. All they want is pretext ("A theater got attacked? Drop the bombs!"), and unilateral leeway for the Executive to launch/re-launch a military op. The whole point is to sustain a framework that insists upon instant response and indefinite engagement as the default approach, in the wake of which any reasonable process must be set aside.

Such a limitless setup gives the regime the option to fabricate the entire conflict via false flags where needed (which is why the basic "we're under a real threat" premise of the WOT must be consistently confronted, if we are going to get anywhere). A vote on the proposal would serve an educational function, thus is a good interim step, but until the fear drumbeat created by false flags is openly challenged and exposed, the mechanics of these buildups to more intervention will keep on rolling, and nothing will change.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I see....
Then it appears that it was a failure of an adequate amount of French security.

Soft targets are soft.

Hard military targets are regularly attacked. There is no such thing as an adequate amount of security when there are suicide attackers.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

And of course, while this outline is 1000% perfect, it will never, ever pass in the current Congressional pass-the-buck to the Imperial Presidency era. The War Party does not want any limits on the impulse to use (and keep using) military force, that was the whole reason why they abandoned declarations as per the Constitution. All they want is pretext ("A theater got attacked? Drop the bombs!"), and unilateral leeway for the Executive to launch/re-launch a military op. The whole point is to sustain a framework that insists upon instant response and indefinite engagement as the default approach, in the wake of which any reasonable process must be set aside.

Such a limitless setup gives the regime the option to fabricate the entire conflict via false flags where needed (which is why the basic "we're under a real threat" premise of the WOT must be consistently confronted, if we are going to get anywhere). A vote on the proposal would serve an educational function, thus is a good interim step, but until the fear drumbeat created by false flags is openly challenged and exposed, the mechanics of these buildups to more intervention will keep on rolling, and nothing will change.

Yep, that's why a constitutional conservative would have to vote "no" on a Declaration of War that fails to take reasonable, rational, appropriate, fiscally conservative and Constitutional measures.

 

[OReich]

More details are coming out, US music group EODM was playing at the concert:

U.S. band Eagles of Death Metal was headliner at Paris concert hall under siege

November 13, 2015
A California rock band was the headliner at a Paris concert hall Friday where death and horror unfolded during coordinated terror attacks in the French capital.
Jesse "Boots Electric" Hughes, one half of the leading duo of the hard-rock group Eagles of Death Metal, is believed to have been in the Bataclan concert hall when terrorists stormed in.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-playing-during-paris-attacks-calif/75738580/

Bataclan theater long a target of anti-Zionist groups, report says

Eagles of Death Metal, the US band performing at theater when the attacks began, played in Tel Aviv’s Barby club in July

November 14, 2015, 1:30 pm
French magazine Le Point said early Saturday that the Bataclan theater, targeted in Friday night’s Paris terror attacks, has for years been the target of anti-Zionist groups as its Jewish owners often put on pro-Israel events.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/bataclan-theater-long-a-target-of-anti-zionist-groups-report-says/

you refuse to answer the question: Where should Israel's six million Jews go?

First question is, how many are from there originally and how many are migrants persecuted out of judeo-christian western civilizations of New York, London, Miami, LA, Germany, Paris, Poland, Russia etc?
How many of them have occupied lands/homes of 4-6 millions Palestinians who are refugees abroad as a result of Israeli wars for freedom/racial equality?

Then this should be handled on case by case basis.

Congratulations on your 5000th post blaming all the world's problems on Israel, I think you win a free Quran now. You advocate for the violent, coercive, physical, bloody, statist expulsion of millions of innocent Jewish men, women and children from Israel. You find a way to blame anything Muslims do on Israel, yet you describe Jewish children walking down the sidewalk as criminals for being in the country they were born in. What if an 8 year old is the great granddaughter of Jews kicked out of the Islamic State (it was called Syria and Iraq all the way back then), should Palestinian soldiers physically take control of the 8 year old girl and stick her on a plane to the Islamic State? Half of Israel's Jews are refugees or descendants of refugees from Muslim countries, like the Islamic State.

And what about the Muslims moving to Israel/Palestine in the same time period? Should they be expelled? Or is it just the Jews?

Oh and your refugee numbers are totally wrong; Muslims kicked out more Jews (stealing more land) over the exact same time period, but the UN (and its 40 Muslim dictators whining for Israel's destruction, like you) defines anyone born to Palestinian refugees as refugees, so the number grows and grows for all eternity. The UN doesn't count children born to Jewish refugees (or anyone else) in the same way, because there aren't 40 Jewish dictators in the UN calling for the destruction of every Muslim state.

 

[enhanced_deficit]

OReich why Israel does not want attacks on ISIS? Other questions would be better discussed in the controversial lavon affair/andrew adler scandal thread.


Israel ‘Concerned’ over US War On ISIS

 

[euphemia]

Soft targets are soft.

Hard military targets are regularly attacked. There is no such thing as an adequate amount of security when there are suicide attackers.

Indeed. If the news crawl on the SEC/ESPN network is true, then at least one of the homicide bombers at the soccer match had a ticket to the game. The explosive vest was discovered when he was frisked by security. He detonated his device as he backed away from security.

 

[presence]

Well I come in through your window
I see your family there
Well I'm the midnight creeper
When I go creepin' y'all better beware
Your child is gently sleeping
Pleasant dreams are in his head
That wife of your's a sweet young thing
When I leave your wife will be dead
Well my steel is sharp and silent
The devil guides my hand
Well I just love to slit them throats
And creep all around this land

Read more: Eagles Of Death Metal - Midnight Creeper Lyrics | MetroLyrics
​

 

[wizardwatson]

Well, 25% of my FB friends have a Frenchy flag.

Apparently the Ruskies didn't qualify with their plane crash that killed more people. Maybe Zuckerberg and Putin aren't friendly.

Not sure what qualifies as a tragedy. Is it the brutality? In that case we should all be flying Iraqi and Syrian flags. Or maybe Sudan.

Anyway, it isn't like the Russians ever did anything for us. Except maybe deal with the business end of Hitler's forces and save the world from global Nazism (thankfully we just have USA centered Nazism now).

I don't know anymore. I think there's not enough fluoride in my water maybe.=.

 

[navy-vet]

Soft targets are soft.

Hard military targets are regularly attacked. There is no such thing as an adequate amount of security when there are suicide attackers.

The Israelis figured it out, didn't they?
I don't how old you are, but I remember when the Jews were getting planes hijacked and citizens blown away in their markets, and buses etc. by gunmen and bombs all the time....and now it's practically non-existent. Just to an occasional stabbing or model rocket attack every once in awhile.

 

[navy-vet]

Well, 25% of my FB friends have a Frenchy flag.

Apparently the Ruskies didn't qualify with their plane crash that killed more people. Maybe Zuckerberg and Putin aren't friendly.

Not sure what qualifies as a tragedy. Is it the brutality? In that case we should all be flying Iraqi and Syrian flags. Or maybe Sudan.

Anyway, it isn't like the Russians ever did anything for us. Except maybe deal with the business end of Hitler's forces and save the world from global Nazism (thankfully we just have USA centered Nazism now).

I don't know anymore. I think there's not enough fluoride in my water maybe.=.

Are your teeth rotting?

 

[enhanced_deficit]

Well, 25% of my FB friends have a Frenchy flag.

How things change in few years.

 

[navy-vet]

How things change in few years.

oh yeah, I forgot about that...

 

[PaleoPaul]

Hah, wow, Freedom Fries was Walter Jones' idea?!