Bin Laden Killed? Who's buying it?

Which is it?


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Osan, I had the same thoughts as well. I don't believe for a second that the military-industrial complex is too dense to understand blowback; on the contrary, I think they know exactly how to create endless business for themselves. This is completely aside from the truth regarding Osama's death.
 
What are the chance we knew exactly where he was & this "takeout" could have happaned @ anytime?
 
What are the chance we knew exactly where he was & this "takeout" could have happaned @ anytime?
 
OK, this thread is humming along at a fast clip, so in case this has been raised by another already, pardon my slow reading habit.

There are three possibilities that stand out with regard to the question at hand: either he has recently died, he died prior, or he isn't dead at all.

If we assume Obama... erm, I mean, OSAMA, is in fact no longer among we the living, and if in fact he died a while back, the central question that arises would not be why his death was concealed (answer to that is elementary), but why is he being announced as having been recently killed? What purpose may this serve and who might stand to benefit from it?

It could be a "reelect me 'cuz I be bad" ploy by Osama... erm, I mean OBAMA, but the timing seems far less than optimal for that, so I'd scratch it for now. What does that leave? Chasing Osama has been one of the cornerstone justifications for spending a billion dollars a day in Eye-Rack and Afghan. Killing him off in this manner would seem a bit of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, would it not? If so, then why would so valuable an asset in the war for public mind-share be retired? There would have to be a very significant reason - but what?

One particularly paranoid notion that crosses my mind is that of the possible utility of martyrdom for those holding the reins of the US military. If we announce to the world that we succeeded in knocking off the sacred Osama, no doubt certain elements of the Muslim world are going to go wholesale native. If I were in charge of all of this mess and if in fact the protection of the people and interests of the United States were my foremost goal, after killing Bin Laden I would swear everyone to eternal secrecy precisely to deny the fanatics their martyr. If, however, my goal is something other than the interests and safety of the American people, making this announcement would be handing them their martyr on a silver platter. This move seems ever so transparently in contravention to anything sensible that I cannot help but question the motives of those making it.

The next question, of course, is "why?" The obvious and perhaps even the correct answer is "power". By martyring OBL, we provide our enemies with an icon that serves to raise and maintain the drive to make war against the infidel. This, of course, guarantees standing, low-intensity warfare punctuated with occasional burst activity for many decades to come. The threat brings the wagons at home into a circle and makes the crushing of any dissenting voice far less onerous in the mind of Johnny Q. Such oppression would, in fact, most likely be welcomed by many because of the false sense of security and order it provides the intellectually bereft nervous nellie.

Of course, it is entirely possible that he really did die just the other day. Any takers?

I like how you are thinking. I don't have a crystal ball but I can think of many reasons this would be advantagous to "them".

1. Their military budget is threatened and they needed to scare those in congress wanting cuts (think about how they managed to pass the banker bailout packages with threats of economy collapse). A few future blowback activities (real or contrived) would serve the purpose of swaying congress.

2. Obama and Co. needed a win so the people had a reason to support him in 2012.

3. Not bagging OBL after a trillion dollar war was becoming a liability as opposed to a justification.

4. Reignite the people's patriotism and their will for war (one just has to watch the video of the buffoons celebrating to see how well that worked out).

5. Reignite the patriotism of those serving in the military and their will for war.

6. Further stirring the middle east hornets nest in hopes of major retaliation....."they" want WWIII.

7. If # 6 doesn't happen.....they will be performing false flag ops in the US themselves in the near future and will be saying they happened in retaliation of killing OBL.

8. All of the above plus a bunch of other perks.
 
I did not vote in the poll. After reading the posts concerning Bin Laden over the last 24 hours, I am going to make a prediction.

Bin Laden conspiracy theorists are going to cost Ron Paul the presidency. That is my prediction.

I don't know or care if he is dead now or died in 2001 or died in 2003 or died in 2007. It really makes no difference to the issue of needing to end these horrendous wars. Our focus should be on bring the troops home from all these needless wars, not bickering over non-issues.

Trying to spread this idea that the official story is not true is not a smart idea. Even if they lied through their teeth, it really does not matter at this point. We can sort through the rest of the lies and political garbage that our government tries to give us later after Ron Paul is elected. Trying to spread that stuff now or during the campaign will only hurt our cause.
 
I did not vote in the poll. After reading the posts concerning Bin Laden over the last 24 hours, I am going to make a prediction.

Bin Laden conspiracy theorists are going to cost Ron Paul the presidency. That is my prediction.

I don't know or care if he is dead now or died in 2001 or died in 2003 or died in 2007. It really makes no difference to the issue of needing to end these horrendous wars. Our focus should be on bring the troops home from all these needless wars, not bickering over non-issues.

Trying to spread this idea that the official story is not true is not a smart idea. Even if they lied through their teeth, it really does not matter at this point. We can sort through the rest of the lies and political garbage that our government tries to give us later after Ron Paul is elected. Trying to spread that stuff now or during the campaign will only hurt our cause.

I also did not vote in this poll because I do not yet know the truth. However, I am fully convinced that the truth is much harder to hide in 2011 than it was in 2001 because the truth telling power of the Internet is upon us.

My prediction is that the relentless truth seeking conspiracy theorists will be the ones putting Ron Paul in the White House because the truth is what sets us free.
 
I did not vote in the poll. After reading the posts concerning Bin Laden over the last 24 hours, I am going to make a prediction.

Bin Laden conspiracy theorists are going to cost Ron Paul the presidency. That is my prediction.

I don't know or care if he is dead now or died in 2001 or died in 2003 or died in 2007. It really makes no difference to the issue of needing to end these horrendous wars. Our focus should be on bring the troops home from all these needless wars, not bickering over non-issues.

Trying to spread this idea that the official story is not true is not a smart idea. Even if they lied through their teeth, it really does not matter at this point. We can sort through the rest of the lies and political garbage that our government tries to give us later after Ron Paul is elected. Trying to spread that stuff now or during the campaign will only hurt our cause.

Take a stroll to the liberal democratic underground and see how they are taking it, even people in my community college class are doubting this dead and mind you, most of these people do not even know what a conspiracy theory is. So please stop trying to make it into a Ron Paul supporter thing. People just want to see more evidence and thats why I voted "No"

Reagan said it best "trust but verify"
 
My prediction. Morons who swallow the lies will vote for the next warmongering president and cost RP the Presidency.

nice one. It amazing how many people are buying the govt story from a group of people know for their distrust of the govt.
 
This is no different to the 9/11 conspiracy which Ron doesn't publicly back. The masses are going to believe the Obama lie. They'll swallow it, so you have to roll with it and use it to your own advantage as best you can. Now Osama is dead, bring the troops home or.. Ask the question how a small team infiltrated Osama's compound when 10 years of bombing Afghanistan and Pakistan did nothing.

One day I want to see this fraud exposed on all the newspapers with the headline:

"Obama bin Lying"
 
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nice one. It amazing how many people are buying the govt story from a group of people know for their distrust of the govt.

I am encouraged by the poll numbers though. If this had happened back in 2007, the poll numbers would have been flipped in the other direction and the forum mob would be calling for the hanging of the tin foil hatted conspiracy theorists here. The forum is getting more savvy to this kind of psyops.
 
This is no different to the 9/11 conspiracy which Ron doesn't publicly back. The masses are going to believe the Obama lie. They'll swallow it, so you have to roll with it and use it to your own advantage as best you can. Now Osama is dead, bring the troops home or.. Ask the question how a small team infiltrated Osama's compound when 10 years of bombing Afghanistan and Pakistan did nothing.

One day I want to see this fraud exposed on all the newspapers with the headline:

"Obama bin Lying"

Yeah. Except this time people are asking questions immediately. I'm hearing "good ole boys" calling in to talk radio and asking "Why did they get rid of the body so fast? Why no pictures? And who gives a flip about Islamic tradition?"
 
Yeah. Except this time people are asking questions immediately. I'm hearing "good ole boys" calling in to talk radio and asking "Why did they get rid of the body so fast? Why no pictures? And who gives a flip about Islamic tradition?"

Yeah, Dr. Paul brought this up in the NPR interview and asked, "Why does the government invite conspiracy theories with their actions" then compared it to Hussein and how there were pictures and such. Then brought up how he didn't think it was possible to do a DNA confirmation so quickly, to which he says the administration backtracked on that claim.
 
I like how you are thinking. I don't have a crystal ball but I can think of many reasons this would be advantagous to "them".

1. Their military budget is threatened and they needed to scare those in congress wanting cuts (think about how they managed to pass the banker bailout packages with threats of economy collapse). A few future blowback activities (real or contrived) would serve the purpose of swaying congress.

2. Obama and Co. needed a win so the people had a reason to support him in 2012.

3. Not bagging OBL after a trillion dollar war was becoming a liability as opposed to a justification.

4. Reignite the people's patriotism and their will for war (one just has to watch the video of the buffoons celebrating to see how well that worked out).

5. Reignite the patriotism of those serving in the military and their will for war.

6. Further stirring the middle east hornets nest in hopes of major retaliation....."they" want WWIII.

7. If # 6 doesn't happen.....they will be performing false flag ops in the US themselves in the near future and will be saying they happened in retaliation of killing OBL.

8. All of the above plus a bunch of other perks.

I think we will have to sit back and see where the msm tries to push public perception in order to know what the benefit is of disclosure of the terrorist boogey man's death. I think he was no longer providing the steam they needed and too many people had come to assume he was dead for whatever reason. The fact they were so quick to inform the public that this increases the terror alert status lets us at least know it wasn't to decrease military or security budgets. They are instead increasing the paranoia so look for possibly even more invasive so called security measures.

Another possibility is to use Bin Laden's death as motivational propaganda for Libya and Qaddafi. Apparently this is not completely far fetched because in pondering a brief search turned up :If US killed Osama bin Laden, ask Libyans, why not assassinate Qaddafi? http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Midd...Laden-ask-Libyans-why-not-assassinate-Qaddafi

Libya seems to be somewhat of a mirror image to Pakistan only a more accelerated version.
 
I am encouraged by the poll numbers though. If this had happened back in 2007, the poll numbers would have been flipped in the other direction and the forum mob would be calling for the hanging of the tin foil hatted conspiracy theorists here. The forum is getting more savvy to this kind of psyops.

Actually 9/11 truth polls have typically gone with the truthers, but not to such a wide margin. What's different from 2007 is that these "deather" threads aren't being immediately shuffled off to "hot topics" like 'truther" threads have traditionally been and how "birther" threads were until maybe a few months ago. Now that Ron Paul has on the record raised some of the same questions[1] about the OBL killing, the "shut up or you'll hurt Ron Paul" crowd won't have a leg to stand on with this particular "conspiracy theory". The consensus seems to be gelling around "It's okay to demand proof, just don't put forward your own theory claiming you know exactly what happened like OBL's been on ice in Crawford Texas." I'm cool with that.

[1] See: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?290578-Reminder-Ron-Paul-will-be-on-NPR-tomorrow
 
I am encouraged by the poll numbers though. If this had happened back in 2007, the poll numbers would have been flipped in the other direction and the forum mob would be calling for the hanging of the tin foil hatted conspiracy theorists here. The forum is getting more savvy to this kind of psyops.
As a relative newbie to this forum, I'm glad to hear that.

I'm not talking about anyone here or even OBL's death specifically, but in general I get really irked by people who use the "tin foil hat" line in knee-jerk fashion on anyone who expresses suspicion about a government coverup. Such people are willfully blind at best and, more probably, complete idiots -- although they undoubtedly see themselves as being "more-reasonable-than-thou" and "levelheaded."

The reason it's idiotic to dismiss the possibility of a conspiracy outright is that the US government is KNOWN to have engaged in conspiracies in the past. This isn't even controversial, and many of these conspiracies were more egregiously evil than faking OBL's death would be.

How many Americans know that US officials once plotted to stage terrorist attacks, possibly including the killings of innocent people, and then blaming those attacks on Castro to fool the public into supporting a US invasion of Cuba? The actual declassified papers pertaining to this plot, known as "Operation Northwoods," are freely available online.

James Bamford summarizes Northwoods as follows:

Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Bertstare and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

How many know that the US government used to conduct experiments on innocent US and Canadian citizens without the knowledge or consent of the latter?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKULTRA

How many know about COINTELPRO?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

Or the Office of Special Plans that manipulated the evidence to justify an invasion of Iraq?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Special_Plans

How many remember how the Pentagon's attempt to spin the recovery of Jessica Lynch into propaganda?

Initial media reports on Lynch's recovery in Iraq were incorrect. Lynch, along with major media outlets, fault the U.S. government for creating the story as part of the Pentagon's propaganda effort.[2][3][4][5] Jim Wilkinson is credited for fabricating the government narrative.[6]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jessica_Lynch

These are just a few of the conspiracies that have actually become public knowledge. Is it sensible to assume that there have been no others? No, it is not. Most likely, these are only the tip of the iceberg.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with those who believe the official story about OBL's killing. I think the story is highly suspicious, but maybe reasonable people can disagree about that. Where reasonable people cannot disagree is on the question of US government conspiracies in general. There HAVE been such conspiracies, and that is an indisputable fact. No doubt that if Operation Northwoods had been carried out and anyone had suggested it was a government conspiracy, those people would have been labeled "kooks" and "tinfoil hat-wearers," too.
 
Only a fool would believe everything the MSM tells them

Dead since 12-2001
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41576,00.html

Usama bin Laden has died a peaceful death due to an untreated lung complication, the Pakistan Observer reported, citing a Taliban leader who allegedly attended the funeral of the Al Qaeda leader.

However we can accept as Gospel a FoxNews story based on a story in the Pakistan Observer who quoted an unnamed Taliban leader....


... I believe this is known as cherry picking.
 
One particularly paranoid notion that crosses my mind is that of the possible utility of martyrdom for those holding the reins of the US military. If we announce to the world that we succeeded in knocking off the sacred Osama, no doubt certain elements of the Muslim world are going to go wholesale native.

I neglected to mention an equally likely possibility: the expectation by portions of the non-Muslim world that these elements will go apey. That is all that is needed. Do note that thus far there has been little outward indication of rage, even by those we would come to expect to make such expressions. Perhaps Osama was not quite so universally admired? No problem. The "west" has been sufficiently led to expect a contingent of little towel-headed apes to go loco, at least leaveing open the option for some operation or even just the introduction of a new set of assertions to justify further usurpations of power and incursions against personal freedom.
These days such assertions appear to be all that is required, the public mainly no longer even questioning such maneuvers.

It appears that the road has been well paved for the continuing march into fully abject and effectively chattel-status slavery. At times, the only questions remaining to me are whether any boundary of tolerance even exists anymore and if it does, what will be required by those in power to break a log jam? How far would they go in the event of truly significant push-back? Personally, I suspect that nothing is off the table. The higher the threat against the globalist agenda, the higher the risks "they" would be willing to take to keep the reins of power firmly in hand.

But who knows, perhaps I have it all wrong and the world is actually run by a group of benevolent people - or perhaps no such group even exists and the world is trudging along from day to day in an uncoordinated, haphazard manner as the stories of the mainstream media would suggest.
 
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