Beck's rally broadcast live on C-SPAN

[Southron]

Well, its not as simple as that. Almost every religion condemns those that are not followers of like faith. Even Jesus, who I admire and respect, talked about Judgment Day. The problem with people of different religions is when they take it upon themselves to start judging and punishing others, instead of waiting on their Higher Power to do the killing for them.

To some extent Christians must judge others who call themselves Christians. It is essential to preserve the church's integrity. Anyone who calls themselves a Christan is fair game imo.

Edit. Apologies for further thread derailment.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Yes it is as simple as that. It is not for us to judge whose religion is right or wrong. That has more to do with the closed mindedness of humanity and less with a core belief in doing what is right - which is to love and be loveable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

Panentheism (from Greek πᾶν (pân) "all"; ἐν (en) "in"; and θεός (theós) "God"; "all-in-God") is a belief system which posits that God exists and interpenetrates every part of nature, and timelessly extends beyond as well. Panentheism is distinguished from pantheism, which holds that God is synonymous with the material universe.[1]

Briefly put, in pantheism, "God is the whole"; in panentheism, "The whole is in God." This means that the Universe in the first formulation is practically the Whole itself, but in the second the universe and God are not ontologically equivalent. In panentheism, God is not necessarily viewed as the creator or demiurge, but the eternal animating force behind the universe, some versions positing the universe as nothing more than the manifest part of God. In some forms of panentheism, the cosmos exists within God, who in turn "pervades" or is "in" the cosmos. While pantheism asserts that God and the universe are coextensive, panentheism claims that God is greater than the universe and some forms hold that the universe is contained within God.[2] Hinduism is highly characterized by Panentheism and Pantheism[3].

You might also look at the spiritual teachings of Steven Gaskin and the Farm in Summersville TN, that basically say all religions have merit and basically teach the same things.

-t

 

[YumYum]

To some extent Christians must judge others who call themselves Christians. It is essential to preserve the church's integrity. Anyone who calls themselves a Christan is fair game imo.

Edit. Apologies for further thread derailment.

I don't get that from anything that Jesus taught. Jesus condemned the rich and the Jewish leaders. He also lost it and overturned the moneychangers tables. But he gave a command to his followers to "love one another", and the problem that Christians get into is when they start claiming that they are the "true" followers of Christ. So, a person can be judged as not being Christian, not necessarily because they commit gross sins such as adultery or murder, but just because they believe differently from the mainstream teachings of Christendom.

Getting back to Beck, does he as a Mormon, accept all faiths as being the right way to G-d and salvation? Because if he does, then he is going against the teachings of the Mormon faith, which is according to them, " the true faith".

My point: trying to unite religions is either hypocritical or a political/religious stunt to gain everyone's approval.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

Right. I believe in God and don't belong to a church. Prayer en masse does not contradict prayer in private. Both are good and both are needed. There's a passage in the bible that reads something like: where there are two or more gathered in my name, I am among you.

Do not look for me in houses of wood and stone. Lift a stone and you will find me, break a piece of wood and I am there. - Gospel of St Thomas

It's basically saying don't trust organized religion, and is the primary reason this book got pulled from the bible.

Steven has said that you shouldn't waste your time looking for god, but that you should be god.

it's a different perspective...

-t

 

[puppetmaster]

I don't get that from anything that Jesus taught. Jesus condemned the rich and the Jewish leaders. He also lost it and overturned the moneychangers tables. But he gave a command to his followers to "love one another", and the problem that Christians get into is when they start claiming that they are the "true" followers of Christ. So, a person can be judged as not being Christian, not necessarily because they commit gross sins such as adultery or murder, but just because they believe differently from the mainstream teachings of Christendom.

Getting back to Beck, does he as a Mormon, accept all faiths as being the right way to G-d and salvation? Because if he does, then he is going against the teachings of the Mormon faith, which is according to them, " the true faith".

My point: trying to unite religions is either hypocritical or a political/religious stunt to gain everyone's approval.

All religions are the "True Faith" in their opinions.....

thats the problem.....Beck is part of that problem.....

 

[YumYum]

Do not look for me in houses of wood and stone. Lift a stone and you will find me, break a piece of wood and I am there. - Gospel of St Thomas

It's basically saying don't trust organized religion, and is the primary reason this book got pulled from the bible.

Steven has said that you shouldn't waste your time looking for god, but that you should be god.

it's a different perspective...

-t

Jesus said the same thing in the Book of John. The Samaritan woman told Jesus: " 'Sir, I perceive you are a prophet. Our forefathers worshiped in this mountain, but you people say that in Jerusalem is the place where persons ought to worship.' Jesus said to her: 'Believe me, woman. The hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you people worship the Father'."

John 4: 20-23

He went on to say: "...the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him'."

 

[BlackSand]

God is not a puppetmaster. We have free will, which means we get make our own choices. I personally don't think it matters what your religion is. The basic tenet of all religions is to love and be loveable. Where is the harm in that?

*facepalm* sorry, I wasnt clear. I was talking about puppetmaster who had posted before me. I didnt call god a puppet master. My bad. haha

And I am mormon, so I feel I understand better where Beck is coming from. As far as I know, hes never really talked in depth about Mormon doctrine. But I can tell you that what he did at that rally wouldnt be condemned by our church (unless it was done for political purposes, which some of you would say is true).

But my church often says "There is truth in all religion, they just dont have the full restoration of the truth." Which means this to me. If someone has a choice of being Catholic, or atheist, I would encourage them to be catholic. Because that way they could still get in touch with their spiritual side, and the catholic religion still teaches good things.

 

[YumYum]

All religions are the "True Faith" in their opinions.....

thats the problem.....Beck is part of that problem.....

A question I have, and maybe someone on this forum who is a Mormon can answer, is how does the Mormon Church feel about Glenn Beck patronizing other religions, which, according to the Mormons, are "false"?

 

[BlackSand]

A question I have, and maybe someone on this forum who is a Mormon can answer, is how does the Mormon Church feel about Glenn Beck patronizing other religions, which, according to the Mormons, are "false"?

Love it. We dont want to be the religion that condemns everyone if they dont follow our beliefs absolutely. We try to be as kind as possible, and as a whole, treat all religions with respect.

I dont even like that you used "false". All religions have truth to varying degrees. To call a religion 'false' seems to condemn everything they do and believe.

 

[YumYum]

Love it. We dont want to be the religion that condemns everyone if they dont follow our beliefs absolutely. We try to be as kind as possible, and as a whole, treat all religions with respect.

I dont even like that you used "False". All religions have truth to varying degrees. To call a religion 'false' seems to condemn everything they do.

So, what you are saying is that I don't have to become a Mormon to gain everlasting salvation and have G-d's approval?

 

[BlackSand]

So, what you are saying is that I don't have to become a Mormon to gain everlasting salvation and have G-d's approval?

Actually a really complicated issue. We believe that people are judged by the knowledge that they have. So a person that never learned about Christ cant be condemned for not following him. So I cant really judge whether someone can be saved or not cause I dont know what they know, or the chances theyve had at expanding their knowledge of God, or the times theyve felt the spirit and ignored it...etc. Its very individual. Only God knows intentions and knowledge and all that stuff.

Edit: I feel like I didnt do a good job at capturing the whole picture. So Im also going to add this. Third Article of Faith: We believe that through the atonement of Jesus Christ all mankind may be saved by obedience to the principles and ordinances thereof. (Quoted from memory, so the exact phrasing might be off). The ordinances spoken of are baptism by immersion, a temple ordinance, being sealed for time and all eternity with your spouse. I think those are the big three. If you want to understand this better then youre going to have to go to the church site (Mormon.org) and look up baptisms for the dead. That would probably explain the concept pretty well.

This has been a non profit advertisement.

 

[erowe1]

Do not look for me in houses of wood and stone. Lift a stone and you will find me, break a piece of wood and I am there. - Gospel of St Thomas

It's basically saying don't trust organized religion, and is the primary reason this book got pulled from the bible.

Steven has said that you shouldn't waste your time looking for god, but that you should be god.

it's a different perspective...

-t

The Gospel of Thomas didn't "get pulled from the Bible." It was written in the 2nd century and was accepted as Scripture by a gnostic offshoot of Christianity that didn't have a robust and coherent enough theology to be able to survive. So those who accepted it as Scripture died off in short order with no converts. And outside their circles, Christians never accepted it as Scripture to begin with, so when they rejected it, they were just rejecting what they had always rejected, they weren't removing it from some status as Scripture that it at one time had for them.

It's also not a very good source for authentic sayings of Jesus. The only historically reliable sayings in it are the ones that are paralleled in the much earlier gospels that you can still read in a New Testament today. And even for those sayings, Thomas doesn't provide an independent source for them, but only got them by copying them from those gospels, as has been shown by instances where Thomas includes elements that can be attributed to the redactional work of those earlier gospel's authors.

 

[tangent4ronpaul]

The Gospel of Thomas didn't "get pulled from the Bible." It was written in the 2nd century and was accepted as Scripture by a gnostic offshoot of Christianity that didn't have a robust and coherent enough theology to be able to survive. So those who accepted it as Scripture died off in short order with no converts. And outside their circles, Christians never accepted it as Scripture to begin with, so when they rejected it, they were just rejecting what they had always rejected, they weren't removing it from some status as Scripture that it at one time had for them.

It's also not a very good source for authentic sayings of Jesus. The only historically reliable sayings in it are the ones that are paralleled in the much earlier gospels that you can still read in a New Testament today. And even for those sayings, Thomas doesn't provide an independent source for them, but only got them by copying them from those gospels, as has been shown by instances where Thomas includes elements that can be attributed to the redactional work of those earlier gospel's authors.

don't think so - have a source?

-t

 

[erowe1]

don't think so - have a source?

-t

Sure. You can read the section on the Gospel of Thomas in volume 1 of John Maier's series of books on the historical Jesus, A Marginal Jew. If you can get ahold of Christopher Tuckett's article, “Thomas and the Synoptics,” Novum Testamentum 30 (1988), that would be even better.

 

[silentshout]

God is not a puppetmaster. We have free will, which means we get make our own choices. I personally don't think it matters what your religion is. The basic tenet of all religions is to love and be loveable. Where is the harm in that?

The harm doesn't come from that..it comes when the religion and government work together to deny rights to either people who don't believe in the same thing or have the "wrong" lifestyle.

 

[silentshout]

I get confused between this one and panendeism. I find philosophies like this fascinating, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

Panentheism (from Greek πᾶν (pân) "all"; ἐν (en) "in"; and θεός (theós) "God"; "all-in-God") is a belief system which posits that God exists and interpenetrates every part of nature, and timelessly extends beyond as well. Panentheism is distinguished from pantheism, which holds that God is synonymous with the material universe.[1]

Briefly put, in pantheism, "God is the whole"; in panentheism, "The whole is in God." This means that the Universe in the first formulation is practically the Whole itself, but in the second the universe and God are not ontologically equivalent. In panentheism, God is not necessarily viewed as the creator or demiurge, but the eternal animating force behind the universe, some versions positing the universe as nothing more than the manifest part of God. In some forms of panentheism, the cosmos exists within God, who in turn "pervades" or is "in" the cosmos. While pantheism asserts that God and the universe are coextensive, panentheism claims that God is greater than the universe and some forms hold that the universe is contained within God.[2] Hinduism is highly characterized by Panentheism and Pantheism[3].

You might also look at the spiritual teachings of Steven Gaskin and the Farm in Summersville TN, that basically say all religions have merit and basically teach the same things.

-t