Backstabbing Republicans Publish Open Letter To Iran Undermining Negotiations

[phill4paul]

At what point does playing them become being played?

 

[Brian4Liberty]

You should. When it gives power and impetus to those that would keep us at war. We used to believe in that on "Liberty" forums. Guess not anymore.

This was pretty much a symbolic measure. The face-value meaning was that Congress needs to approve international agreements. Of course the neoconservatives have other plans, but the letter itself did not spell them out. And one of their motives was to try to trap Rand into not signing, and attack him on that.

We all have our own opinions on a whole range of subjects, including everyone here on this forum. When it comes to candidates, I try to go by the 80/20 rule. More agreement is better. We will never find another 99% agreement candidate. There was only one.

 

[phill4paul]

This was pretty much a symbolic measure. The face-value meaning was that Congress needs to approve international agreements. Of course the neoconservatives have other plans, but the letter itself did not spell them out. And one of their motives was to try to trap Rand into not signing, and attack him on that.

We all have our own opinions on a whole range of subjects, including everyone here on this forum. When it comes to candidates, I try to go by the 80/20 rule. More agreement is better. We will never find another 99% agreement candidate. There was only one.

It wasn't symbolic. It had tangible results. It wasn't happenstance that Tom Cotton did an M.I.C. gig afterward. The money will not flow from this avenue to Rand. It won't gain him "brownie points." It will flow to the neocons. That's "aiding and abetting" in my book. If those on this forum are declaring that he is just running a game do you really believe that the opposition does not know that and are leading him by the nose? There's a winner here. It ain't Rand. And it ain't the "Liberty" movement....

 

[Natural Citizen]

At what point does playing them become being played?

I think that, ultimately, the real game was just to re-popularize the GOP in a short term way for the purpose of putting a Republican in the White House. Rand, really, is the only mechanism for that to be able to happen. And I think Rand understands his role here.

At the end of the day, though, if he does get a nomination I'd certainly vote for him. I don't think that will happen. And I don't think he is serious about actually running for the office anyhow. Again, he is a Republican, and I think he understands his role in the short term scheme of things as it pertains to the political interests of the Republican party.

 

[Natural Citizen]

We will never find another 99% agreement candidate. There was only one.

Yeah? Who? I don't personally believe that 99% of the critical the issues have been presented and debated. Heck, 90% of them haven't even been mentioned as far as I can recall.

When we talk about 99%, what are we actually talking about? In other words, what is on the 100% version of that "issues" list?

 

[phill4paul]

I think that, ultimately, the real game was just to re-popularize of the GOP in a short term way for the purpose of putting a Republican in the White House. Rand, really, is the only mechanism for that to be able to happen. And I think Rand understands his role here.

At the end of the day, though, if he does get a nomination I'd certainly vote for him. I don't think that will happen. And I don't think he is serious about actually running for the office anyhow. Again, he is a Republican, and I think he understands his role in the short term scheme of things.

I joined the Ron Paul "Revolution" to stop the pendulum swing. Not give weight to pushing it into an equally destructive bob.

 

[Brett85]

I think I've just kind of come to the conclusion that I'm going to just have to continue to hold my nose on stuff like this, because Rand is the best we have. I think he just feels that he has to move closer to the mainstream of the Republican Party to have any real chance to win the GOP nomination. Whether that strategy will work or not remains to be seen.

 

[phill4paul]

I think I've just kind of come to the conclusion that I'm going to just have to continue to hold my nose on stuff like this, because Rand is the best we have. I think he just feels that he has to move closer to the mainstream of the Republican Party to have any real chance to win the GOP nomination. Whether that strategy will work or not remains to be seen.

You just go ahead and hold your nose. Winning means holding your nose. Even if it is the lesser of evils. You are a winner. A man of conviction. One to be applauded.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I joined the Ron Paul "Revolution" to stop the pendulum swing. Not give weight to pushing it into an equally destructive bob.

Well. I haven't got to the Revolution part yet. I'm still working on the Renaissance. There can be no so called Revolution if a Renaissance isn't able to run it's course or even come into fruition. At the moment, what we are seeing happen is a kind of political disruption of that awakening. In fact, an opposing force. Is why I bring up that old phrase about the Stalking Horse once in a while. Look that up, btw. There is a wiki page.



I agree with you though. I do. I just don't accept that a so called Revolution exists. Need a Renaissance before that can happen. And this is happening despite so called "games" that, frankly, exist as a roadblock to the phenomenon.


Phil, I'm going to share 3 minutes of reality with you. I hope you take the time to have a listen. Because you aren't alone. You're not. Not by a long shot. Regardless of what anyone says, the numbers speak for themselves. And it scares the hell out of the them. Make no mistake about that.



I'll tell you, though, it's not Rand Paul that I take issue with. I like Rand. It's his "supporters" that pluck me. But specifically the ones who narrate the terms of controversy in such an American Idolish kind of way and in a public setting. Like we're stupid or something. And we have a kind of new brand of political people who have blended into our circles that compound it. I think they actually do junior more disservice than they know. Of course, I'm not the smartest person in the world and I certainly don't claim to be but I know a little bit about a little bit in terms of local and geo-political issues and goings-on.

 

[fr33]

The Iranian government is not stupid. They probably have read and understand the US constitution. Do the Republicans and Iranians realize how irrelevant the constitution has become to the US government? I don't know. Probably a lot of both groups do.

 

[phill4paul]

Well. I haven't got to the Revolution part yet. I'm still working on the Renaissance. There can be no so called Revolution if a Renaissance isn't able to run it's course or even come into fruition. At the moment, what we are seeing happen is a kind of political disruption of that awakening. In fact, an opposing force. Is why I bring up that old phrase about the Stalking Horse once in a while. Look that up, btw. There is a wiki page.



I agree with you though. I do. I just don't accept that a so called Revolution exists. Need a Renaissance before that can happen. And this is happening despite so called "games" that, frankly, exist as a roadblock to the phenomenon.


Phil, I'm going to share 3 minutes of reality with you. I hope you take the time to have a listen. Because you aren't alone. You're not. Not by a long shot. Regardless of what anyone says, the numbers speak for themselves. And it scares the hell out of the them. Make no mistake about that.



I'll tell you, though, it's not Rand Paul that I take issue with. It's his supporters. But specifically the ones who narrate the terms of controversy in such an American Idolish kind of way and in a public setting. Like we're stupid or something. I'm not the smartest person in the world and I certainly don't claim to be but I know a little bit about a little bit in terms of local and geo-political issues and goings-on.

That Renaissance started, here, in 2007. It should still be flourishing. It should have gained momentum. All there is now is a rehash of the "secret delegate" stratagem of 2012. If that doesn't sound like a reprise of the current political run then I don't know what does.

 

[Brett85]

You just go ahead and hold your nose. Winning means holding your nose. Even if it is the lesser of evils. You are a winner. A man of conviction. One to be applauded.

You can't implement any of your ideas if you don't win. That should be obvious. So it's important to win.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

As a Navy vet I get your nautical comparisons to the game that many here believe is being played. That game is not an easy one to play. But, there does come a time when one has to step back. This, I believe, was one of those times. I'm not believing that the neocons were privy to certain information. It was a partisan (neocon) shot to undermine the administration in its negotiations. It's purpose was to bolster the political bank accounts by the very industrial complex that we abhor. And it will do so. Not for Rand in my estimation.

No, it's not good for Rand. It was a bad idea. It's barely possible there was an "impossible choice." I disagree with the strategy, but I understand it. Because I understand it, I don't hate what he is trying to do, even if I do hate some of the things he's doing to get there. I would be less forgiving if the death of America were not immanent. I also think he would make fewer mistakes if the death of America were not immanent.

 

[Anti Federalist]

This was a catch-22 gotcha thing for Rand. And the neo-cons KNEW it.

Which is precisely why he should not have played.

 

[phill4paul]

Well. I haven't got to the Revolution part yet. I'm still working on the Renaissance. There can be no so called Revolution if a Renaissance isn't able to run it's course or even come into fruition. At the moment, what we are seeing happen is a kind of political disruption of that awakening. In fact, an opposing force. Is why I bring up that old phrase about the Stalking Horse once in a while. Look that up, btw. There is a wiki page.



I agree with you though. I do. I just don't accept that a so called Revolution exists. Need a Renaissance before that can happen. And this is happening despite so called "games" that, frankly, exist as a roadblock to the phenomenon.


Phil, I'm going to share 3 minutes of reality with you. I hope you take the time to have a listen. Because you aren't alone. You're not. Not by a long shot. Regardless of what anyone says, the numbers speak for themselves. And it scares the hell out of the them. Make no mistake about that.



I'll tell you, though, it's not Rand Paul that I take issue with. I like Rand. It's his "supporters" that pluck me. But specifically the ones who narrate the terms of controversy in such an American Idolish kind of way and in a public setting. Like we're stupid or something. And we have a kind of new brand of political people who have blended into our circles that compound it. I think they actually do junior more disservice than they know. Of course, I'm not the smartest person in the world and I certainly don't claim to be but I know a little bit about a little bit in terms of local and geo-political issues and goings-on.

In my defense "Revolution" was in quotation. And I agree. I am just getting to the point of disappoint anymore. This forum is not what it used to be. Or maybe I'm just mal-nostalgic. It's probably me. Ron's not Rand. I came here for Ron. I came here for those of like mind that supported him. With Rand I've gone from "I support him. He's Ron Pauls son." To "I won't contribute any money but I'll help him by giving time because he is Ron Pauls son." To " I'll not help in any way I'll still vote for him." To "Fugg it."

 

[Anti Federalist]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phill4paul again.

It wasn't symbolic. It had tangible results. It wasn't happenstance that Tom Cotton did an M.I.C. gig afterward. The money will not flow from this avenue to Rand. It won't gain him "brownie points." It will flow to the neocons. That's "aiding and abetting" in my book. If those on this forum are declaring that he is just running a game do you really believe that the opposition does not know that and are leading him by the nose? There's a winner here. It ain't Rand. And it ain't the "Liberty" movement....

 

[The Gold Standard]

The Iranian government is not stupid. They probably have read and understand the US constitution. Do the Republicans and Iranians realize how irrelevant the constitution has become to the US government? I don't know. Probably a lot of both groups do.

The U.S. government hasn't read, and doesn't understand, the U.S. constitution.

 

[phill4paul]

You can't implement any of your ideas if you don't win. That should be obvious. So it's important to win.

Winning is everything. Gotcha.

 

[Natural Citizen]

That Renaissance started, here, in 2007. It should still be flourishing. It should have gained momentum. All there is now is a rehash of the "secret delegate" stratagem of 2012. If that doesn't sound like a reprise of the current political run then I don't know what does.

Nah. What happened here in '07 was a product of the footwork that happened in the '80s. An extension of that which existed. Technology came along and many forgot how to pound pavement or never really learned to do it in the first place and in what was a tough environment to be heard. Of course, the opposite happened as well. A lot of good people became part of a new era of an awakening. And during the beginnings of an information infrastructure that simply didn't exist in the '80s. I read the forum a lot back then (07) but never participated or signed on until a few years later. I'd say that what evolved in '07 was an evolution stage in an existing cultural/political renaissance. It went digital. And for the better, to be fair.

Just have to keep on keeping on, man. Short term visionaries seldom finish the game. Sure, they get in the way sometimes. But then they go way. Has always been that way.

I've actually been taking a break from it myself but only to the extent of this kind of setting. I come in to check my messages and whatnot and maybe post a couple of updates on threads that I have that are pretty important. I'll tell you, it's nice getting back to 30 minute lunch meeting kind of routine and whatnot. Kind of like the good old days, really. Heh.

 

[phill4paul]

No, it's not good for Rand. It was a bad idea. It's barely possible there was an "impossible choice." I disagree with the strategy, but I understand it. Because I understand it, I don't hate what he is trying to do, even if I do hate some of the things he's doing to get there. I would be less forgiving if the death of America were not immanent. I also think he would make fewer mistakes if the death of America were not immanent.

You lost your seat on principle. You did not compromise. You earned my respect.

Do you regret your stance and subsequent actions?