"Attractive hazard" [Orlando Gator attack]

[SilentBull]

I don't think anyone has said they should be FORCED to put a sign there (I didn't) but I DO think it's bad business and had I owned the place, I would've had it on a sign.

^^^This. No one is talking about getting the government involved here. If that were my property, you bet I would put up signs all over the place and even make sure people are unable to get too close to the water by putting some kind of barrier. Not even because of my business. Because I'm not a fucking dick that wants to be responsible for a child's death.

Some of you guys are as bad as the douche who stripped naked at the convention. You really give libertarians a bad name.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

I have to say that is a good looking tranny...

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

Don't know if Disney has gator patrols or not but I think they should. With all of their money they ought to be able to hire some gator handlers that would be constantly scoping out the gator population and relocating any large gators to other swamps (or harvesting them). Any sighting of a gator over 3 feet should be responded to and removed. Yes, it would be a full time occupation but I think in the end it would cost them way less than both the lawsuit and lost revenue due to bad publicity...

 

[specsaregood]

A couple weeks back my kid brought home from the Tampa, FL airport a tshirt for me. Its green with an alligator and says, "Keep calm and swim faster". I'd wager you won't find that shirt on their shelves right about now. I'm gonna wear it around town this weekened, along with a Disney hat in poor taste and see if anybody says anything. If they do; i'll play stupid.

 

[presence]

Or are you just in blind denial that there is any scenario in which it is reasonable for you to let your visitors know about something that could very possibly kill them? Is there any such scenario in your mind?

Yes... Indeed there are such scenarios...

If I build a home... and leave a window loosely secured in the building... quit work for the day... then some kid comes up "trespassing" on the job site and the window falls out of its hole and crushes him...

"Attractive Hazard" (specifically that was the case where the term was coined)

If I'm building a home and I leave a power tool plugged in when I leave the site and some kid is injured....

"Attractive Hazard"

If I'm building a home... and some kid comes and trespasses... the site is safe and secure... but after dark and a lion tiger or bear eats him:

shit happens... if you don't want bad shit to happen to your kid.. then keep your eyes on them and use common sense. I'm only liable for artificial hazards and FREE WILD ANIMALS on my property are not artificial; it doesn't matter if they're in my artificial pond... pool... or hotel room. If I didn't take action to make that wild animal MY PROPERTY then it is not MY LIABILITY.

 

[Suzanimal]

shit happens... if you don't want bad shit to happen to your kid.. then keep your eyes on them and use common sense. I'm only liable for artificial hazards and FREE WILD ANIMALS on my property are not artificial; it doesn't matter if they're in my artificial pond... pool... or hotel room. If I didn't take action to make that wild animal MY PROPERTY then it is not MY LIABILITY.

Would you allow people to feed wild bears on your front porch and not warn the FexEx guy that they hang out there and have lost a natural fear of humans?

 

[presence]

Would you allow people to feed wild bears on your front porch and not warn the FexEx guy that they hang out there and have lost a natural fear of humans?

If someone came to my house and fed bears without my permission and never came back again... does that mean I'm obligated to report what that person did to every future visitor? If some old lady 4 miles away is known to feed bears...does that mean every land owner within the bears foraging region is responsible to report to all visitors there is an old lady feeding bears in town? I think not. This is my property and I don't feed bears. If I see someone feeding bears I ask them to stop. If they fail to stop I ask them to leave. If bears they fed attack someone subsequently... that's not on me if anything its on them. Does the not permitted or endorsed act of a an associate make something my property or liability? I think not. It might incur liability upon the individual that so attempted to domesticate the bear... but certainly not on me.




No matter where you go there are "apex predators" WE ARE IN THE FOOD CHAIN!

There is a huge warning sign right there when you enter the Disney theme park:

 

[Suzanimal]

If someone came to my house and fed bears without my permission and never came back again... does that mean I'm obligated to report what that person did to every future visitor?

No matter where you go there are "apex predators" WE ARE IN THE FOOD CHAIN!

There is a huge warning sign right there when you enter the Disney theme park:

What if people came to your house every single day and fed the bears without your permission? What if you noticed the bears were on your porch everyday waiting for food? Would you invite guests to watch a movie on your porch and not warn them that bears are in the bushes right next to the porch?

 

[presence]

What if people came to your house every single day and fed the bears without your permission? What if you noticed the bears were on your porch everyday waiting for food? Would you invite guests to watch a movie on your porch and not warn them that bears are in the bushes right next to the porch?

What if the old lady down the road fed the bear everyday without my permission?
The bear is just as much in my yard as hers... its just as much in everyone's yard in town.
So because that old lady I have no control over is feeding bears in town...
now every home owner in the region incurs responsibility?


What if my neighbor leaves corn fields open to deer... and the population gets out of hand... and the ticks breed... and my kid gets lyme disease! OMG! Ban corn fields!

Feeding of Alligators and Crocodiles in Florida is illegal. Statute 372.667 makes it a misdemeanor to feed Alligators or Crocodiles.

Above everything else feeding alligators is "criminal" in the state of Florida. So now I'm liable when people commit "crimes" without my permission?

Maybe Disney should be exposed to a huge civil asset forfeiture and the whole theme park should be taken by uncle; is it a "criminal establishment"? "Crimes" are regularly committed there.

 

[Suzanimal]

If someone came to my house and fed bears without my permission and never came back again... does that mean I'm obligated to report what that person did to every future visitor?

Nope and I never said Disney was obligated to warn people. I just think it's the right thing to do.

If some old lady 4 miles away is known to feed bears...does that mean every land owner within the bears foraging region is responsible to report to all visitors there is an old lady feeding bears in town? I think not.

I agree.

This is my property and I don't feed bears. If I see someone feeding bears I ask them to stop. If they fail to stop I ask them to leave.

Well, yeah. That makes sense. Disney didn't do that, though. Employees reported that they reported guests violating the no feeding rules regularly but management did nothing to stop it.

If bears they fed attack someone subsequently... that's not on me if anything its on them. Does the not permitted or endorsed act of a an associate make something my property or liability? I think not. It might incur liability upon the individual that so attempted to domesticate the bear... but certainly not on me.

If invited guests at your home fed bears from your porch and you knew about it and didn't stop them AND you decided it was a good idea to invite other guests to your home and show a movie on the front porch where the bears were used to being fed would you not warn them about the bears? I would.

No matter where you go there are "apex predators" WE ARE IN THE FOOD CHAIN!

Of course.

 

[Suzanimal]

What if the old lady down the road fed the bear everyday without my permission?
The bear is just as much in my yard as hers... its just as much in everyone's yard in town.
So because that old lady I have no control over is feeding bears in town...
now every home owner in the region incurs responsibility?


What if my neighbor leaves corn fields open to deer... and the population gets out of hand... and the ticks breed... and my kid gets lyme disease! OMG! Ban corn fields!





Above everything else feeding alligators is "criminal" in the state of Florida. So now I'm liable when people commit "crimes" without my permission?

Maybe Disney should be exposed to a huge civil asset forfeiture and the whole theme park should be taken by uncle; is it a "criminal establishment"? "Crimes" are regularly committed there.

WTF? I never once said anything about calling the cops or making signage mandatory. I said, I think it was shitty of them not to warn guests of the gators and I do.

 

[tod evans]

 

[presence]

WTF?

calm ur self nothing personal, just ranting

 

[presence]

[h=1]Polk Salad Annie Lyrics[/h] from The Album Collection


New! Highlight lyrics to add Meanings, Special Memories, and Misheard Lyrics...

If some of ya'll never been down south too much
Some y'all never been down s-
I'm gonna tell you a little story so's you'll understand what I'm talkin' about
Down there we have a plant that grows out in the woods, and the fields
And it looks somethin' like a turnip green
Everybody calls it polk salad
Now that's polk salad
Used to know a girl lived down there and she'd go out in the evenings and
Pick her a mess of it
Carry it home and cook it for supper
Because that's about all they had to eat
But they did all right
Down in Louisiana, where the alligators grow so mean
Lived a girl, that I swear to the world
Made the alligators look tame
Polk salad Annie, gators got your granny
Everybody said it was a shame
Because her momma was a workin' on the chain gang
A mean vicious woman
Everyday before supper time, she'd go down by the truck patch
And pick her a mess of polk salad, and carry it home in a tow sack
Polk salad Annie, the gators got your granny
Everybody says it was a shame
Because her momma was a workin' on the chain gang
A wretched, spiteful, straight-razor totin' woman
Lord have Mercy, pick a mess of it
Sock a little polk salad to me
Her daddy was lazy and no-count, claimed he had a bad back
All her brothers were fit for
Was stealin' watermelons out of my truck patch
Polk salad Annie, the gators got your granny
Everybody said it was a shame
Because her momma was a workin' on the chain gang
Yeah, sock a little polk salad to me, you know I need me a mess of it
Sock a little
(Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom-boom-boom)
(Chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom, chick-a-boom-boom-boom)
Sock a little polk salad to me, you know I need a real mess of it (chick-a-boom)
Sock a little polk salad, you know I need a real (chick-a-boom)
Ching-ching-ching-ching-a-ling (chick-a-boom)
Ching-ching-ching-ching-a-ling (chick-a-boom)
Ching-ching-ching-ching-a-ling (chick-a-boom)
Ching-ching-ching-ching-a-ling (chick-a-boom)
Ching-ching-ching-ching-a-ling (chick-a-boom)
Ching-ching-ching-ching-a-ling (chick-a-boom)
Ching-ching-ching-ching-a-ling (chick-a-boom)
Ching-ching-ching-ching-a-ling (chick-a-boom)...

 

[jmdrake]

If someone came to my house and fed bears without my permission and never came back again... does that mean I'm obligated to report what that person did to every future visitor? If some old lady 4 miles away is known to feed bears...does that mean every land owner within the bears foraging region is responsible to report to all visitors there is an old lady feeding bears in town? I think not. This is my property and I don't feed bears. If I see someone feeding bears I ask them to stop. If they fail to stop I ask them to leave. If bears they fed attack someone subsequently... that's not on me if anything its on them. Does the not permitted or endorsed act of a an associate make something my property or liability? I think not. It might incur liability upon the individual that so attempted to domesticate the bear... but certainly not on me.




No matter where you go there are "apex predators" WE ARE IN THE FOOD CHAIN!

There is a huge warning sign right there when you enter the Disney theme park:

View attachment 5034

Whine and bitch all you want about this. But the current law is that if you know about dangerous wild animals on your property and you invite the public on your property, especially if you're doing the inviting for profit, and you don't warn the public about the danger, you are liable. And your analogies are purposefully designed to obfuscate the truth. You want a correct analogy? Here it is. You open up a picnic area on your property, outfit it with a playground, and put it right next to a berry patch that you know is frequented by bears, you charge people to come, you send out fliers showing families and children eating in your picnic area and playing on your playground. Oh and you put up your stupid "Trouble will always find you" sign but you say nothing about the bears. I come to your place, pay my fee, expect that my family is going to have a fun and reasonably safe time, and one of my kids gets eaten by a bear. You say "Sorry. But I didn't own the bear. Not my fault." Forget lawsuits. Your family will be filing a wrongful death suit against me when I get through with you. Now if you didn't know about the bear, okay. But if you did and you didn't warn me, under current law you are liable. Under common sense you are liable. Under contract theory you are liable. I didn't get what I contracted for. I contracted for a fun and safe time with my children and you didn't have the common decency to warn me about a known clear and present danger. That my kids might get lyme disease from ticks that you might not even know about is not a clear and present danger. Plus at bath time I can check for ticks. Ticks usually crawl around for a while before they bite. If the do bit, they are quite noticeable and lyme disease can be treated. There's no treatment for getting mauled to death by a bear on drowned by an alligator.

 

[specsaregood]

WTF? I never once said anything about calling the cops or making signage mandatory. I said, I think it was shitty of them not to warn guests of the gators and I do.

I've found many times that libertarians try to be contrarian just to prove they are the biggest asshole in the room. It is what it is.

 

[jmdrake]

Nope and I never said Disney was obligated to warn people. I just think it's the right thing to do.

Under contract theory, which supposedly libertarians subscribe to, Disney is indeed obligated to warm people about clear and present danger. If Disney is a "child friendly" park then parents have a reasonable expectation that any place on the park where they are allowed to take their children is reasonably safe. I laughed at the last Jurassic Park movie because there is no way in hell I would take my kids to a park with live dinosaurs after the events in the first movie where the dinos started killing people in a similarly themed park. This is a similar case. A gator had already attacked someone on Disney ground and yet there was no warnings and a gator swimming hole was treated as beachfront property. The "Well what if there are deer ticks on your property" argument are stupid and designed to divert from the real issue. Disney had a clear and present danger on their property that they didn't warn people about for fear it would tarnish their "family friendly" image.

 

[presence]

Whine and bitch all you want about this. But the current law is that if you know about dangerous wild animals on your property and you invite the public on your property, especially if you're doing the inviting for profit, and you don't warn the public about the danger, you are liable.

absolutely no its not

I've cited case law multiple times in this thread... I've seen nothing from you citing that I'm liable in the state of Florida for what a wild alligator does.

 

[Suzanimal]

I thought this was an interesting article about the laws.

Are hotels liable for alligator attacks?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/opinions/hotels-may-avoid-liability-alligator-attack-danny-cevallos/

 

[euphemia]

Part of the bigger problem is that we given people such a soft place to land that we forget there is some inherent risk in life. This is no more true than in nature. There is always a risk that weather, plant life, insects, or animals will do what they do.

When people fail to recognize risk, they tend not to exercise care. "That's not safe," people say. "That's why we ask you to hold the rail," I reply.