Answer for Open Borders Cultural Marxists: American culture

[heavenlyboy34]

We need to enforce existing laws, make working here easier, and seriously question what the hell the Mexican gov't is doing that is causing its people to flee. Notice how Canadians don't rush the border the way Mexicans do - and Mexico is such a beautiful country and climate, and has many natural resources. There are so many problems regarding the border, it's hard to keep track. The drug war; the fact that a wall will do no good because of all the tunnels; the criminal element that sneaks in, and so on. It's a mess - it could be straightened out, but the gubers are never going to do that - they love this big mess. It pushes everything toward the ultimate goal of a merge. It's in the works, and it's inevitable, and we'll lose our sovereignty as a country over it. But hey, you'll get your cheap-ass labor that you want.

Plenty of latin Americans besides Mexicans try to trek across the border. So many that ICE and Border Patrol has an acronym for them-OTMs. (Other Than Mexicans).

 

[Deborah K]

Plenty of latin Americans besides Mexicans try to trek across the border. So many that ICE and Border Patrol has an acronym for them-OTMs. (Other Than Mexicans).

Yes, I am aware. Central and South Americans, Chinese, and Middle Easterners to name a few. The Mexican migration is 10 fold to them combined, I'm guessing.

 

[Dianne]

Plenty of latin Americans besides Mexicans try to trek across the border. So many that ICE and Border Patrol has an acronym for them-OTMs. (Other Than Mexicans).

That's the entire joke about it, and why we have to know half of what the Government does is fake. Are we really supposed to believe that ISIS can't find their way to the southern border. If terrorists are for real, 3/4th of them are already living in government subsidized housing, receiving food stamps to survive and Obama and his co-Vice Presidents, McConnell and Boehner, are welcoming them in.

Obama wants his legacy to truly be, the first Muslim President who destroyed the West and the East; and gave sole control of the continents to the Muslim Brotherhood. And Obama will then earn his place in heaven, with 20 virgin, six year old, boys.

 

[Deborah K]

So some anecdotal evidence that some people have treated you rudely justifies immigration control as a national issue? Seems rather petty to me.

Of course it seems petty to you, it's not happening to you. It's a nice view from that high horse, isn't it? This is real world experience, a common problem for many on the southern border, not just some hypothetical nonsense, or stats from some group with an agenda. I was born in Arizona, raised in Texas, lived a short time in New Mexico, and have lived in SoCal for the last 35 years. I was also a Minuteman for a few years and I personally experienced things at the border that I wish I hadn't. The sad fact is, there are immigrant communities that are unfriendly and even hostile to outsiders. Possible balkanization with open borders (or even without) can't be ruled out. There is plenty of modern-day historical fact to back that up.

I guess I have to join the "what is American culture?" group on this. Exactly what are you talking about? And where is the evidence that it is an immediate threat to the survival of this country? I don't see it.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? If you don't think we have a culture, customs, and traditions then I don't know what to say to you. Try Google.

Are you honestly blaming immigrants for what we have done to our own economy? Do you honestly think more regulation of immigration will do anything to reverse what our government has done to our economy? If you do, I think you have been blinded.

Why don't you answer the question, instead of accusing me of something I didn't state? Do you think open borders will help or hinder the shrinking middle class?

Do you mean in terms of numbers? I don't think it is a proper job for government policy to control population.

I didn't ask you if it is the proper role of government to control population. I asked you if you would like America to have the same population as India (and yes, in terms of numbers).

(a lot of deflection going on in your responses.)

 

[Zippyjuan]

Plenty of latin Americans besides Mexicans try to trek across the border. So many that ICE and Border Patrol has an acronym for them-OTMs. (Other Than Mexicans).

About half of all illegal immigrants didn't even sneak across the border. They entered legally and stayed longer than their visas allowed. A 100% closed border (which is impossible) would not impact them at all. Asians now outnumber those from Mexico and Central America coming to the US (both legally and illegally).

 

[fisharmor]

Of course it seems petty to you, it's not happening to you. It's a nice view from that high horse, isn't it? This is real world experience, a common problem for many on the southern border, not just some hypothetical nonsense, or stats from some group with an agenda. I was born in Arizona, raised in Texas, lived a short time in New Mexico, and have lived in SoCal for the last 35 years. I was also a Minuteman for a few years and I personally experienced things at the border that I wish I hadn't. The sad fact is, there are immigrant communities that are unfriendly and even hostile to outsiders. Possible balkanization with open borders (or even without) can't be ruled out. There is plenty of modern-day historical fact to back that up.

My real-world, equally valid, equally real experience with illegals is that I've said hello to them, shaken their hand, and spoken to them both in the limited Spanish phrases I know and in English (which most of them understand more of than they're letting on... to you).

I do not have any real-world experience with treating them like the source of all my problems. I do not have real-world experience belonging to a group dedicated to driving them out or treating them like some sort of infestation.

I can't help but think that my "experience" with illegals is probably the reason I haven't run into any more of them who are hostile or unfriendly than I have whites who were hostile or unfriendly.

Incidentally, my "experience" with black people is very similar.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? If you don't think we have a culture, customs, and traditions then I don't know what to say to you. Try Google.

When I googled "What is Deborah K's idea of American Culture" I didn't get relevant results. You've already said American culture includes speaking only English in public and being inexplicably friendly to everyone who is trying to kick you out. What else do you consider part of our culture?

Why don't you answer the question, instead of accusing me of something I didn't state? Do you think open borders will help or hinder the shrinking middle class?

If those in the middle class are willing to work to stay in the middle class, then they're going to stay in the middle class. If they don't, then class mobility is absolutely a thing, and they're going to get caught up in the bad kind of class mobility.

But you sound like any number of the privileged white folk I know around here in DC. Let me tell you what the "middle class" means here. It's one of two things -

1) Spoiled white people who work for the federal government in some capacity, earning $80-$100k ABOVE what their skills in the free market would earn, simply because they were born here and can get a clearance, and

2) People from all over the world who have to work and compete their asses off for what private sector jobs actually still exist around here.

I'm living in the lower middle class in one of the most expensive places on Earth to live, because I refuse to be in the first group. But according to your logic, in order to preserve my middle class heritage I should sell my soul to the federal government and push pencils around all day for twice my current salary.

Am I reading you correctly there? 'Cause I'm just repeating what you're saying, you know.

I didn't ask you if it is the proper role of government to control population. I asked you if you would like America to have the same population as India (and yes, in terms of numbers).

In order for it to be the same scale problem you perceive in India, since the US is over three times the area of India, there would have to be four billion people living within the US, or over half of the entire world's population.
Why don't you rewind and try to make some sense of your question, because the US is less than 7% of the world's land area.

 

[HVACTech]

If what you say is true, and the only kind of immigration that's a problem is illegal immigration, then all we have to do is legalize all immigration and that problem will completely disappear.

brilliant!
can we get Europe to try this idea first? oh, wait... they are.

 

[Zippyjuan]

If what you say is true, and the only kind of immigration that's a problem is illegal immigration, then all we have to do is legalize all immigration and that problem will completely disappear.

When you make it harder to enter legally, you encourage more to try illegally. It is perhaps ironic that tightening border security led to an increase in illegal aliens staying in the country. People from Mexico used to be able to cross pretty freely so they did- to work and to shop and after making money a while, went back home. Then it got harder to cross. They still came looking for work- but because a return might be difficult, they stayed. Then because they missed their families, they tried to bring them up here to join them- rather than all of them staying in Mexico.

But now jobs are better in Mexico so there is less incentive to go to the US and the number of Mexicans in the country illegally has declined. Also demographics have been changing- fewer people in the age group most likely to go to the US looking for work. Jobs in the US also became harder to find when the recession hit.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/24/5-facts-about-illegal-immigration-in-the-u-s/

 

[Acala]

Of course it seems petty to you, it's not happening to you. It's a nice view from that high horse, isn't it? This is real world experience, a common problem for many on the southern border, not just some hypothetical nonsense, or stats from some group with an agenda. I was born in Arizona, raised in Texas, lived a short time in New Mexico, and have lived in SoCal for the last 35 years. I was also a Minuteman for a few years and I personally experienced things at the border that I wish I hadn't. The sad fact is, there are immigrant communities that are unfriendly and even hostile to outsiders.

I have lived in Tucson for about thirty years. Pretty sure that's the same horse you've been riding. Maybe my different attitude yields a different result?

Possible balkanization with open borders (or even without) can't be ruled out. There is plenty of modern-day historical fact to back that up.

If the USA breaks up into parts, which I don't see happening anytime soon, it will be because the central government cracks. And that will be because of the REAL problems that people are avoiding because they are too busy debating immigration. But, honestly, I WANT the USA to break up into parts. Secession isn't a problem, it's a solution.

If you don't think we have a culture, customs, and traditions then I don't know what to say to you.

I think ranting about American culture smacks of a kind of collectivism I reject. And it reminds me of the French, so frightened that their feeble culture will be run over by the rest of the world that they have government agencies designed to protect it. To the extent there is anything that can be called an American culture, it has been built up by wave after wave after wave of immigrants. Another wave of immigrants isn't going to hurt it. And if it is so feeble that it can't stand up to another wave of immigrants, then let it fall. Survival of the fittest applies to cultures too.

Why don't you answer the question, instead of accusing me of something I didn't state? Do you think open borders will help or hinder the shrinking middle class?

I think it is irrelevant. Deck chairs on the Titanic.

I didn't ask you if it is the proper role of government to control population. I asked you if you would like America to have the same population as India (and yes, in terms of numbers).

(a lot of deflection going on in your responses.)

If your question is not related to the role of government in all this, it is not relevant to this thread. But I will answer it anyway. Being an introvert, I don't particularly like crowds. I don't like crowds regardless of the color or language or culture of the crowds. But I should mention that asians, who comprise the largest immigrant numbers at the moment, do crowds a whole lot better than we do. But, no, I would not like the USA to be as densely populated as India. So what? My preferences about where other people live and how much they reproduce does not give me the authority to use force against them.

 

[kahless]

That's the entire joke about it, and why we have to know half of what the Government does is fake. Are we really supposed to believe that ISIS can't find their way to the southern border. If terrorists are for real, 3/4th of them are already living in government subsidized housing, receiving food stamps to survive and Obama and his co-Vice Presidents, McConnell and Boehner, are welcoming them in.

Either that or possibly they are just waiting for the right time and shit is going to hit the fan at some point.

Obama wants his legacy to truly be, the first Muslim President who destroyed the West and the East; and gave sole control of the continents to the Muslim Brotherhood. And Obama will then earn his place in heaven, with 20 virgin, six year old, boys.

If Obama was white this would be the topic of conversation since it is so damn obvious that there would be impeach proceedings already. Political correctness, fear of the race card, corruption across all levels of government by this administration combined with a compliant media is allowing it to happen.

 

[erowe1]

We need to enforce existing laws, make working here easier

Enforcing existing laws would make working here harder, not easier.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

Significant non-European immigration only began after 1965.

Where's the jump in the growth rate of government caused by these devilish mulattoes?

....Can't see it?

....yea, me neither.

Maybe, instead, you could identify some of the major government programs they've been instrumental in passing.

Let's begin with the big ones:

Social Security!

....nope, that was passed in 1935.

Medicare!

....nope, that was passed in 1965.

Medicaid!

....nope, that was passed in 1965.

The Federal Reserve!

....nope that was passed in 1913.

The income tax!

....nope that that passed in 1913.

Hmmm.....

So, how exactly have the dastardly taco eaters grown the government?

O, right, they use those welfare programs created by native voters!

....though at a lower rate than natives.

Well, they vote Democrat!

....well, the last time a Republican was in the White House, he created the largest new welfare program in decades (Medicare Part D).

But what about Obamacare!

...well, the last Republican nominee for President was all for it, except he called it Romneycare.

Hmmm.....

 

[ProIndividual]

Immigration isn't the problem, Acala. Illegal immigration is the problem. Like it or not, immigration needs to be regulated. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

Only regulated by the market. Humans aren't gods that can know what the exact number of skilled and unskilled laborers the market demands in real-time. They can only screw it up, with shortage or surplus (like with any state-controlled, centrally-planned, state socialist policy - and yes, guessing at supply and demand in money supply is as much a form of state socialism as guessing at supply and demand in labor markets).

Anyone trying to subvert the market for any reason beyond direct and measurable harm, fraud, or imminent endangerment of non-consenting individuals (or their properties), ON ONLY those individuals who create those victims, IS saying they are godlike and can better arrange the labor market than the pure expression of consumer demand being met by purely expressed producer supply. Plus, it violates the NAP and is

 

[William Tell]

brilliant!
can we get Europe to try this idea first? oh, wait... they are.

Mega + rep. Isn't it going beautifully there? Look at all the liberty!

 

[Acala]

Significant non-European immigration only began after 1965.

Where's the jump in the growth rate of government caused by these devilish mulattoes?

....Can't see it?

....yea, me neither.

Maybe, instead, you could identify some of the major government programs they've been instrumental in passing.

Let's begin with the big ones:

Social Security!

....nope, that was passed in 1935.

Medicare!

....nope, that was passed in 1965.

Medicaid!

....nope, that was passed in 1965.

The Federal Reserve!

....nope that was passed in 1913.

The income tax!

....nope that that passed in 1913.

Hmmm.....

So, how exactly have the dastardly taco eaters grown the government?

O, right, they use those welfare programs created by native voters!

....though at a lower rate than natives.

Well, they vote Democrat!

....well, the last time a Republican was in the White House, he created the largest new welfare program in decades (Medicare Part D).

But what about Obamacare!

...well, the last Republican nominee for President was all for it, except he called it Romneycare.

Hmmm.....

Exactly. It was European immigrants and their offspring that brought socialism to the USA before anyone on this board was even born.

 

[erowe1]

I was wondering what the phrase "cultural marxism" meant. Is this an accurate description of the concept?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurt_School#Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory

 

[kcchiefs6465]

Living close to the border, I have never once felt excluded from a conversation being conducted in another language. That's just silly. I had a friend whose mother was not born in America. She didn't speak much of a lick of English. We seemed to move further beyond our language barrier each time she'd bring by ridiculous amounts of home cooked Mexican food. Shrugs.

Matter of fact, all my memories are of more hospitality than I could handle. Whether it was randomly bringing food, beer, and gifts... accepting me into their homes etc. The few I've worked with over the years keep me on my toes. I'm not really used to anyone giving me a run for my money with regards to a hard day's work.

 

[PierzStyx]

The fact that you do not know America's historical values and traditions, goes a long way towards explaining why our country has slipped so very much.

Individual liberty, Self-government, personal privacy, personal responsibility, freedom of speech, freedom of religion, heck, the entire Bill of Rights.

And one of those individual inalienable human rights is the right to associate with whom you choose and to freely move where you wish as long as it is across unowned property. Also, only people can own property, collectives and non-entities, such as the US government, cannot. Further, the US Constitution only gives the federal government the power to define what legally determines citizenship, nowhere is the government authorized to regulate immigration. And that is one purpose, early on we wanted, nay needed, large influxes of immigrants to help the country grow quickly. If you sincerely hold to the Bill of Rights, then based on the Tenth Amendment alone you should opposed federal regulation of immigration.

Also, I think I believe in that list of values and beliefs more than you do. I believe in the free marketplace of ideas, the best ideas will rise to the top. I believe human liberty to be the greatest of ideas and believe they will stand against any other form of ideas they come into competition with. Nativists, such as yourself, seemingly do not have faith in the ideals you espouse because you want to violate them to protect them- which makes no sense to me, but whatever.

The right not to be genitally-mutilated or beheaded because I am a Christian. The right of gays not to be thrown off the top of buildings, because they are gay. The right of a woman not to be stoned to death because she is suspected of cheating on her husband.

And this is just STUPID. There are millions of Muslims living in America today fully living the Shariah. Do you know how much any of that happens here? Diddly and squat. You know why? Because the problems of the Middle East aren't religious, they aren't Islam. The problems of the Middle East are problems created by statism and authoritarianism, which warp everything they touch to support their cause of compulsion, violence, and domination. Islam is no more the reason for those problems than Western ideals of "freedom" and "liberty" are responsible for Americans invading and destroying Iraq or drone bombing civilian weddings.

I'm sure others can add more to the list.

No one who knows what they're actually talking about.

My answers in bold.

 

[Tywysog Cymru]

That's the entire joke about it, and why we have to know half of what the Government does is fake. Are we really supposed to believe that ISIS can't find their way to the southern border. If terrorists are for real, 3/4th of them are already living in government subsidized housing, receiving food stamps to survive and Obama and his co-Vice Presidents, McConnell and Boehner, are welcoming them in.

Obama wants his legacy to truly be, the first Muslim President who destroyed the West and the East; and gave sole control of the continents to the Muslim Brotherhood. And Obama will then earn his place in heaven, with 20 virgin, six year old, boys.

If Obama is a Muslim, he's doing a really bad job of living by his religion.

 

[Acala]

Living close to the border, I have never once felt excluded from a conversation being conducted in another language. That's just silly. I had a friend whose mother was not born in America. She didn't speak much of a lick of English. We seemed to move further beyond our language barrier each time she'd bring by ridiculous amounts of home cooked Mexican food. Shrugs.

Matter of fact, all my memories are of more hospitality than I could handle. Whether it was randomly bringing food, beer, and gifts... accepting me into their homes etc. The few I've worked with over the years keep me on my toes. I'm not really used to anyone giving me a run for my money with regards to a hard day's work.

The only time I am ever excluded by language from any conversation that is properly any of my business in the first place, is when two or more of my Mexican co-workers are intentionally teasing me. Which is totally fair because I tease them at every opportunity. And if the day ever came when I was in trouble in some way, I am confident that they would be the first in line to help me in any way they could.