Answer for Open Borders Cultural Marxists: American culture

[Acala]

So, since we have allowed the cultural marxists to move us away from what were our traditional values, we should throw in the towel and just let them have our country? Because, see, I thought we had joined together here to try to save our country. That's what I thought anyway. It wasn't until recently that I realized that some here just wanted it to burn; right along with their brethren marxists.

But see immigration is not the CAUSE of our problems. And so "fixing" immigration, no matter what you think that means, doesn't SOLVE anything. Get it? No matter what you think should be done about immigration, it will do nothing to solve our root problems. And so getting your undies all in a bunch about it, and provoking divisiveness about it, and playing along with the ruling powers who are intentionally making it a major campaign issue, you are actually hurting the effort to get people to join together to solve the root problems.

 

[LibertyEagle]

But see immigration is not the CAUSE of our problems. And so "fixing" immigration, no matter what you think that means, doesn't SOLVE anything. Get it? No matter what you think should be done about immigration, it will do nothing to solve our root problems. And so getting your undies all in a bunch about it, and provoking divisiveness about it, and playing along with the ruling powers who are intentionally making it a major campaign issue, you are actually hurting the effort to get people to join together to solve the root problems.

The illegal alien invasion of our country is not the root, no, but it is one of the many tactics being used to bring down our country. So, hell yes, I will fight it. But, I will fight all the rest too.

Acala, the tactics being used against us are going to put us underwater long before any larger effort to strike the root will have a chance of succeeding. So, unless we bail the water at the same time, we are going to be done for anyway.

 

[Acala]

The illegal alien invasion of our country is not the root, no, but it is one of the many tactics being used to bring down our country. So, hell yes, I will fight it. But, I will fight all the rest too.

Acala, the tactics being used against us are going to put us underwater long before any larger effort to strike the root will have a chance of succeeding. So, unless we bail the water at the same time, we are going to be done for anyway.

People's attention is limited in time and range. Getting people to focus on immigration takes their attention away from our deep fiscal, monetary, economic, regulatory, foreign policy, and police-state problems without doing anything to solve them. Every article, every debate question, every tv sound bite, every headline, every line in a party platform, every thread on this forum that focuses on immigration takes away from work on root problems. It is a diversion, not an adjunct. It also divides people that should be working together and therefore makes solutions to root problems even more remote.

Immigration itself isn't a tactic being used to undermine liberty. ARGUING about immigration is the tactic being used to undermine liberty. Making immigration an issue of national debate is a far greater hindrance to real reform than is immigration itself.

 

[Sola_Fide]

People's attention is limited in time and range. Getting people to focus on immigration takes their attention away from our deep fiscal, monetary, economic, regulatory, foreign policy, and police-state problems without doing anything to solve them. Every article, every debate question, every tv sound bite, every headline, every line in a party platform, every thread on this forum that focuses on immigration takes away from work on root problems. It is a diversion, not an adjunct. It also divides people that should be working together and therefore makes solutions to root problems even more remote.

Immigration itself isn't a tactic being used to undermine liberty. ARGUING about immigration is the tactic being used to undermine liberty. Making immigration an issue of national debate is a far greater hindrance to real reform than is immigration itself.

I completely agree. And as you said, hypothetically we could completely end all immigration tomorrow and still have every one of our fiscal and moral problems.

The entire immigration debate is farce built on unsound economics, nationalistic socialism, and Marxist class distinctions.

Where are the people who believed in individualism and liberty on this forum? Wow....this election has exposed so many....

 

[erowe1]

Much of what I listed are natural rights. I am surprised you don't know that.

I do. That's why I think it's important to notice that you're the one demanding that these natural rights be violated.

But what you did not list were things that comprise a culture. The very same natural rights you referred to imply the right of Americans to adhere to a variety of different cultures.

 

[Tywysog Cymru]

Immigrants might be on average anti-liberty, but so are most people born in America. I do support ending the laws that encourage illegal immigration, but that will only solve a small part of the larger problem.

 

[Deborah K]

"Barbarian rape gangs"? Which ones are those? How many of those are being let into the country each year? What country or countries are they coming from? How many rapes a year are they committing?

I'm guessing you've never seen a rape tree. Well, I have!

 

[Deborah K]

But see immigration is not the CAUSE of our problems. And so "fixing" immigration, no matter what you think that means, doesn't SOLVE anything. Get it? No matter what you think should be done about immigration, it will do nothing to solve our root problems. And so getting your undies all in a bunch about it, and provoking divisiveness about it, and playing along with the ruling powers who are intentionally making it a major campaign issue, you are actually hurting the effort to get people to join together to solve the root problems.

Immigration isn't the problem, Acala. Illegal immigration is the problem. Like it or not, immigration needs to be regulated. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

 

[fisharmor]

So take your anti-liberty jihad elsewhere. I'm sick of your shit and so are a lot of other people.

Never in the history of my reading this site have I felt so fondly toward Sola Fide as I do now.

 

[fisharmor]

LOL those barbarian rape gangs sure do know how to hang drywall.

 

[fisharmor]

But, I will fight all the rest too.

Every post of yours I've read in the last two years has been either
1) Ron Paul said X so you need to support X times a million

or

2) Illegal immigration! Boogity Boogity!

This hardly amounts to "all the rest".

 

[Zippyjuan]

I'm done arguing with the well-poisoning blockheads here. From this point forward I will simply neg rep them at every opportunity.

A very mature response. I am sure they will feel very bad and stop posting such nonsense.

 

[Acala]

Immigration isn't the problem, Acala. Illegal immigration is the problem. Like it or not, immigration needs to be regulated. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

Oh, I agree that illegal immigration is a problem. I live in Tucson, so I am very well aware. I think we have a different solution in mind, but let's put that aside for the moment. We agree it is a problem. However, in my opinion it is a relatively trivial problem. You perhaps think otherwise. If so, tell me please exactly what important problem will be SOLVED by a total curb on illegal immigration such that it merits being a dominant issue in the national election? I can't think of any.

 

[erowe1]

Immigration isn't the problem, Acala. Illegal immigration is the problem. Like it or not, immigration needs to be regulated. I wish it wasn't so, but it is.

If what you say is true, and the only kind of immigration that's a problem is illegal immigration, then all we have to do is legalize all immigration and that problem will completely disappear.

 

[puppetmaster]

Its pretty inconsistent. I've read pretty much everything Rothbard has said about immigration and I think he really faltered on this issue. Walter Block has written some good refutations to him on this. Rothbard in particular seemed to adopt some strange positions during the times in his life when he was trying to appeal to the Right.

do you ever think YOUR positions are strange? I do.

 

[Deborah K]

If what you say is true, and the only kind of immigration that's a problem is illegal immigration, then all we have to do is legalize all immigration and that problem will completely disappear.

We need to enforce existing laws, make working here easier, and seriously question what the hell the Mexican gov't is doing that is causing its people to flee. Notice how Canadians don't rush the border the way Mexicans do - and Mexico is such a beautiful country and climate, and has many natural resources. There are so many problems regarding the border, it's hard to keep track. The drug war; the fact that a wall will do no good because of all the tunnels; the criminal element that sneaks in, and so on. It's a mess - it could be straightened out, but the gubers are never going to do that - they love this big mess. It pushes everything toward the ultimate goal of a merge. It's in the works, and it's inevitable, and we'll lose our sovereignty as a country over it. But hey, you'll get your cheap-ass labor that you want.

 

[Deborah K]

Oh, I agree that illegal immigration is a problem. I live in Tucson, so I am very well aware. I think we have a different solution in mind, but let's put that aside for the moment. We agree it is a problem. However, in my opinion it is a relatively trivial problem. You perhaps think otherwise. If so, tell me please exactly what important problem will be SOLVED by a total curb on illegal immigration such that it merits being a dominant issue in the national election? I can't think of any.

I've been a southwestern girl and lived this problem my whole life. I think one of the concerns LE, myself, and others have is the threat of balkanization. It's true that many, if not most immigrants don't want to assimilate into our culture. Now I'm not against diversity, as long as basic principles of freedom are common amongst the cultures, but they are not. And I know this first hand.

There are other concerns as well, but when you have an immigrant community who deliberately excludes you (by not speaking English during a conversation, as an example) and is at times, hostile toward you, it makes you wonder what the future holds.

 

[Acala]

Now I'm not against diversity, as long as basic principles of freedom are common amongst the cultures, but they are not. And I know this first hand..

You do know that basic principles of freedom are not common in THIS culture, right? That's why we have a drug war and socialism and crony-capitalism and domestic spying and everybody knows it and nobody CARES!!!! I'm really wondering where people get the idea that Americans are paragons of libertarian virtue that is being diluted by immigrants. I see no evidence of that whatsoever.

There are other concerns as well, but when you have an immigrant community who deliberately excludes you (by not speaking English during a conversation, as an example) and is at times, hostile toward you, it makes you wonder what the future holds.

I am surrounded by Mexicans in my job and my community and I have never noticed any of this. Or perhaps I just don't care if I am included in everyone's conversation all the time?

By the way, you didn't answer my question. What major problem in the USA will be cured by increased border security such that this issue needs to be front and center in the national debate?

 

[Deborah K]

You do know that basic principles of freedom are not common in THIS culture, right? That's why we have a drug war and socialism and crony-capitalism and domestic spying and everybody knows it and nobody CARES!!!! I'm really wondering where people get the idea that Americans are paragons of libertarian virtue that is being diluted by immigrants. I see no evidence of that whatsoever.

Of course I'm aware of it!! I'm just not interested in adding to it, to the tune of millions per decade until it becomes balkanized and totally unrecognizable.

I am surrounded by Mexicans in my job and my community and I have never noticed any of this. Or perhaps I just don't care if I am included in everyone's conversation all the time?

It's rude when you are in a business getting customer service and no one is willing to speak English. Or when you work somewhere, and all that is spoken over the radio is a foreign language - leaving you in the dark as to what is going on at the site. Or, when you go to lunch with your co-workers and no one speaks English during the conversation. If you're not experiencing any of this, consider yourself fortunate. But trust me, it's going on and it's getting worse.

By the way, you didn't answer my question. What major problem in the USA will be cured by increased border security such that this issue needs to be front and center in the national debate?

I did answer it. The potential for balkanization (dividing cultures in the U.S. into smaller mutually hostile states or groups) and thus, the complete destruction of American culture as we know it. Plus, the middle class is shrinking. Do you honestly think it will widen with more immigration? Would you like us to have the same population as say, India?

 

[Acala]

It's rude when you are in a business getting customer service and no one is willing to speak English. Or when you work somewhere, and all that is spoken over the radio is a foreign language - leaving you in the dark as to what is going on at the site. Or, when you go to lunch with your co-workers and no one speaks English during the conversation. If you're not experiencing any of this, consider yourself fortunate. But trust me, it's going on and it's getting worse.

So some anecdotal evidence that some people have treated you rudely justifies immigration control as a national issue? Seems rather petty to me.

I did answer it. The potential for balkanization (dividing cultures in the U.S. into smaller mutually hostile states or groups) and thus, the complete destruction of American culture as we know it. ?

I guess I have to join the "what is American culture?" group on this. Exactly what are you talking about? And where is the evidence that it is an immediate threat to the survival of this country? I don't see it.

Plus, the middle class is shrinking. Do you honestly think it will widen with more immigration?

Are you honestly blaming immigrants for what we have done to our own economy? Do you honestly think more regulation of immigration will do anything to reverse what our government has done to our economy? If you do, I think you have been blinded.

Would you like us to have the same population as say, India?

Do you mean in terms of numbers? I don't think it is a proper job for government policy to control population.