Analysis of Arizona Immigration Bill

[John Taylor]

You have no idea what I may or may not have an idea of.

Nullify welfare in Arizona. The government of Arizona could start accepting gold and silver coin for payment of debts in Arizona to enable competing currencies.

Nullify welfare? You mean federal welfare programs? I would love to. I would love to cut state welfare programs as well, but first we're going to need to solidify the voting population. As it is now, we have a vast number of people who support vastly expanding the role of the state government moving into Arizona, from Mexico, and from a place even worse, California.

I appreciate your concern for Arizona, and I happen to think that while it is a good idea for competing currencies, only CONGRESS constitutionally has the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof, so we might run into some legal issues there. Anything else I should pass on to our legislature?

 

[angelatc]

This bill will affect the people in Arizona as there illegal numbers at least as a percentage of all illegals in America will fall, if this law is enforced. The illegals will move to the other states where there is no enforcement. The illegals will go to one of the other states with a preference shown for neighboring states.

ssforronpaul

Voting with their feet! That is exactly how America is supposed to work. If you don't like a policy in one state, move somewhere where the laws are more favorable to your ends.

Of course, if Arizona has success with this law (and I recognize that is definitely an "if") look for other states to follow suit.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

I appreciate your concern for Arizona, and I happen to think that while it is a good idea for competing currencies, only CONGRESS constitutionally has the power to coin money and regulate the value thereof, so we might run into some legal issues there. Anything else I should pass on to our legislature?

I didn't say Arizona should coin money only stated it could accept payments in gold and silver coin under it's constitutional mandate to do so. It would not have to mint the coins or accept coins denominated in dollars. It could accept coins based on intrinsic weight value. Let the market figure out how to mint coins.

 

[John Taylor]

I didn't say Arizona should coin money only stated it could accept payments in gold and silver coin under it's constitutional mandate to do so. It would not have to mint the coins or accept coins denominated in dollars. It could accept coins based on intrinsic weight value. Let the market figure out how to mint coins.

I'm fine with that.

 

[Rock Sexton]

And for about the hundredth time I've had to explain to you that legal citizen's rights are not threatened or infringed by this enforcement of existing federal law. This law doesn't violate illegal immigrant's rights, it enables law enforcement to detect illegals, and enables them to be separated from the law abiding population.

I'm going to continue to expose you for who you are, a racist open-borders advocate of a police state. That is all that will come as aresult of your proposed policies. I don't mind saying it a hundred thousand times to demonstrate to the readers precisely how treacherous your message is.

John I would personally like to thank you for absolutely SLAYING the nonsensical, overly superlative responses you keep getting from people attacking you on this topic.

 

[phill4paul]

John I would personally like to thank you for absolutely SLAYING the nonsensical, overly superlative responses you keep getting from people attacking you on this topic.

For emphasis. Because perhaps you missed it.

Immigrants. Legal or illegal are not the cause of the troubles the media would have you believe are associated with them.

Trade agreements, inflation of currency and destabilization of the economy, vote pandering in exchange for welfare entitlements and unamended prohibitions are the cause.

The federal government is the entity that created this situation. Not illegal immigrants.

Go to the root to solve the problem. The root is the federal government.

 

[Rock Sexton]

For emphasis. Because perhaps you missed it.

Immigrants. Legal or illegal are not the cause of the troubles the media would have you believe are associated with them.

Trade agreements, inflation of currency and destabilization of the economy, vote pandering in exchange for welfare entitlements and unamended prohibitions are the cause.

The federal government is the entity that created this situation. Not illegal immigrants.

Go to the root to solve the problem. The root is the federal government.

Don't even get me started on media polarizations .... Racism .... violations of the 4th Amendment .... I swear, I nearly deleted my Facebook because of the parroting on this issue.

As already shown, this law is mirroring federal law which already exists, but wasn't being ENFORCED to the fullest extent. If it were, would that make it racist?

I will not deny that the federal government has helped to subsidize all of this and lord knows the Democrats are foaming at the mouth at the opportunity to soak up millions of new Democratic voters if given amnesty.

 

[The Patriot]

No, you specifically said your friend's Dad fired the black people and replaced them with Latinos because the Latinos were more efficient. Sounds pretty racist to me. Not to mention that it absolutely proves my original point - the illegal immigrants are indeed taking jobs away from black Americans.

Again, what would you do with those people who are too unproductive in that state we're advocating for? You might want to come up with a better plan than "Oh well, nobody said we'd all have jobs." That only flies if we all have a chance at getting jobs, which you think that some people don't really even deserve.

Remember, I've already seen what happens in a country where there's a labor shortage. Wages rise, houses get affordable, welfare rolls fall, employers provide training to improve the skill sets of the workers, and inefficient businesses close.

I've also seen what happens in a country where there's a labor surplus. Wages fall, housing prices rise, welfare rolls rise, and inefficient businesses are rewarded by not having to compete for resources.

Of course, neither is sustainable, and if we didn't have a welfare state, these situations would ebb and tide in the market's self correcting way. But we don't.

If you think that you're going to get people to vote to abolish their only source of income when the economy is in the tank, you're not being realistic. And you're delusional if you can look at Arizona and continue to cheer for unfettered immigration.

No, productive people are getting jobs over less productive people. Stop with the racist card, it is an old and tired one. Look, being black doesn't entitle you to a living or to a check. Latinos aren't taking jobs, business men are hiring more efficient workers from a larger and more competitive labor pool.

The so physically underproductive are going to have to get more productive or hope for a helping hand out of voluntary charity.

There shouldn't be welfare to begin with, we need to start slashing programs now. As for labor shortages, They result in higher prices for goods and services. So consumers, particularly the working and middle class, have to pay higher prices. The dollars and cents add up when produce prices go up, costing these people a significant amount of their savings, meaning more overall debt. And smaller businesses close, they aren't inefficient, they just need a large labor pool to compete with the big guys. So labor shortages result in a reduction in competition, and resulting in a semi formal cartel in certain sectors.

Who said I wanted these people to vote? I don't want them to become citizens. I don't support amnesty. I support giving migrants workers permits but I want to end birthright citizenship and end public services for illegal immigrants(like Prop 187). Props like 187 are immensely popular, particularly in border states, and would pass overwhelmingly. I have no problem with this law in Arizona, I think it is reasonable, but I think in the mean time we need to end birthright citizenship, end welfare for illegals, and establish a generous guest worker program(with no welfare).

 

[Stary Hickory]

Well, I will admit that the open borders crowd does have a point with their slippery-slope arguments. I think we can all cite examples of that. It's also pretty pointless to debate what's going to happen, IMHO.

But somebody had to do something. Even if it isn't perfect, this is a good start.

Sitting on the fence and saying that you both want to uphold our borders and immigration laws and yet do not want to enforce them is what I have seen a lot on these forums.

Something must be done or we might as well close up shop and forget about borders or national defense. I am glad AZ took a stand.