America 1950 vs. America 2012

[SL89]

Just out of curiosity why are you burning through your preps now? Why not continue to enjoy a few of the luxury illusions while they're still around?

Yes sir. I relied on my preps for six months. They saved my ass. All I had to buy was eggs and cheese. Why did you call them illusions? They were all I had...

 

[onlyrp]

And the feds have a lot to do with this. They forced companies to move away. Some foreign companies are here for certain reasons. i.e. Toyota and BMW. While Ford went to Mexico. The feds need to get out of the business cycle. Period. But, that does not negate the citizen's responsibility. Don't tell me or any other person that you need to buy cheap because it is cheap. NOT on the backs of child labor. It was federal interference that caused our manufacturing base to leave. You are an absolute idiot to think we can survive as a consumer based market. The math will never add up.
China has been under totalitarian rule for as long as history has been written. Don't you think for a minute that our negligence is making anything better. Nothing good comes from it. If you buy from them, you make everything worse.

no, feds didn't force companies to move, lazy and spoiled Americans did. Nobody was forcing Americans to live above their means or demand higher wages, THEY were. Glad we agree citizens are responsible too. I can buy cheap because I can, make it illegal if you can, but until then I'll buy it, thanks. If we don't buy Chinese goods they'll be better off?

 

[IDefendThePlatform]

In 1950, the average family spent about 22% of its income on housing.
In 2012, the average family spends about 43% of its income on housing.

I'll say the top 2 reasons for this re-alignment have been 1)the home mortgage interest tax deduction and 2)the government redirecting wealth to building interstates/expanding the suburbs through taxes. This is in spite of smaller family sizes.

 

[onlyrp]

I'll say the top 2 reasons for this re-alignment have been 1)the home mortgage interest tax deduction and 2)the government redirecting wealth to building interstates/expanding the suburbs through taxes. This is in spite of smaller family sizes.

I'd still love to see a source for that, and the rest of the story, what did the average family spend 78% on, and today's family spend 57% on?

 

[3kgt]

I meant you know, illusions of luxury. High speed internet, TV, shit you can buy every day at the store ice cream etc. I buy canned food every week too but I don't touch it at all.

Don't get me wrong I checked out your food thread and I think its fucking awesome. Reminded me that I need toilet paper LOL

 

[2young2vote]

In the 1950s you could slap together a cooler and screw it onto your bicycle. Then you could go to baseball games and sell your frozen treats to people. Now you would be a criminal.

I just had a look at Hong Kong in google streetview and you would be amazed at the number of shops in the middle of the big city. There are thousands of them. Little 10'x30' shops that sell practically everything it looks like. And it doesn't even look scummy. I now understand why they are always at the top of those economic freedom indexes.

 

[flightlesskiwi]

hey, yall... i found this in a zerohedge thread, and, well, i think it's pretty lulzworthy and fits in this thread:

You've got US citizened.

The piece information is easy to find and/or well known.

A US citizen urges someone to provide some data, link or evidence to prove the statement...

You've been US citizened.

Mere statement of power.

Are facts only opinions that US citizens want to be facts.

US Citizened, FTW!!!

 

[tttppp]

you wanna learn to be specific the first time so you don't have to keep correcting me, changing what you say and defending yourself?

This is what you actually said.
Both in 1950 and today, if you go to college and get a good job you still most likely are not going to have any savings after you get a home, car, food, and clothing.

If you think $10,000 might as well be nothing, GIVE IT TO ME, GIVE IT TO EVERY PERSON ON THIS BOARD. Earn that in a day for me.

Sorry, but there's a big difference between $1, $10, $100, and $10,000.
I can say I'll give everybody in this thread $100. I can say I'll give everybody who posted in the last hour on this forum $10. I can probably say I can give everybody who is active on this forum this month $1. But I dare you say you can give ONE PERSON $10,000, try saying that before saying "it might as well be nothing".

$10,000 is what it cost for me to own 2 cars over the course of 10 years = "Might as well be nothing".
Ask any homeless person if he'd buy a shelter for $10,000. Or how many days he'd be able to eat on that "might as well be nothing".

Saving $10,000 a year is not much if you had to pay $100,000 to go to college, and are most likely in significant amounts of debt. Again, saving $10,000 is not much for a SUCCESSFUL person. Its fine for someone with no education and is living on the streets. But $10,000 for a successful person is not much.

 

[onlyrp]

In the 1950s you could slap together a cooler and screw it onto your bicycle. Then you could go to baseball games and sell your frozen treats to people. Now you would be a criminal.

I just had a look at Hong Kong in google streetview and you would be amazed at the number of shops in the middle of the big city. There are thousands of them. Little 10'x30' shops that sell practically everything it looks like. And it doesn't even look scummy. I now understand why they are always at the top of those economic freedom indexes.

Vending isn't automatically a crime, anybody who has been to a rally or game knows this. We've all seen scalpers and cotton candy carts.

Ironic, you have any idea how many street cams, public and private, from dashboard to store walls there are in Hong Kong or Taiwan? Do you know what else about Hong Kong and Taiwan? They don't welcome immigrants to become citizens, they are completely anti-drug. Taiwan still has death penalty (so does Singapore) So if you "understand" why they are wealthy, consider what they don't have : freedom to drive drunk, freedom to sell drugs, freedom of a house with a yard, freedom from being filmed, freedom to own a gun, right to jury trial. Don't compare apples to oranges, seriously. Anybody who says "war on drugs never works" or "banning guns will only give outlaws guns" better explain why it works perfectly in these 3 little islands.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

We have the internet today.

Just the internet alone is such an expansion of freedom that almost anything else is irrelevant.

Aside from the fact that poor people today are materially better off than middle class folk sixty years ago.

Technology and progress are the goods. The ideal is to move forward with the positive advancements we have made, and remove the negative (growth of the state).

 

[onlyrp]

Saving $10,000 a year is not much if you had to pay $100,000 to go to college, and are most likely in significant amounts of debt. Again, saving $10,000 is not much for a SUCCESSFUL person. Its fine for someone with no education and is living on the streets. But $10,000 for a successful person is not much.

So what did you just admit? A successful person by your definition demands more and gets to complain more.

 

[onlyrp]

We have the internet today.

Just the internet alone is such an expansion of freedom that almost anything else is irrelevant.

Aside from the fact that poor people today are materially better off than middle class folk sixty years ago.

Technology and progress are the goods. The ideal is to move forward with the positive advancements we have made, and remove the negative (growth of the state).

Seriously. Internet can't replace food and shelter, but has put so many labor jobs out of business that it's, like you said, almost irrelevant what freedoms you lose (if any). Sadly, people want to tell you some laws are "outdated" would never tell you our Constitution is.

 

[tttppp]

So what did you just admit? A successful person by your definition demands more and gets to complain more.

You obviously do not understand capitalism. You either haven't taken a basic economics class or failed it miserably.

 

[ZenBowman]

O LAWD! This post has appeared here as well?

Sounds like it was written by an old dude who just hates change.

And yeah, tax rates were higher in the 50s.

The only difference is that in the 1950s the government and megacorporations could lie to your face and you'd have no way of knowing they were lying. Now, they cannot hide it anymore.

 

[donnay]

what exactly do you propose we as American consumers do about it?

If we boycott these inhumane practices and expose it, then many companies that leave here to go to China for this cheap inhumane labor practices would not make the billions like they do. Then maybe many other companies will think twice about exploiting the Chinese people in this way too.

 

[onlyrp]

You obviously do not understand capitalism. You either haven't taken a basic economics class or failed it miserably.

Quite the opposite, I know capitalism and use it. I'm not the one who's unemployed and complaining about my debt, I'm also not the one who lives with his parents and then says $10,000 is as good as nothing (but then I corrected you, like I usually do when you speak nonsense). I don't define success the way you do, perhaps you might use the actual definition capitalism uses, that's fine with me.

 

[tttppp]

Quite the opposite, I know capitalism and use it. I'm not the one who's unemployed and complaining about my debt, I'm also not the one who lives with his parents and then says $10,000 is as good as nothing (but then I corrected you, like I usually do when you speak nonsense). I don't define success the way you do, perhaps you might use the actual definition capitalism uses, that's fine with me.

If you think saving $10,000 is a success then you obviously don't believe in capitalism. You are more in favor of communism or fascism. This is what system we live in, and its the system you keep supporting.

 

[onlyrp]

If you think saving $10,000 is a success then you obviously don't believe in capitalism. You are more in favor of communism or fascism. This is what system we live in, and its the system you keep supporting.

I never said $10,000 is a succcess, I said it's a hell lot better than "might as well be nothing", especially if you get it every year. And I am not aware of capitalism defined by a dollar amount. You can keep calling me names about what system I support, although I am more OK about it than you are, doesn't mean I "support" it or support communism and fascism.

 

[onlyrp]

for the record, the source for the claim that "in 1950, only 22% of household income is spent on housing, vs today, 43%."
http://www.beatingbroke.com/1950-vs-today-have-our-changed-spending-habits-improved-our-lives/
What did it actually say?
Why? Since 1950, the average house size has doubled, now standing around 2,200-2,400 square feet. In 1950, it was common for houses to have one bathroom, for kids to share bedrooms, and for closets to be rather small (and since people had less ‘stuff’ the small closets seemed ample at the time). Now, houses have more bathrooms than bedrooms and walk-in closets that are the size of many smaller bedrooms in a 1950’s house! Many families of today could not imagine raising a family in the house their parents grew up in. But the truth is, millions of families lived in those houses and survived!

So if the size of houses double, population more than doubles, is it any surprise that percentage of your income spent on housing doubles? (this is assuming the claim is true, and nominal, without inflation)

 

[tttppp]

I never said $10,000 is a succcess, I said it's a hell lot better than "might as well be nothing", especially if you get it every year. And I am not aware of capitalism defined by a dollar amount. You can keep calling me names about what system I support, although I am more OK about it than you are, doesn't mean I "support" it or support communism and fascism.

$10,000 does not buy you a whole lot of freedom. This is the difference between our form of capitalism and pure communism. You would think there would be more of a difference. If our economy was truly capitalist and we only netted $10,000, I feel like we've been scammed. If thats the case, I really don't see much of a difference between capitalism and communism.