1000s of fish wash ashore, 1000s of birds fall from the sky in Arkansas

The environmentalists and EPA have been demonized, rightfully so because they are too corrupt to stop this kind of pollution. They are too busy in bed with corporate America to form to laws like requiring MTBE which has polluted our water supplies and cap and trade for which their buddies profit from rather than protect the environment.

On the other side you have those that say we should have no regulation and the solution is to take those that have harmed your property to court. By that time it is too late the damage is done permanently or for life time and in some cases lives are harmed. With this solution all too often the polluters hide behind the corporate veil and then go out of business. Therefore no recourse.

I am a hard core Libertarian these days but see no way around not having environmental regulation. However we need laws that prosecute the individuals regardless of corporate status or whether they are still in business.

I live in NY and it is an environmental disaster area. Around me we have corporate polluters that have destroyed the water table in my area that are out of business, so no recourse. We have GE that has refused to clean up the Hudson River. Because of them we still cannot eat the fish and our cancer risk is increased from the baking PCB's. Much of this probably before the EPA, but we do not need regulation, right?

Across the river from me we have Indian Point nuclear power plant that has polluted a lake the size of Manhattan under ground as well as the hudson river. Our thyroid cancer rates are the highest in the country. Where is the EPA?

Firstly, everyone has their embarrassing fringe element. It is a mistake to judge the entirety of the effort to force Big Corp to be environmentally responsible based on the tree-hugging progressive left who chain themselves to trees with galvanized chains and locks while holding up signs made of paper. Or by those on the hard-right which equate small g'ment with no g'ment.

And certainly the EPA must, as with many government agencies, be overhauled.

But the Republicans removing the teeth of the EPA has not helped one bit, however.

Having grown up literally a stone's throw from Love Canal, having a retired steel plant grandfather die of leukemia thanks to the Manhattan Project, and avoiding Niagara County at all costs thanks to such concerns as one of the Nation's largest haz-mat dumps and the slag from the Man. Project being used as foundations for a significant number of roads in that county, I simply cannot let this subject go.

Right now, the EPA is the best thing we have. We must force our Elected Employees in Congress to create rational environmental laws (a monumental effort unto itself) while keeping the overzealous wackos to a minimum, such as those who try to fine landowners for unregistered damns... built by beavers. Or those who put holds on construction projects until culverts are laid for the small creeks under the proposed driveway... "creeks" made by skidder tires. Or forcing 1st Nations people in Washington State onto welfare by declaring the forest they wisely managed for generations for their heat and cooking wood, and wood they used to make the furniture that was their only income, a possible habitat for an endangered species of owl.

My favorite saying in such a circumstance as the EPA and environmental protection laws...

"You don't fix a leaky roof by burning the house down".
 
Firstly, everyone has their embarrassing fringe element. It is a mistake to judge the entirety of the effort to force Big Corp to be environmentally responsible based on the tree-hugging progressive left who chain themselves to trees with galvanized chains and locks while holding up signs made of paper. Or by those on the hard-right which equate small g'ment with no g'ment.

And certainly the EPA must, as with many government agencies, be overhauled.

But the Republicans removing the teeth of the EPA has not helped one bit, however.

Having grown up literally a stone's throw from Love Canal, having a retired steel plant grandfather die of leukemia thanks to the Manhattan Project, and avoiding Niagara County at all costs thanks to such concerns as one of the Nation's largest haz-mat dumps and the slag from the Man. Project being used as foundations for a significant number of roads in that county, I simply cannot let this subject go.

Right now, the EPA is the best thing we have. We must force our Elected Employees in Congress to create rational environmental laws (a monumental effort unto itself) while keeping the overzealous wackos to a minimum, such as those who try to fine landowners for unregistered damns... built by beavers. Or those who put holds on construction projects until culverts are laid for the small creeks under the proposed driveway... "creeks" made by skidder tires. Or forcing 1st Nations people in Washington State onto welfare by declaring the forest they wisely managed for generations for their heat and cooking wood, and wood they used to make the furniture that was their only income, a possible habitat for an endangered species of owl.

My favorite saying in such a circumstance as the EPA and environmental protection laws...

"You don't fix a leaky roof by burning the house down".

Or we could realize that burning a leaky-roofed home is legitimate, especially when the home-owners have aggressed against you. If we merely stuck to property right the EPA would not be needed in the slightest--if you pollute someone else's property, against their wishes, you get fined/shut down/jailed---if they agree to it, then that person has no right to complain.
 
Species = flock. A large flock flying at a certain altitude at a given moment would expose the flock to a unique set of weather/atmospheric conditions.

Of course, the kicker NOW is that dead blackbirds seem to be popping up in Louisiana....

My thoughts exactly. I can understand a localized phenomena; but completely different states? Either something strange is going on, or this happens frequently and is only making traction in the headlines because they're happening at the same time. I'm not leaning towards the latter.
 
Species = flock. A large flock flying at a certain altitude at a given moment would expose the flock to a unique set of weather/atmospheric conditions.

Of course, the kicker NOW is that dead blackbirds seem to be popping up in Louisiana....

The plot now thickens... It appears that preliminary results of testing find no signs of disease or poisoning. Best guess so far is some type of trauma....

No storms in the area at the time as they had already passed through. (Verified by radar..)
 
I am sure the NAACP will jump on this and claim that it was a racially motivated hate crime against the birds because of the color of their skin.....err....I mean feathers.:D
 
If we merely stuck to property right the EPA would not be needed in the slightest--if you pollute someone else's property, against their wishes, you get fined/shut down/jailed---if they agree to it, then that person has no right to complain.

That policy was a total failure here in NY. The excuse used by a wide variety of polluters is that they do not have to clean it up because it was not against the law at the time they dumped and was not known to contaminate the environment. Other polluters made their profits and simply closed up shop afterwards.

How does that work for something like a lake or the river. For example the entire length of the Hudson river has been polluted by GE and various other companies.
 
DRC-1339 (Starlicide): a slow-acting avicide for controlling blackbirds, starlings, etc

Dead starlings fell from the sky in NJ, one January weekend in 2009. Turned out to be intentional poisoning by the USDA.

The USDA used bait laced with the pesticide DRC-1339 (Starlicide) to kill off several thousand starlings which were eating the livestock feed at a Mercer County farm in January of 2009. The poison causes kidney and liver damage in susceptible birds with death usually occurring 1 to 3 days after ingestion. Carol Bannerman, a USDA spokeswoman said that the poisoning was carried out on a Friday - so "unfortunately" no one was around to answer questions as residents watched dead birds raining from the sky that weekend. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/dead_birds_littering_franklin.html

"Compound DRC-1339 is a slow-acting avicide registered for controlling blackbirds, starlings, pigeons, gulls, magpies and ravens that damage agricultural crops, personal property or prey upon federally-designated threatened or endangered species." http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/registration/control_products.shtml

In sensitive bird species, DRC-1339 causes irreversible kidney and heart damage in 1-3 days. In "non-sensitive" species a MUCH HIGHER dose ("10-100 times more") can depress the central nervous system and cause cardiac or respiratory arrest in 2 to 10 hours. It is "generally unstable in the environment" and can degrade in a few hours, but may take a day or so depending on circumstances. It's considered moderately toxic to fish. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/registration/content/DRC1339starlicideTN.pdf

Preliminary testing of the dead Arkansas Blackbirds show "blood clots in the body cavity and internal bleeding" and "acute physical trauma" is being suggested.
http://www.agfc.com/Pages/newsDetails.aspx?show=148
 
I heard on the radio today that they have pretty well singled it down to hail or lightning.
 

Dead starlings fell from the sky in NJ, one January weekend in 2009. Turned out to be intentional poisoning by the USDA.

The USDA used bait laced with the pesticide DRC-1339 (Starlicide) to kill off several thousand starlings which were eating the livestock feed at a Mercer County farm in January of 2009. The poison causes kidney and liver damage in susceptible birds with death usually occurring 1 to 3 days after ingestion. Carol Bannerman, a USDA spokeswoman said that the poisoning was carried out on a Friday - so "unfortunately" no one was around to answer questions as residents watched dead birds raining from the sky that weekend. http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/dead_birds_littering_franklin.html



In sensitive bird species, DRC-1339 causes irreversible kidney and heart damage in 1-3 days. In "non-sensitive" species a MUCH HIGHER dose ("10-100 times more") can depress the central nervous system and cause cardiac or respiratory arrest in 2 to 10 hours. It is "generally unstable in the environment" and can degrade in a few hours, but may take a day or so depending on circumstances. It's considered moderately toxic to fish. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/wildlife_damage/nwrc/registration/content/DRC1339starlicideTN.pdf

Preliminary testing of the dead Arkansas Blackbirds show "blood clots in the body cavity and internal bleeding" and "acute physical trauma" is being suggested.
http://www.agfc.com/Pages/newsDetails.aspx?show=148

Thank you both for sharing that.
 
And where are the media darlings ... Government poising birds?... where are the environmentalists? Hmmm... too busy lobbying DC to notice.
 
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I didn't see any storm fronts going through before that story broke--at least, nothing that would produce hail at any altitude. And Arkansas' main pollution problem seems to be chicken urine from the Tyson monstrosity. If I remember correctly, the state has no nuclear plant. And we are the state which is most often 'upwind' of them, and have no nuclear plant. We do have a big, fat bomb plant not too far from their border, however--in McAlester.

As for the various theories out there, I'm not inclined to buy into anything that fails to explain the fish as well. I do believe in coincidence, but I don't believe most of the claimed coincidences really are. And I subscribe to the Ian Fleming hypothesis (Goldfinger's Law?): Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, three times is enemy action.
 
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So...can we rule out hailstorms and other weather-related phenomenon now? I mean, what are the odds.
 
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