You won't read this thread because you don't like the truth. We lose if we don't ADAPT.

[splanky]

I've come to the conclusion that there is some conspiracy going on at the GOP. The only way to beat the mainstream media is to become the mainstream media - there's no way around it.

Conspiracy at the GOP? Who'da thunkit? No, seriously, your remark about the media is right on. TV is like the typewriter, only useful as a reminder of things antiquated. Whether we win this thing or not, interactive media will assure an ultimate reversal of the top down system that has plagued us for so long. And our folks happen to know more about it than the old msm cadavers do. It's in the works but takes more time than we want it to. We'll get there. Well, since I'm a boomer, YOU'LL get there.

 

[azxd]

You won't read this thread because you don't like the truth. We lose if we don't ADAPT.

Adapt ?
How about staying on course and voting for the principles you believe in ?
How about supporting someone who .... Nevermind
Your frustraton does not need to be mine.

 

[JJ2]

I am disgusted with the Paul supporters who don't vote. I'm all for GOTV efforts, don't get me wrong, but why should we have to call each other to make sure we vote, and even then we have low turnout??

I mean no one had to call me and tell me to vote. I just voted. Period. Even if you don't think your vote will matter or that it won't be counted or that there's election fraud, it's very easy to vote (especially in primary states) and how can it possibly harm Paul's chances of winning?

Who could say they support Paul and want him to be President and then just not vote? Are people really that lazy? I just don't get it.

/rant

 

[eleganz]

Adapt ?
How about staying on course and voting for the principles you believe in ?
How about supporting someone who .... Nevermind
Your frustraton does not need to be mine.

Even Ron Paul adapted throughout his life and perfected his character (compassion, tolerance, patience, among others). He didn't become who he is today by not WALKING his TALK. <---did you see what I just did there?

 

[Mikakaze]

I say let people do what they do best/enjoy doing. Most of us are here for the same reason, we just have different methods/goals. There are plenty of us who may have already accepted the fact the Ron may not win this time around, but that the cause itself would not be lost as a result. We have some people here fighting for the long haul and working to better understand the process and figure out how to best influence/inform others...whether it be by exposing the bias of MSM or learning to use the tools of social media to relay a certain message. I know this thread is probably directly referencing the "possible fraud evidence" thread, and it just may be that those who are really involved in that effort feel that it's a much more significant issue or they are at least more equipped to handle it than working on PFH. It makes no sense to try and derail such efforts...just focus on what you feel is important and allow others to do the same.

 

[eleganz]

I am disgusted with the Paul supporters who don't vote. I'm all for GOTV efforts, don't get me wrong, but why should we have to call each other to make sure we vote, and even then we have low turnout??

I mean no one had to call me and tell me to vote. I just voted. Period. Even if you don't think your vote will matter or that it won't be counted or that there's election fraud, it's very easy to vote (especially in primary states) and how can it possibly harm Paul's chances of winning?

Who could say they support Paul and want him to be President and then just not vote? Are people really that lazy? I just don't get it.

/rant

I agree, but the reality is that it happens and that is what our supposedly 'ORGANIZED GRASSROOTS' is supposed to be doing.

Apparently we can't even do that.

 

[eleganz]

Posts like this rather infuriate me. Either you are out of touch with the reality of the situation or you are part of the problem. Read Kathy88 post above. That poster gets it. You don't. Eleganz is frustrated and rightly so. It is frustrating when someone is giving 120% and another is giving 2%. And the 2% has the energy to wax poetic or "give their righteous opinions" on the primary while not bothering to get into the fray. He is probably tired, over-worked, over-stressed and he is BEGGING FOR HELP!! Help to get Ron Paul elected and you just shit on it... A few people are doing a HELL OF A LOT behind the scenes paddling the boat for the rest of you.

So are you gonna make calls, pass out flyers, get the word out or are you gonna quietly support a man this country so desperately needs....

Anyways. Eleganz is 10000% right.

Don't mind me, I just BOLDED the parts you were 100% spot on.

 

[speciallyblend]

we vote on state delegates march 10th and in april we vote on national delegates ,so nothing is finished in colorado! just saying

 

[azxd]

Even Ron Paul adapted throughout his life and perfected his character (compassion, tolerance, patience, among others). He didn't become who he is today by not WALKING his TALK. <---did you see what I just did there?

Uhm,
Learned to hold down the shift key while typing

 

[azxd]

It makes no sense to try and derail such efforts...just focus on what you feel is important and allow others to do the same.

I'll do my best to handle such freedom

 

[singe22]

This is why i say, if this was the days after the declaration of independance, most of you would of jump on a ship back to england to serve the crown. Much respect to the founding fathers/patriots that lost their life. At least those that died fighting for freedom wasnt in vain till maybe 100 years ago.

 

[eleganz]

This is why i say, if this was the days after the declaration of independance, most of you would of jump on a ship back to england to serve the crown. Much respect to the founding fathers/patriots that lost their life. At least those that died fighting for freedom wasnt in vain till maybe 100 years ago.

This is how I feel ....rather strongly too.

 

[coffeewithchess]

I think the problem is we're fighting blind. How do you compete with a multi-billion dollar industry that has the average citizen so tightly gripped? What do you do? I know of at least half of the people that I know who REFUSE to support Ron Paul, refuse to support him because they listen to Hannity, Beck, Rush, etc. They view these people as gods, as if they have all the answers. It's not possible to get through to them. Anything I say is wrong or a lie because I'm a "brainwashed Paulbot."

This is pretty close to the truth here, speaking from my own experiences as well. There is no waking these people up now, as they are 100% brainwashed. They cannot talk/debate points, they resort to name-calling, 99.8% of the time.
Every single political Facebook conversation with these people, resorts in only them name-calling either the RP supporters or RP himself. It doesn't matter that you bring up the national debt, polls against Obama, directly point out the lies on Fox News...Fox News/Hannity/Rush/Levin/Beck can do no wrong.
They literally believe the LIES out of their mouths, when they are shown to be lying.

As for the OP, I'm not sure what evidence has been presented other than a FEW posts at best, showing that PFH has much benefit. Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire (did or didn't have it?), South Carolina...

As for dealing with the Fox News viewers, a few videos that have worked in silencing some are:

 

[splanky]

Who would title a thread like this? Someone who doesn't think first?

 

[eleganz]

As for the OP, I'm not sure what evidence has been presented other than a FEW posts at best, showing that PFH has much benefit. Iowa, Nevada, New Hampshire (did or didn't have it?), South Carolina...

Wow, the ignorance it takes to post something like this....

I understand you may not have been able to see first hand the BENEFITS of PFH but it doesn't take a GENIUS to acknowledge how identifying supporters from the comfort of your own home and getting them out to vote is beneficial to a presidential campaign.

 

[Ivash]

This is why i say, if this was the days after the declaration of independance, most of you would of jump on a ship back to england to serve the crown. Much respect to the founding fathers/patriots that lost their life. At least those that died fighting for freedom wasnt in vain till maybe 100 years ago.

GOD SAVE THE KING!

 

[coffeewithchess]

Wow, the ignorance it takes to post something like this....

I understand you may not have been able to see first hand the BENEFITS of PFH but it doesn't take a GENIUS to acknowledge how identifying supporters and getting them out to vote is beneficial to a presidential campaign.

Not ignorance at all. The issue here was the campaign failed to win Iowa, and it was downhill since then. Iowa was going to be the surprise, but they were not prepared for the kitchen sink that got tossed their way...and the lack of their response in an effective way (ignoring it is not effective), looks like it worked against them. Can you tell me what candidate has the supporters RP does, and have placed/gotten more calls out than RP? Do you seriously believe Rick Santorum had more phone calls placed than RP did?
The simple fact is, the RP campaign chose to ignore some glaring issues, and they alone are to blame. Not me, not you, not anybody else. The campaign has raised millions, and if they can't tailor their message in a proper way, and work WITH the media...that's not on us. The fact a Ron Paul PAC, A PAC, had to release an ad trying to address a big issue the media destroyed him with right before Iowa, shows how unprepared the campaign was...with an issue they should have been prepared for.
Rick Santorum had at least a full 2 weeks of free positive media coverage, and the RP campaign FAILED to get out an attack ad on him before Iowa.

 

[eleganz]

Not ignorance at all. The issue here was the campaign failed to win Iowa, and it was downhill since then. Iowa was going to be the surprise, but they were not prepared for the kitchen sink that got tossed their way...and the lack of their response in an effective way (ignoring it is not effective), looks like it worked against them. Can you tell me what candidate has the supporters RP does, and have placed/gotten more calls out than RP? Do you seriously believe Rick Santorum had more phone calls placed than RP did?
The simple fact is, the RP campaign chose to ignore some glaring issues, and they alone are to blame. Not me, not you, not anybody else. The campaign has raised millions, and if they can't tailor their message in a proper way, and work WITH the media...that's not on us. The fact a Ron Paul PAC, A PAC, had to release an ad trying to address a big issue the media destroyed him with right before Iowa, shows how unprepared the campaign was...with an issue they should have been prepared for.
Rick Santorum had at least a full 2 weeks of free positive media coverage, and the RP campaign FAILED to get out an attack ad on him before Iowa.

That is the past, you can write a letter to the campaign telling them how they should've sent out an attack ad before Iowa, see how much help that does for this election



So what are you going to do NOW?

 

[Article V]

So you're suggesting we do more of the same?

Sorry, I don't see any useful suggestion in your OP for adaptation, and the mods will shut you down quickly if you even try to evolve your thought into a worthwhile suggestion that Ron Paul's campaign could or should be doing something differently. (Critical analysis and suggestions for adaptation are not welcome here in the Grassroots RPF. We only allow anti-establishment news paired with our own rah-rah-rah's -- submitted in either pic, YouTube, or message form.)

The forums are for groupthink: everything is rosy here; when voting results are below expectations, it's the medias fault; there's a conspiracy against us; let's have another Moneybomb; our delegate strategy is working perfectly; and if we just push a little bit more, we'll finally cross the tipping point threshold we've been angling toward for months after months after months...

Some have been at it for years and years. Negativity permeates quickly. Blaming everyone else is the easy way out but unfortunately the media does black us out. The establishment GOP doesn't want us. The tea party was infiltrated with neocons. Votes have been tampered with. People don't show up. Americans are fat lazy and brainwashed. It's not a conspiracy it's just the way things are. We do our best individually to the best of our abilities with what we have. Those of us who have experienced this political roller coaster are used to it. We keep on because our cause is just. So forgive us if we don't like hearing over and over again that the campaign sucks and we aren't doing enough. As for the mods I wouldn't want to deal with this group of whining infants (myself included) for anything. So I hope you forgive me when I say STFU.

Posts like this rather infuriate me. Either you are out of touch with the reality of the situation or you are part of the problem. Read Kathy88 post above. That poster gets it. You don't. Eleganz is frustrated and rightly so. It is frustrating when someone is giving 120% and another is giving 2%. And the 2% has the energy to wax poetic or "give their righteous opinions" on the primary while not bothering to get into the fray. He is probably tired, over-worked, over-stressed and he is BEGGING FOR HELP!! Help to get Ron Paul elected and you just shit on it... A few people are doing a HELL OF A LOT behind the scenes paddling the boat for the rest of you.

So are you gonna make calls, pass out flyers, get the word out or are you gonna quietly support a man this country so desperately needs....

Anyways. Eleganz is 10000% right.

I'm being realistic. Not negative. And when I tried countless times to be constructive, the mods shut down the threads because they don't allow for any questions on if we're operating as efficiently as we could be. We all have to swallow the media-is-bad, more-moneybombs, keep-phoning, sign-wave, rally-rally, polls-are-wrong, brokered-convention-will-happen, we're-secretly-2nd-in-delegates, and we're-totally-gonna-win-Iowa-(I mean, Nevada...I mean, Maine... I mean, Washington... I mean, Louisiana... I mean...)-groupthink-mantra that we're being force-fed, or we're somehow bad for the campaign.

Face it, our efforts are not producing the results we'd like because we fail to acknowledge that voters make decisions in the same way investors make decisions. And just like investors occasionally get caught into a stock-market bubble fueled by groupthink, so too the larger electorate and the media are now stuck in a Ron-Paul-can't-win bubble... while our own Grassroots and mods are stuck in a smaller, it's-everyone's-fault-but-ours bubble. In other words, if Americans are fat, lazy and brainwashed into believing Ron Paul can't win (which is partially true), then we're also fat, lazy and brainwashed into believing that everything we're doing is right and it's everyone else's fault but ours that we're not winning

Like many of you, I've been at this for years too. I've traveled the country (actually world) for Ron Paul, donated thousands for Ron Paul, lost/won friendships for liberty, and given up more than any of you will ever know to help our movement. Phone-calls, flyers, GOTV, etc? Those are child's play for me. I do them more often than bowel movements, so kindly check yourself. Right now, I'm in a 4-person email thread with Rockwell, Wead, and Block where they're all saying how brilliant and right I am; but try to question things here... and the mob attacks you.

Face it, if voters are herding, then we are too--only in a different way. And our herding is hurting is us, just like the larger-electorate's herding is hurting them.

If people in our movement actually understood economics and praxeology, they'd recognize more readily the productivity of dissent. Instead, we proclaim that "dissent against government is patriotic and useful," while at the same time deluding ourselves into the sanctimonious belief that dissent against RPF and the RP2012 campaign's centralized authority is hurtful and should be squashed immediately.

....Read: The Wisdom of Crowds. It'll teach you a lot about the bubble our movement has put itself in, while also teaching you a lot about the groupthink bubble of the media and the electorate-at-large. Once an understanding of those pervade our movement, we'll be much better equipped to handle the problem, have patience with the problem, and structure ourselves in such a way that our good ideas (read: Where Good Ideas Come From) actually reach up the campaign planners without getting lost in the tidal wave of 'more of the same' messages they receive.

 

[eleganz]

^^^^ so what is YOUR solution?


You have not provided one, except for everyone to QUIT because you were right?



From what I gathered, you more or less AGREE with the OP that we need to get to work. If not, you're saying we need to quit? Which one is it? Because you're hinting at both.