You won't read this thread because you don't like the truth. We lose if we don't ADAPT.

[Romer]

There is one important lifetime lesson for everybody here - do not ever ever underestimate the sheeple.

 

[Lindsey]

While I understand the sentiment here, There are some of us who simply as a matter of logistics cannot give as much time. While we all support the movement, some of us have different means. It would nice if there was some understanding of the fact that we are all individuals with unique situations and encourage us to give everything we can, rather than scolding us for not doing more. For my part, I will try to avoid discussing anything not about the grassroots movement in the grassroots section of the forum.

 

[vechorik]

........ I, however, do believe Ron Paul is in it to win it. He never has actually talked about being President, and he certainly doesn't fantasize about it................

You missed a lot of RP speeches. I've heard him say numerous times "If I'm president, I'll take less power, not more" when talking about executive orders.
I've heard him say that as president "I'll bring the troops home"
I've heard him say as president, he will delete 5 useless departments
I've heard him say as president, he will balance the budget.

What are you talking about when you say "He never has actually talked about being President" ???

 

[Ivash]

There is one important lifetime lesson for everybody here - do not ever ever underestimate the sheeple.

I don't agree with this board's general view of 'sheeple' (I freely admit I am not a supporter of Ron Paul, or any candidate currently in the race, though I did like Tim Pawlenty back in the day. If anyone is wondering, I am on this board to interact with actual Ron Paul supporters. You guys are interesting). I believe many people see a Romney, Santorum, or Obama Presidency as being in their best interest. Not many people want the government to have *no* role in the economy. The approval rating in things such as medicare, etc, is pretty high. Libertarianism is simply alien to their viewpoints, and they believe it wouldn't work. So, they don't vote for Ron Paul.

The idea that he is 'unelectable' doesn't help him either.

 

[azxd]

You missed a lot of RP speeches. I've heard him say numerous times "If I'm president, I'll take less power, not more" when talking about executive orders.
I've heard him say that as president "I'll bring the troops home"
I've heard him say as president, he will delete 5 useless departments
I've heard him say as president, he will balance the budget.

What are you talking about when you say "He never has actually talked about being President" ???

IMO he's saying that if a RP supporter doesn't remember this well, the general public won't remember it at all ... But that's my opinion, and I can't speak for others.

 

[GraniteHills]

Libertarianism is simply alien to their viewpoints, and they believe it wouldn't work. So, they don't vote for Ron Paul.

To go further, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say most Americans don't even know what the word means -- or have never heard it. The American political paradigm, to Joe or Jane voter, who happens to be someone who probably studied very little if any American history, world history, economics, and political science, is "Democrat = poor people, Republican = rich people." I think we are dealing with a chronically mal-informed public here, and this breeds the kind of perennial election results that drive people who do know about such topics crazy.

Rothbard was absolutely correct: public education, especially in recent years as it tends away from acquisition of deep knowledge toward rote testing, has done a number on all of us. It is very hard to get people with no sense of history, no attention span, and no awareness of the crisis to sit down and listen.

Toward the OP, all I can say is I try to do my part through classroom teaching. Bright note: they are receptive, and they do sense things are terribly wrong.

 

[Okie RP fan]

I'll applaud the effort of the OPs post, as the OP raises some legitimate issues.

I've noticed a big change in the attitude on RPF since Iowa. We need to buck up and get back to it A.S.A.P.

 

[Ronulus]

I don't agree with this board's general view of 'sheeple' (I freely admit I am not a supporter of Ron Paul, or any candidate currently in the race, though I did like Tim Pawlenty back in the day. If anyone is wondering, I am on this board to interact with actual Ron Paul supporters. You guys are interesting). I believe many people see a Romney, Santorum, or Obama Presidency as being in their best interest. Not many people want the government to have *no* role in the economy. The approval rating in things such as medicare, etc, is pretty high. Libertarianism is simply alien to their viewpoints, and they believe it wouldn't work. So, they don't vote for Ron Paul.

The idea that he is 'unelectable' doesn't help him either.

I think that's where they are misunderstanding the message. The government does play a role, but that role should be to make sure the value of our dollar does not diminish, to provide a sound currency and to enforce contracts. So you can't have fraud and things like that.

 

[Ivash]

To go further, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say most Americans don't even know what the word means -- or have never heard it. The American political paradigm, to Joe or Jane voter, who happens to be someone who probably studied very little if any American history, world history, economics, and political science, is "Democrat = poor people, Republican = rich people." I think we are dealing with a chronically mal-informed public here, and this breeds the kind of perennial election results that drive people who do know about such topics crazy.

Rothbard was absolutely correct: public education, especially in recent years as it tends away from acquisition of deep knowledge toward rote testing, has done a number on all of us. It is very hard to get people with no sense of history, no attention span, and no awareness of the crisis to sit down and listen.

Toward the OP, all I can say is I try to do my part through classroom teaching. Bright note: they are receptive, and they do sense things are terribly wrong.

Taken as a whole, you are probably right that many Americans don't really know what libertarianism is. But voters in the GOP primary? I think most of them do, considering that the elderly that vote tend to be more political than 'the average' American.

 

[azxd]

I'll applaud the effort of the OPs post, as the OP raises some legitimate issues.

I've noticed a big change in the attitude on RPF since Iowa. We need to buck up and get back to it A.S.A.P.

Would that possible be some supporters attempting to tell people what to do, rather than asking them what they can do ?

 

[tbone717]

To go further, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say most Americans don't even know what the word means -- or have never heard it. The American political paradigm, to Joe or Jane voter, who happens to be someone who probably studied very little if any American history, world history, economics, and political science, is "Democrat = poor people, Republican = rich people." I think we are dealing with a chronically mal-informed public here, and this breeds the kind of perennial election results that drive people who do know about such topics crazy.

Rothbard was absolutely correct: public education, especially in recent years as it tends away from acquisition of deep knowledge toward rote testing, has done a number on all of us. It is very hard to get people with no sense of history, no attention span, and no awareness of the crisis to sit down and listen.

Toward the OP, all I can say is I try to do my part through classroom teaching. Bright note: they are receptive, and they do sense things are terribly wrong.

Very correct in your points.

I think one of the issues we have is that a lot of people tend to think that we need people to become "converted" in order to succeed. While that is an admirable goal it simply isn't realistic. While it is very important to have the converts active in the libertarian movement of the GOP, we also need to realize that we need to have a lot of Joe & Jane Republicans vote with us, so that we can get our agenda in place. That is done by meeting voters where they are rather than waiting for voters to come to us. In a nutshell, that is the failure of the campaign & grassroots in this election cycle. We have been ineffective at communicating our message as a solution for the concerns of the average voter, instead we have been trying to force our issues on people and expect them to "wake up" and embrace our political philosophy.

The good news is that we do have answers for people's most pressing concerns. We just need to find people that are able to communicate our answers in a manner that is appealing to the average voter. When we do that, we win. We have won before and we will continue to win. So while this nomination process may look very bleak, overall the libertarian wing of the GOP will continue to grow and we will continue to elect good people at the local, state and national level.

 

[Romer]

Taken as a whole, you are probably right that many Americans don't really know what libertarianism is. But voters in the GOP primary? I think most of them do, considering that the elderly that vote tend to be more political than 'the average' American.

They may have heard for the word, but hardly they know what it means. Anarchy? Layoffs? No social security? No nanny state? No wars and bombing other countries (for them these=terrorists)

Or perhaps just something else.

They must know that it means the most importantly this: less government, less corruption, less bureaucracy, more freedom, more economical liberties, more prosperity, more money in THEIRS pockets in the end. If they got that message they would have voted for Ron Paul.

 

[HigherVision]

I just hope everyone remembers that this fight doesn't stop with this election.

For me personally, I've stopped donating and participating in the PFH (I got just over 100) because it became clear to me that Ron knows he can't win. Ron never talks about actually being President, he never offers any specific plans to the sheeple, and he isn't aggressive enough when he's actually given time to speak.

He doesn't appear to be in this to win, no matter what anyone wants to tell me. I've been following Paul since 2007, I've been following this campaign since it started, but it's become abundantly clear to me that this fight for Liberty has just started and even if Paul ended his campaign tomorrow nothing would change that. This is only year 5 in what's sure to be a struggle that will potentially last decades.

To all the people disagree, I respect your right to do so, but if we're going to win the only way we can do it is with flooding the convention with our delegates and even then it's a long shot. The focus for winning should be on the delegates...

However, while I hope everyone helps Paul out in any way you can I would ask that everyone realize that the real goal should be to get elected to their local governments and then try to spread the message that way.

Phoning from home is great and all but the best way to get the message out to a LARGE number of people is to get politically active in local and statewide elections, even if you don't win you can make a huge difference (much in the same way Paul is now) by taking the message straight to the people.

The real goal should be continuing to infiltrate the party from within so when the next Liberty leader (Rand or whoever) makes his run the game isn't so stacked against him.

I think with the right amount of legwork anyone can win almost any house seat, remember folks, we're the ones with time on our side and we're the ones who are right.

It might take voters in your area a few elections but as time goes on our message will only resonate deeper because WE ARE RIGHT and one glorious day there may be a true libertarian-republican revolution in this country. But sadly it will not be in 2012...

Some of you have called nearly 500 people in the PFH program, while that's amazing and something that you should all be proud of just ask yourself- how many people could I speak to if I actually ran for something in my local community or state?

Anyone out there with charisma or the natural ability to speak infront of crowds MUST use their gifts to spread the message and continue infiltrating the party- this is how we'll win in the long run- I promise.

I've always gotten that vibe from him too, that he wasn't interested in winning. I don't really blame him, a lot of people talk about what he should or shouldn't be doing but what they don't account for is that these are dangerous people that we're up against. And we're up against them from a distance, whereas Ron is right there in the hot seat. I know people don't like 'conspiracy theories' but regardless, reality exists outside of people's willingness to accept it. I think Ron knows what the implications are if he crosses the line so to speak and so he does the best he can for all of us to get the message of freedom out. And if it keeps growing then eventually they won't be able to suppress it.

 

[WD-NY]

I suggest everyone in this thread, go and read George Washington's Newburgh Address. Like pronto.

I suggest Ron Paul should go and read washington's Newburgh Address so that he can remember WHAT A FORMAL F**KING SPEECH LOOKS LIKE.

 

[A_Silent_Majority_Member]

Heres my time to have the dogs sicked on me....

RPF as a tool = turning a phillips head screw with a sanding block

Before you get all tiffed... try to reflect on what i'm saying.

I am saying nothing that hasnt already been declared before MANY times on here yet STILL goes unchecked... and the die hard puff and woot woot in pride on how this place isnt for newcomers.. its for die hards only and newbies should go elsewhere.

This board is simply not being implemented in an effective way. sure maybe for the die hards its tips... but answer me this? will Ron Paul get elected with ONLY the support of the die hards? or do we need the support of the masses as well?

With only DP vs RPF... RPF is winner as far as user friendly layout but made for and by die hards and NOT the common person casually strolling online to check out, reasearch (as we tell/beg them to do), or casually join with fellow supporters.

Already i hear the crickets chirping as a lone tumbleweed rolls by as the eyes are rolling because im stupid and dont know anything. though I tend to take it with a grain of salt and dont live on here 24/7.. sadly however many others do not take things in such stride and have likely already been driven away to candidate X..

errrrrk stop! insert sheldon cooper logic: "But ah that make no sense to do over some forum right????"

sure.. but its how it works out there in this world NOT made of Ron Paul die hards and if your plan is to change that... HAHAHAHAHA good luck telling birds to swim and fish to fly.... bottom line...media says ron paul is nuts and his supporters are rude... people decide to look past it... come here, see all the die hard BS and... OOOOOPS "darn the media was right! dont want to be wrapped up with that rabble..." or "darn asked a question and got rubbed out WTF?!?!..." or "well I was on the fence between candidate x and paul and thought I might support paul but apparently im not welcome in the paul camp so fine guess i will go to candidate x. nicer people there at least"

eeeeeerk STOP! again insert sheldon cooper logic: "ah no you know noting! im so sure the what 20,000 or so people wo come here a day wont make that big a difference! and is their problem for come onto our turf without thick skin!"

ahhh and what about the domino effect of what they tell their friends, family, coworkers ect that dont come here who then pass that along to their freinds, family, and coworkers who then pass along to their friends, family, coworks ect huh????

eeeerrrrk STOP! insert more sheldon cooper logic: "well if these people dont like it then they can go elsewhere!"

ahh dont worry..they have sadly because there is no other forum really to go that makes sense.

errrrk STOP! response: " then why dont YOU make a place!"

ahh if this was 15 years ago when i was flush with cash and didnt have a family of 5 to keep up with I would.. but its not.. even if i did I would have no clue how to promote it since posting something here would undoubtedly result in accuasations of spamming and trolling. Besides... I would prefer to keep this place and just make slight adjustments to accomidate both the die hards (who wish a sharply refined tool and hard core facts, statistics, grassroots activism) AND the newbie or common jane/joe (who wish a friendly place to hang out, speculate, share ideas with fellow Ron Paul supporters and learn as well in addition to a tool for basic info). Everything to do this far as i know can be done by ADMIN with a few simple clicks in the ACP of the board. The die hards will gripe (at first) but things would run more smoothly in the end and the numbers would be more likely to grow (as well as the support.. again.. think domino effect)

next step... take a step back and take a different look at ourselves and say ya know.. if what we have been doin hasnt gotten us the results we seek, then maybe its time we try something different?

fine.... Should I make a simple demo board and post it just as demonstration so everyone can see what im talking about and give it a test drive?

and what does this have to do with grassroots activism? the title of this forum says it all... GRASSROOTS CENTRAL... and where is this located??.. ON THIS BOARD... and what does this board and grassroots activism have in common? without PEOPLE.. niether would be effective. We have grassroots organization and people.. what we dont have is enough people. ergo.. MORE PEOPLE FRIENDLY BOARD>>MORE PEOPLE>>MORE IDEAS>>LARGER GRASSROOTS>>MORE ACTIVISM>>WINNING! savvy?

 

[gerryb]

As much of a nobody as I am, I still have made over 300 PFH calls and my fam has got at least one hundred signatures for delegates
and for RP in PA.

So I can at least say I helped to get RP on the PA ballot.

Look I actually did something albeit something small.

“I am only one, but I am one. I can't do everything, but I can do something. The something I ought to do, I can do. And by the grace of God, I will.”

]
You think this is a small contribution..

Imagine if everyone who has donated $$, did what you did.

RP would be the undeniable front runner. We have 200,000+ people who have given money... 200,000 x 300 calls = 60,000,000 calls -- that's multiple contacts per voter in the US.

200,000 x 100 = 20,000,000 signatures. Change this to 20M door knocks(since we don't need that many signatures..) -- even with just a 5% conversion ratio, this would win the election.

 

[Tudo]

Well I hope you're right and am sure glad to be in the business I'm in as it looks like more of the same.

An employee of mine in a communist country told me last night, "it's time for Americans to accept the fact you have a regime that is not going to allow any change in policy. It doesn't matter if Ron Paul received 75% of the "vote", they will not permit change. Just like in other socialist countries although the big difference is they don't go around ripping countries off of there natural resources and murdering there citizens" endquote.

I have offices in Asia and I've been VERY hard on the people over there whenever I'm there saying things like " who can any man permit this tyoe of government to control what you do? This is what you're willing to allow to happen to your families? " ( I've been MUCH harder than that)

Talk is talk although I know we have all seen riots on some countries over this type of election fraud.

 

[gerryb]

I still love Ron, and yesterday here in MI I got 13 people (that I know of) to vote for him, but now that I did my part I'll be honest, I'm done. After I saw that poll of people on here where nearly half said they would vote for a Romney/Paul ticket I lost all respect for this "movement" and I'm not spending anymore of my money on it.

Good, we should be working with local candidates instead of a national candidate, anyway. "Grassroots" is from the bottom up, not top down.

 

[tbone717]

]
You think this is a small contribution..

Imagine if everyone who has donated $$, did what you did.

RP would be the undeniable front runner. We have 200,000+ people who have given money... 200,000 x 300 calls = 60,000,000 calls -- that's multiple contacts per voter in the US.

200,000 x 100 = 20,000,000 signatures. Change this to 20M door knocks(since we don't need that many signatures..) -- even with just a 5% conversion ratio, this would win the election.

Which begs the question, why has this not been organized? I am not in MI or AZ so I don't know what occurred there, but shouldn't ever single person on the mailing list that lives in MI & AZ been contacted directly and asked to do some good old-fashioned retail politicking? It's great that we have an enthusiastic base, but if people are not being called upon directly by the campaign and called into action, then all the enthusiasm is worthless.

 

[gerryb]

It's great that we have an enthusiastic base, but if people are not being called upon directly by the campaign and called into action, then all the enthusiasm is worthless.

It shouldn't require the campaign prodding people into action. We're supposed to be different then that.