Would libertarians do better if we marketed ourselves as moderates?

mediahasyou

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Generally, libertarians agree with Republicans on issues of free markets and with Democrats on issues of individual liberty.

If libertarians were to accept the political spectrum, libertarians would be in the middle because they would be agreeing with issues from both sides.

Many people accept the moderate political position as an undecided position. If libertarians were to associate themselves as moderates, these people may decide to research the moderate(libertarian) position themselves.

Moderates, like John McCain, compromise to "get stuff done". Theoretically, libertarians could compromise with the left and right but still have a sound philosophical position. An example would be putting a individual liberty aspects, to please the left, into free market bill, to please the right.

Compromise has always lead to more statism but it doesn't have to be that way.
 
I have never agreed with a Republican on free markets, or a Democrat on "individual liberty." You're obsessing over the rhetoric. There is no difference between the two, and neither care about individual or economic freedom.
 
I have never agreed with a Republican on free markets, or a Democrat on "individual liberty." You're obsessing over the rhetoric. There is no difference between the two, and neither care about individual or economic freedom.

Agreed. Republicans and Democrats are not pure on these topics. However, rhetoric is powerful.
 
I have never agreed with a Republican on free markets, or a Democrat on "individual liberty." You're obsessing over the rhetoric. There is no difference between the two, and neither care about individual or economic freedom.

+1
 
Libertarians would do better if they stopped leading with their desire to legalize child porn and recreational drugs. No matter how you cut it, as soon as most people hear that, they're going to run the other way and not listen to anything else you have to say.

I think we also should paint a picture of what life would look like, if we returned to a constitutional government. We spend way too much time talking about what everyone is doing wrong; instead of what should be done.
 
Libertarians would do better if they stopped leading with their desire to legalize child porn and recreational drugs.

You have a valid point. Things are illegal now because most people want them to be illegal. Saying that some libertarians want to roll back these laws doesnt help much.

But, frankly, 95% of the country voted for McCain or Obama for president and sat on their asses during the bailout. Conventional Political success is no longer possible, as far as I am concerned.

I just don't know where that leaves someone unwilling to give up- but realistic enough to see the writing on the wall.
 
Libertarians would do better if they stopped leading with their desire to legalize child porn and recreational drugs. No matter how you cut it, as soon as most people hear that, they're going to run the other way and not listen to anything else you have to say.

I think we also should paint a picture of what life would look like, if we returned to a constitutional government. We spend way too much time talking about what everyone is doing wrong; instead of what should be done.

+1 These are rather "fringe" type issues, more for esoteric discussion and philosophical chat. Not a way to win anyone over, as far as I can see. :confused:
 
Libertarians would do better if they stopped leading with their desire to legalize child porn and recreational drugs. No matter how you cut it, as soon as most people hear that, they're going to run the other way and not listen to anything else you have to say.

I think we also should paint a picture of what life would look like, if we returned to a constitutional government. We spend way too much time talking about what everyone is doing wrong; instead of what should be done.
I'll give you the child porn one, but...where has anyone really debated that in full force?:confused: Other than perhaps a tiny segment in a Mary Ruwart book, most know to steer clear of that. It's a moot point anyway, since most cases of child porn are simultaneously cases of human rights violations.

As for recreational drugs, hell no. Why should we compromise on that, when the war on drugs is by far one of the most rampantly destructive governmental actions we're faced with?

A whole lot of people covered their ears and shouted "la la la la" when Ron Paul took his intellectual wrecking ball to the republican "debates", but should that have stopped him?

And how can we promote liberty while cowering from its fundamental principle of free choice? Every time a debate about religion starts up here, you ask what we're doing to promote liberty. Well, then, what are YOU doing to promote liberty, if you're keeping your mouth shut around people who need to beaten over the head with the truth?

I'm beginning to think the only thing you conservatives care about is shaving off a little bit of the taxes you're required to pay.
 
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We should market our movement as "American Revolution".
Not left, not right, but American.

We have no issue with democrats. Just with socialism and huge government.
We have no issue with republicans. Just with neo-conservative fascist.
We were right about the economy. So lets kick out the Keynesians and kill the fed.
 
When you want to reach someone, it's sometimes more effective to point out their positive traits. We could reach out to Democrats and Republicans by pointing out all the things we agree on, and just leave the hot topics (child porn, drugs, abortion) off the platform for now.

People are stuck on the spectrum. They always will be. Most schools in the U.S. teach this B.S. spectrum:
Communism -- Liberal -- Moderate -- Conservative -- Fascist

When I tell people about Libertarianism, it goes right over their heads. Most of them can't even conceive of something that's not on the standard political spectrum. The simply don't get it. Now that I think about it, why didn't the Libertarian party try this approach a long time ago? If you agree with the left on some things and you agree with the right on some things, you're a type of moderate.

I like this idea.
 
I will not be calling myself a moderate.....ever. Labels are for beer & tyrants.
 
Libertarians would do better if they stopped leading with their desire to legalize child porn and recreational drugs. No matter how you cut it, as soon as most people hear that, they're going to run the other way and not listen to anything else you have to say.

I think we also should paint a picture of what life would look like, if we returned to a constitutional government. We spend way too much time talking about what everyone is doing wrong; instead of what should be done.

This is true. I made a thread on another forum about how we should get rid of age of consent laws once, and all I got was ridicule and anger. Not that some people dont try the same tactic when i post about abolishing the Fed, but at least there I can win the debate with facts, and the large majority of people who dont have strong personal feelings about the Fed are able to be swayed. I'm against the drug laws, but honestly, its nowhere near as important as abolishing the Fed or ending our empire. And if focusing mainly on the latter two for marketing purposes is more effective, that's the route I think we should go.

I think a lot of it is about marketing your ideas. Wearing a shirt with cannabis on it that says "LEGALIZE POT" for instance is just asking to have your ideas marginalized. Instead, we should broach the subject with more caution. For instance I was discussing this with my evangelical extended family this summer, and the convo went something like this. (They agreed with me on a lot of the stuff I said about finance, but as soon as the subject turned to drugs, they got defensive)

Them: Marijuana is so BAD. The government has a responsibility to keep our children safe by prosecuting people who use this stuff.

Me: I agree that drug abuse is a nasty thing. That's why I'm so passionate about having our laws reformed so that families, friends, and churches can deal with these issues instead of the federal government.

Them: But how can families friends and churches make someone quit taking drugs?

Me: They can't always make them quit, but they can often provide the support and help they need to reform their lives. Look at alcoholism. Think about many lives God has turned around by providing alcoholics with support groups and prayer partners. I'm not "pro drugs". I agree that drug abuse is a problem. But it seems like our difference is how to deal with that problem. I favor reform, and you favor incarceration. Prohibition and incarceration never worked with alcohol, and its not working with drugs. Just as is true with the economy, more government is never the best solution to dealing with a social problem. And besides, its not Constitutional in this case either.

Them: What do you mean it isn't Constitutional?

Me: Prohibition required the 18th amendment because the federal government knew it didnt have the authority to ban the sale or purchase or alcohol given that such authority was never enumerated in the Constitution, and the 10th amendment gives all non enumerated power to the states and the people. Nothing has changed since then, but the government now just creates statutes outlawing drugs even though they have no Constitutional authority to do so.


I didn't have anyone turning to my side after the argument, but I was able to present my case without being told I was a hopeless heathen. I knew my audience, and I managed to appeal to their religious conviction and to the Constitution while arguing my case. So while they initially assumed my position was "radical", I marketed it in a way that carried their own conservative premises to a logical conclusion that contradicted the one they previously held.

Don't let people try and pin you as being on the fringe or being the radical in the room. Point out that our ideas all point back to the Constitution, and that following the Constitution is as pro liberty and pro American as it gets. Abrogating our responsibility to follow our own laws is what's radicall
 
My views are rather radical and revolutionary...

Well, I hope you have an army of like-minded indviduals who can take take over the public education system and mass media. That's how the radical lefties have been able to effectively control the american government and the youth.

But note that the OP did not ask specifically what your views are, only what you market yourself as. Pepsi doesn't advertise itself as a "caffeinated, carbonated sugar water", even though that's plainly what it is. Instead, it's the "taste of a new generation".

Since children are now taught, by a variety of means, to hate anything "old", as anything old is invariably too white/racist/male and in the programming of their minds, so much so that these words often become synonyms. Pepsi has intelligently jumped on that "new" train. Take the neocons, for instance, or as I like to call them : liberals in thousand dollar suits. They have made successful inroads politically by pretending they are things they are not and getting people elected, though I do not think they have at all increased the base of "neoconian thought".

But I'm going to hold off on answering the OP, because I'd like him to clarify if he means to get more libertarian or libertarian-leaning people elected, or simply to increase the base of libertarian thinkers itself? At first blush, they seem highly related, but they really are not.
 
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I'll give you the child porn one, but...where has anyone really debated that in full force?:confused: Other than perhaps a tiny segment in a Mary Ruwart book, most know to steer clear of that. It's a moot point anyway, since most cases of child porn are simultaneously cases of human rights violations.

As for recreational drugs, hell no. Why should we compromise on that, when the war on drugs is by far one of the most rampantly destructive governmental actions we're faced with?

A whole lot of people covered their ears and shouted "la la la la" when Ron Paul took his intellectual wrecking ball to the republican "debates", but should that have stopped him?

And how can we promote liberty while cowering from its fundamental principle of free choice? Every time a debate about religion starts up here, you ask what we're doing to promote liberty. Well, then, what are YOU doing to promote liberty, if you're keeping your mouth shut around people who need to beaten over the head with the truth?

I'm beginning to think the only thing you conservatives care about is shaving off a little bit of the taxes you're required to pay.

Its a matter of strategy. I dont like drug laws either, but obsessing over them makes us lose credibility with the general public. And given that there are far greater evils than drug laws (The Fed, fiat money, the american empire), I question the wisdom of bringing fringe issues to the forefront of attention when they aren;t even on our top 5 list of biggest government evils.
 
It would also help if we didnt have 10% of every liberty oriented get together show up dressed as Ted Kaczinzky.
 
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