Worse Future Possibly Bill in America? The Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012

[Kregisen]

http://signon.org/sign/support-the-student-loan.fb9?source=s.fb&r_by=4628386

Student debt forgiveness isn't exactly a new idea, but it's an idea that is getting bigger. As of this posting, this bill has over 952,000 signatures on that link, with more every day.


Will this be the worst bill of all time? Taxing Americans to pay off other Americans' debt for purchasing services they couldn't afford to begin with? How about me, who has stayed frugal through college (lived with parents to save on rent until this year at age 20, worked since age 16, paying for affordable in-state college as I go) and am now working 50 hours a week at a paid internship which will pay off the remainder of my debt this summer, and will allow me to go through my senior year of college debt-free starting in the fall? Should I have instead chosen to go to an expensive out-of-state school with $50,000/year tuition and then just waited for a bill to pass to get taxpayers to foot my bill?

What's scary is, as the college bubble continues to grow, so will the average school debt, and the number of people who won't be able to pay off their $100,000+ of student loans, and voters will keep trying to get something like this passed, that will take money from everyone else to pay off these loans.

You only have a republic if you keep it. When you lose it and change into a democracy, the mob will rule everything, and will be able to take as much of your money and freedom as it wants.

Sorry for the rant. Maybe this can turn into a discussion, but I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees on this topic.

 

[roho76]

Bring it on. Fuck it. I say we print up 300,000,000, $1 Trillion dollar bills and hand them out in the streets to solve poverty. These people think money grows on trees and nothing is going to change their opinions on that.

 

[Gumba of Liberty]

The title of the bill is misleading. The only difference between this bill and the Income-Based Repayment Plan, which is already on the books, is that it reduces the payment period (from 25 years to 10 years) and allows students to consolidate private student loans with their Federal Loans. Worse bill ever? Hardly. With NDAA, the Patriot Act, TARP, Stimulus Packages, Obamacare and everything else shoved down our throats lately, not to mention the monstrosities passed during the New Deal and Great Society, this is a drop in the bucket. It's just a few more deck chairs shuffled on the Titanic. The upside to this bill is if you, like the majority of people on this board, believe the government is driving the country off the cliff then adding a few hundred billion too the debt will push us to reality a bit faster at the same time that it frees up a huge Ron Paul voting block to donate more to the cause of liberty and prepare for the coming collapse.

 

[Yieu]

Sorry for the rant. Maybe this can turn into a discussion, but I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees on this topic.

Thank you for the rant. I would like to be able to say that everyone here agrees that we shouldn't steal from those who were more frugal, but on this topic some disagee here. The point to understand is that the fact that a bank has the loan does not make loan forgiveness "okay". The people paying for it will be the rest of us, while the rest of us don't get the benefit of the fancy degree we're paying for. Or house for that matter, as I have heard similar rumblings about mortgage forgiveness. Free houses for those lucky enough to buy one they couldn't afford, none for those who didn't buy one because they knew they couldn't afford it.

The most wise thing to do in a debt forgiveness situation would be to buy as much as possible so everyone else has to pay for it. Of course, that would also be irresponsible and immoral, and would violate the non-aggression principle.

 

[jbauer]

Don't try to paint this as something this isn't. These students signed up for college. I did the same thing as the OP and worked my ass off to come out of school debt free. My folks didn't have the money to help. I will be in the streets rioting by myself if thats what it takes.

People need to take responsibility for their own decisions. There is no reason I should shoulder their shortcomings.

 

[VoluntaryAmerican]

Don't try to paint this as something this isn't. These students signed up for college. I did the same thing as the OP and worked my ass off to come out of school debt free. My folks didn't have the money to help. I will be in the streets rioting by myself if thats what it takes.

People need to take responsibility for their own decisions. There is no reason I should shoulder their shortcomings.

I happen to agree with you, but I think you're too hard on the students.

They were born in to a corrupt system that makes you get diplomas for almost everything and they were told from the age of 5 that they need a degree to be successful - it's the higher education system that is broken.

We need to reform the education system by getting the federal government out. That would solve most of the problem, the rest you can blame on the student's with accurate anger. But if you blame the students and not the broken system... you will likely convert no one to our side.

 

[jkr]

i just want to be able to go bankrupt- because i am.

oh and i did work in school on co-op.
about half way through, when i learned how bad *I* messed up i started looking for more work.
guess what?
the country was REALY hemorrhaging jobs in 2007( worse than it had been which drove me BACK to school) and i couldnt even find a pizza job.

the underlying problem is: you cant throw money at a problem that IS the product of our collective success.
the changes in the tools, materials, and production methods of most everything that it takes to make life go has been taken out of our hands.
Automation, dematerialization, conglomeration/ take overs, guilds/colleges, and the IP system by their Nature deny, remove, limit, the very need for competition and variation in goods producing industries...including food production.

there is simply, now, A LOT LESS TO DO TO MAKE LIFE GO.
there is plenty of supply of skilled, experienced, service providers, but the demand for those services has been destroyed.

guess i can get a job fixing the robot that took my job...too bad its in china.

 

[Kregisen]

guess i can get a job fixing the robot that took my job...too bad its in china.

That's a completely different issue, and one that is a good thing. Robots taking over jobs means a higher standard of living and more wealth created. 99% of people on the "jobs" issue are simply either stupid or don't understand. A job is not wealth. A job is a payment for wealth. To get carrots out of the ground, you need a farmer planting the seeds and watering, etc. The "job" is the time taken to create the wealth in the ground. If you can use a robot to do the same "job" yet create the same amount of wealth, you are RICHER, not poorer.

Because of this, prices for goods that are more productive using robots/machinery/tools (such as food costs) are astronomically lower than they would be if we were still only using manual labor.


The sheeple screaming about "jobs" (from BOTH parties I might add!) might as well use their "logic" and have the government pay people to dig holes and fill them back up again. That will create infinite jobs, but no wealth created. This is because the goal should NOT be jobs, but wealth.

The same rule applies to outsourcing/importing from china. I've argued this in many threads over the past 2 years. I suggest anyone interested in this point go take an international economics class, and you'll get your answers. There are objective facts on the issue that show the gains from the country outsourcing jobs/importing goods.

 

[Endgame]

A better solution would be to make student loans dischargeable through bankruptcy. The entire college system, and the system that finances it, needs to be destroyed.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

But I thought money grew on trees?

People don't realize or don't care that when they get monetary help from the government, that money came out of someone else's pocket. The pocket has been turned inside out to show it's empty, yet people act as if it's a bottomless pot of gold.

 

[tennman]

Why college loans? Why not home mortgage loans? Or credit card debt. Those are arguably more important because that'll keep people from being homeless. Screw all those companies who put out the money to begin with and have employees to pay. Heck, why don't we just make a law that whatever you want someone else has to pay for it? /sarcasm

It's amazing how liberals call people selfish for wanting to keep the money they earned, but liberals don't consider themselves selfish for wanting to take away money that they DIDN'T earn from someone else who did earn it. It's mind boggling and truly alarming that we live in a society that feels so entitled to the fruits of someone else's work. Wasn't slavery done away with?

 

[patriot2008]

i just want to be able to go bankrupt- because i am.

oh and i did work in school on co-op.
about half way through, when i learned how bad *I* messed up i started looking for more work.
guess what?
the country was REALY hemorrhaging jobs in 2007( worse than it had been which drove me BACK to school) and i couldnt even find a pizza job.

the underlying problem is: you cant throw money at a problem that IS the product of our collective success.
the changes in the tools, materials, and production methods of most everything that it takes to make life go has been taken out of our hands.
Automation, dematerialization, conglomeration/ take overs, guilds/colleges, and the IP system by their Nature deny, remove, limit, the very need for competition and variation in goods producing industries...including food production.

there is simply, now, A LOT LESS TO DO TO MAKE LIFE GO.
there is plenty of supply of skilled, experienced, service providers, but the demand for those services has been destroyed.

guess i can get a job fixing the robot that took my job...too bad its in china.

This is so true for many here. Young in life there is that mentality about doing whatever for that piece of paper that everyone says you need to be more successful.
This includes taking loans as costs for everything increase like a continuing dysfunctional system. "It will be ok. I can pay it off when I'm making that good money pretty much promised to me." (this same system exploiting me.) Doing Debt really is like a being a drug addict in a sense. This whole system really does need to be stopped!
I don't really blame the victims so much. They often get hooked when young and have very little knowledge of the "real world". Now I am even seeing it every day by even desperate older folks, most coming off unemployment. Many people making lower wages have wives and girlfriends in there 40's and 50' they used to be able to take care of, jumping into school this promise (lie) out of desperation. I fell into this long ago, even though I worked and even did the military too. Then for many many years, I've since paid off most of these loans on a tight budget, while having to support a family.
What a mess! Knowing what I know now I despise the whole system. We need to "Educate People" on this too. With every year that passes that I'm a part of this, I'm seeing more and more about how this Liberty movement is a way of life too. The differences are like good versus evil and a way of honesty versus a way of deceit.
Fighting is not just bullets, missiles or fists.

 

[JWZguy]

But I thought money grew on trees?

It grows on Merkle trees.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Why college loans? Why not home mortgage loans? Or credit card debt. Those are arguably more important because that'll keep people from being homeless. Screw all those companies who put out the money to begin with and have employees to pay. Heck, why don't we just make a law that whatever you want someone else has to pay for it? /sarcasm

It's amazing how liberals call people selfish for wanting to keep the money they earned, but liberals don't consider themselves selfish for wanting to take away money that they DIDN'T earn from someone else who did earn it. It's mind boggling and truly alarming that we live in a society that feels so entitled to the fruits of someone else's work. Wasn't slavery done away with?

Last I checked, those are already dismissed in bankruptcy, but student loans are not. (thank the student loan lobby for that.)

 

[seraphson]

Total outstanding student loan debt in America is expected to exceed $1 TRILLION this year. Millions of hardworking, taxpaying, educated Americans are being crushed under the weight of their educational debts, while the economy continues to sputter. Support a REAL economic stimulus and jobs plan. Support the Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012 (H.R. 4170).

Millions of hardworking, taxpaying, educated Americans are being crushed under the weight of their educational debts, while the economy continues to sputter.

hardworking, taxpaying, educated Americans

hardworking

taxpaying

educated Americans

HA!

HA!

HA!

Guarantee most of the people that signed it were the 95% of the 99% "occupiers" claiming to want more and bigger government. They fail to realize what they're asking for is what lead them to Wall St. in the very first place.

Now, to prevent confusion I'm not saying most kids with college debt aren't hardworking, taxpaying, and educated but I love the fact that all the kids that got the free lunch college education are inherently absent from the list. What's even funnier is I bet a lot of the people signing said petition also advocated the free rides for those just mentioned and are now paying inflated college loans because of it; handled of course by their favorite buddy big bro himself.

 

[RonPaulMall]

Why college loans? Why not home mortgage loans? Or credit card debt. Those are arguably more important because that'll keep people from being homeless. Screw all those companies who put out the money to begin with and have employees to pay. Heck, why don't we just make a law that whatever you want someone else has to pay for it? /sarcasm

Because those debts are dischargable and student loans are not. The extremely simple solution to the student debt problem is to allow those debts to be discharged like any other debt. But that solution would end the gravy train for the banks and the education industrial complex. So instead they come up with this convoluted mess that keeps the unsustainable current system intact and just forces taxpayers to subsidize the banks and schools when the students are no longer able. Pretty par for the course for our government.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Because those debts are dischargable and student loans are not. The extremely simple solution to the student debt problem is to allow those debts to be discharged like any other debt. But that solution would end the gravy train for the banks and the education industrial complex. So instead they come up with this convoluted mess that keeps the unsustainable current system intact and just forces taxpayers to subsidize the banks and schools when the students are no longer able. Pretty par for the course for our government.

Thanks for confirming. ~hugs~

 

[Pauls' Revere]

Bring it on. Fuck it. I say we print up 300,000,000, $1 Trillion dollar bills and hand them out in the streets to solve poverty. These people think money grows on trees and nothing is going to change their opinions on that.

^^this^^

I'm already paying off somebodys mortagage from the housing debacle, I'm paying off GM, Chrysler, and any other bank or to big to fail with the friggin bailouts. Fuck it! now you can pay for my loan.

 

[rockerrockstar]

Let them file bankruptcy is the best idea I believe. Then the system will have to adjust to a more reasonable price for education.

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

I was watching a PBS telethon and they had a financial adviser named Suze promoting her product. A man in the audience had over 100K in student loan debt, and Suze said she was working to make student loans be eligible for bankruptcy just like everything else, but that it is not in the law yet.

That is a reasonable proposal and long overdue, but student loan forgiveness it not.