Worse Future Possibly Bill in America? The Student Loan Forgiveness Act of 2012

[rockerrockstar]

The danger of not letting them file bankruptcy is that a Bill like this could pass. It is better to let them learn a lesson then to give everyone a free pass including the banks and the government for letting things get out of control.

If the students were defrauded by the colleges they should have a class action suit against them for false claims of being able to get a job.

If this Bill passes it will be unfair to those that did pay for their own college.

 

[bolil]

I don't think it would be a bad idea. If we are talking about making vast structural improvements to the fiscal policies of this country, we are going to have to forgive people that became snared (as opposed to laying the snares) in the old system.

People know damn well where the money comes from, to contend with this is to colour humanity stupid. I forgo that crayon and colour humanity as capricious as possible.

 

[Yieu]

I don't think it would be a bad idea.

Except for those not saddled with debt.

we are going to have to forgive people that became snared (as opposed to laying the snares) in the old system.

To give them a leg up over the people who did not, by allowing those with debt to have free fancy degrees and houses (a similar debt forgiveness) at the expense of those not saddled with debt, while those who chose to be frugal continue paying rent for an apartment.

It would create a new privileged class of individuals who were able to game the system by burdening themselves with debt, then getting the great reward for what they bought with the money they borrowed and not having to pay for it, while the new underclass gets punished for being responsible.

 

[Pauls' Revere]

why not? your gonna pay for Obama's Dream Act right?

 

[amonasro]

Passing a bill like this would be absurd on so many levels. Why not just have free education, cuz that's the next step.

 

[Yieu]

why not? your gonna pay for Obama's Dream Act right?

I'm already going to be paying for some programs I disagree with, so I should surely be okay with paying more for more programs I disagree with and get no benefit from, right?

 

[thoughtomator]

The proper solution:

1) Identify the architects of the student loan bubble and prosecute them all for epic fraud
2) Declare all student loan debt odious and thus null and void

That will wash the bad right out of the system and give people the chance to build something good in its place.

 

[Yieu]

2) Declare all student loan debt odious and thus null and void

Free degrees for those with student loan debt on the backs of those who don't have the debt does not sound appealing to me.

I wonder if this bill is a backdoor for socialized college. "We already made you pay for other people's degrees (which are higher than yours), might as well continue making you pay for others' expensive purchases."

I don't think I should be the one responsible for others' purchases, including their lavish education or big expensive houses.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Free degrees for those with student loan debt on the backs of those who don't have the debt does not sound appealing to me.

I wonder if this bill is a backdoor for socialized college. "We already made you pay for other people's degrees (which are higher than yours), might as well continue making you pay for others' expensive purchases."

I don't think I should be the one responsible for others' purchases, including their lavish education or big expensive houses.

Voiding debt does not socialize the cost. It's telling unwise creditors to eat sand. ETA: college is already quasi-socialized via federal grants and so forth.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Except for those not saddled with debt.



To give them a leg up over the people who did not, by allowing those with debt to have free fancy degrees and houses (a similar debt forgiveness) at the expense of those not saddled with debt, while those who chose to be frugal continue paying rent for an apartment.

It would create a new privileged class of individuals who were able to game the system by burdening themselves with debt, then getting the great reward for what they bought with the money they borrowed and not having to pay for it, while the new underclass gets punished for being responsible.

Having an inflated, mostly worthless degree isn't exactly a "great reward". The universities are going to make out like bandits-it's the dumb lenders who are going to take the hit. Lesson learned for lenders-don't make unsecured loans to 20-ish kids with little/no credit record and no plan for post-college life.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

A better solution would be to make student loans dischargeable through bankruptcy. The entire college system, and the system that finances it, needs to be destroyed.

Bingo! The loan industry lobbied for this protection, which created moral hazard and heavily contributed to the current debt mess. I believe the current system will be replaced pretty soon with organizations like the Khan academy. The old university system is outdated and mostly useless. (did you know the original universities were started in 16th century Bologna, specifically to train future elite politicians?)

 

[Yieu]

Having an inflated, mostly worthless degree isn't exactly a "great reward". The universities are going to make out like bandits-it's the dumb lenders who are going to take the hit. Lesson learned for lenders-don't make unsecured loans to 20-ish kids with little/no credit record and no plan for post-college life.

Having the degree would give them a leg up over people who went to community college or didn't go to college due to the cost, for free, is what I meant. And if it was at an expensive college, that is like if you had little because you were frugal and worked for everything you had while your neighbor bought tons of expensive stuff on debt, then the government forgives his debt, while the other person continues to pay for things they purchase rather than getting them for free.

And that is a good lesson to lenders, though they can learn it without debt forgiveness. There are alternatives.

Bingo! The loan industry lobbied for this protection, which created moral hazard and heavily contributed to the current debt mess.

Yeah, bankruptcy should be allowed for sure, and that protection of the industry is part of what created the bubble.

 

[John F Kennedy III]

What would happen if all the student loans were allowed to be wiped out through bankruptcy? Why would this be better than "student loan forgiveness"? Is it because it wouldn't take the printing of more fiat money to accomplish it?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

What would happen if all the student loans were allowed to be wiped out through bankruptcy? Why would this be better than "student loan forgiveness"? Is it because it wouldn't take the printing of more fiat money to accomplish it?

That, and it would reduce the moral hazard because lenders wouldn't be so loose with lending. We wouldn't have a glut of people with worthless degrees and buried in debt. I would prefer loans be dismissed through bankruptcy than forgiveness. That would get rid of bad debt without burdening taxpayers. Tuition and other prices would go up, but that's just an indicator of reality.

 

[KingNothing]

An awesome bill would be one sentence long:

"Any person with any debt can declare bankruptcy."

 

[KingNothing]

What would happen if all the student loans were allowed to be wiped out through bankruptcy? Why would this be better than "student loan forgiveness"? Is it because it wouldn't take the printing of more fiat money to accomplish it?

It would allow for an ordeally clearing of the books, and it comes with consequences to prevent advantage-taking and gaming of the system. It's a process that exists for a reason. That former students cannot utilize it is a ridiculous handout to the banking industry, so that politicians can pound their chests and claim that every American has a college education ---- consequences of that (debt slavery) be damned.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

http://signon.org/sign/support-the-student-loan.fb9?source=s.fb&r_by=4628386

Student debt forgiveness isn't exactly a new idea, but it's an idea that is getting bigger. As of this posting, this bill has over 952,000 signatures on that link, with more every day.


Will this be the worst bill of all time? Taxing Americans to pay off other Americans' debt for purchasing services they couldn't afford to begin with? How about me, who has stayed frugal through college (lived with parents to save on rent until this year at age 20, worked since age 16, paying for affordable in-state college as I go) and am now working 50 hours a week at a paid internship which will pay off the remainder of my debt this summer, and will allow me to go through my senior year of college debt-free starting in the fall? Should I have instead chosen to go to an expensive out-of-state school with $50,000/year tuition and then just waited for a bill to pass to get taxpayers to foot my bill?

What's scary is, as the college bubble continues to grow, so will the average school debt, and the number of people who won't be able to pay off their $100,000+ of student loans, and voters will keep trying to get something like this passed, that will take money from everyone else to pay off these loans.

You only have a republic if you keep it. When you lose it and change into a democracy, the mob will rule everything, and will be able to take as much of your money and freedom as it wants.

Sorry for the rant. Maybe this can turn into a discussion, but I'm pretty sure everyone here agrees on this topic.

We aren't faced today with one evil, but two. As long as the capitalistic banking system continues unabated, the threat of the implementation of social communism will remain. The American way to go is Watkinsian socialism which is a checks and balance solution. As any good farmer will recognize, with these people being the ones most screwed by the banking system, the best solution is to breed both of these evils to extinction by mating them together.
Therefore, in the future, all employees solely within the banking system from top to bottom will receive the same exact wage with no stock options, bonuses, benefits, and perks.
As we should all know by now, there exists no such thing as innovations in the banking system. As they will always be baled out by the disadvantaged people to the benefit of tyranny, they should be considered a part of the government.

 

[KingNothing]

Voiding debt does not socialize the cost. It's telling unwise creditors to eat sand. ETA: college is already quasi-socialized via federal grants and so forth.

For what it's worth, you probably couldn't allow people already in debt to declare bankruptcy. That would not be fair to whomever gave those people loans.

You could say that starting in 2013, all student loans will operate under the same free-market laws that all loans should be held to. Doing so wouldn't necessarily re-write the rules midway through the game. Everyone would have a clear understanding of his/her obligations in the contracts.

 

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

It would allow for an ordeally clearing of the books, and it comes with consequences to prevent advantage-taking and gaming of the system. It's a process that exists for a reason. That former students cannot utilize it is a ridiculous handout to the banking industry, so that politicians can pound their chests and claim that every American has a college education ---- consequences of that (debt slavery) be damned.

The economic idea of the Jewish Jubilee only works for a people under subjection to an empire. We are a Democratic Republic nation. As such, the disadvantaged people need to take control of the economy. In contrast, there exists no such thing as a poor economy for tyranny as they have become a leisure class in control of the means of counterfeit.
As much as people in here love to bash Christianity, even though for the life of me I don't know why they think a rich atheist economy is possible, they can't see how our secular tendencies are harmful to our nation.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

For what it's worth, you probably couldn't allow people already in debt to declare bankruptcy.

Huh? Why else would people declare bankruptcy?

That would not be fair to whomever gave those people loans.

How so? A person going through bankruptcy doesn't get a "free ride" like the bailed-out folks do. A bankruptcy fucks up one's life for a lonnnng time. It's one of the worst personal disasters there is.