Worldwide Outrage Grows Over Condemned Iranian Pastor

[jmdrake]

No he's really not. He's had many opportunities to deny it and he's consistently said that conversion to Christianity should equal death and that all good Muslims believe this as well.

So now you're an inquisitor? I've seen in threads where he's come flat out and said he wasn't still Muslim. Still he could be an atheist and despise a Christian he feels is imposing himself on someone else's culture. I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm just saying that you are drawing your conclusions on faulty information. But this won't be the first time.

You're acting like we don't have enough threads about the TSA.

We don't. And last time I saw you posting in a TSA thread you were taking the ridiculous "it's okay for the government to see us naked" position. Have you changed your mind now?

Here's the thing with this Pastor. Speaking up IS doing something. The reason he is still alive is BECAUSE of people posting it on Facebook and Twitter and forums. It got zero media attention for a long time and still is getting relatively little.

Glad you can feel like you're doing something. Now have you spoken up about the Sunday School teacher in America that got shot 5 times in the back by an LEO? How many times have you posted that on Facebook and Twitter? How much attention have you given that?

And it's an indication of a broader issue. If conversion to Christianity is actually punishable by death - how do you think Christians or minority groups in general are treated?

Ask the ones who are in the Iranian Parliament. And ask the family here in the U.S. of the Sunday School teacher shot by LEO how she was treated.

People in this country generally have it pretty good. Could we be better? Fuck yeah we could be a lot better. But compared to 90% of the world I'll take what we have.

No debating that. But you're picking out one story of one person as the be all end all of everything.

Edit: And lest this get's lost in the shuffle, I will repeat it:

Well when you consider that some Christians are so delusional about Islam that they believe Iran wants to start World War 3 to set off some unnamed "Koran" prophecy, I could see Muslims being afraid of that just like some delusional Christians are afraid of Islam. And the whole "Left behind" theology, couple with it's blockbuster movies and videogames where Christians kill non-believers and its belief that 144,000 Jews will convert to Christianity and the rest will be killed, is rather frightening even to other Christians.

I was making a point that you seem AFRAID to address that some Christians give Muslims cause to be afraid. The whole "Jews are God's special people even though the non-Messianic ones are going to hell" crowd. That's not biblical at all. Jesus told the Jews "Your house is left unto you desolate" and Paul said "There is neither Jew nor Greek nor bond nor free nor male nor female". This false believe leads to crazy politics. There were a group of such "Left Behind" Christians that were arrested in Israel on suspicion that they wanted to cause violence in order to set of Armageddon and bring on the 2nd coming of Christ. Now it's true that not all "Left Behind" Christians are that nutty. But John Hagee and his ilk come mighty close. How do we get beyond the "clash of civilizations" we are facing? By being honest with ourselves and each other about why the other side is afraid. That doesn't mean you can't post your prayer vigil for the pastor in peril. By all means go right ahead. But that doesn't give you the right to ignore legitimate points that are brought up by myself and others.

 

[eduardo89]

Wrong thread spam c0llinz, you've already posted that video twice.

 

[BlackTerrel]

So now you're an inquisitor? I've seen in threads where he's come flat out and said he wasn't still Muslim. Still he could be an atheist and despise a Christian he feels is imposing himself on someone else's culture. I'm not saying I agree with that. I'm just saying that you are drawing your conclusions on faulty information. But this won't be the first time.

I'm drawing conclusions based on the 50 times he has said he believes that Muslims that convert to Christianity are committing treason and think he is being killed. That's not drawing conclusions that's taking someone at their word.

You are suggesting he is making a joke - the same unfunny joke 50 times. I find that unlikely.

We don't. And last time I saw you posting in a TSA thread you were taking the ridiculous "it's okay for the government to see us naked" position. Have you changed your mind now?

It's towards the bottom of my concern list. Rand Paul whose dad is a doctor wanted to go through one twice rather than have a pat down - so I can't think it's that bad.

Glad you can feel like you're doing something. Now have you spoken up about the Sunday School teacher in America that got shot 5 times in the back by an LEO? How many times have you posted that on Facebook and Twitter? How much attention have you given that?

Everyone has issues that they are more or less passionate about. To me a government killing someone solely because they change religions is a big issue, and it is a rather unique case. It doesn't happen this often that it is so blatant. Fact is guy is still alive because people took to Facebook and Twitter. I think that's a good thing.

No debating that. But you're picking out one story of one person as the be all end all of everything.

If a government sees conversion to Christianity as punishable by death do you really think other Christians in the country are treated with dignity. It's not one person. Christians are the most persecuted people on the planet. And I happen to be close to a number of Coptic Christian Egyptians - same story.

Edit: And lest this get's lost in the shuffle, I will repeat it:

Well when you consider that some Christians are so delusional about Islam that they believe Iran wants to start World War 3 to set off some unnamed "Koran" prophecy, I could see Muslims being afraid of that just like some delusional Christians are afraid of Islam. And the whole "Left behind" theology, couple with it's blockbuster movies and videogames where Christians kill non-believers and its belief that 144,000 Jews will convert to Christianity and the rest will be killed, is rather frightening even to other Christians.

I was making a point that you seem AFRAID to address that some Christians give Muslims cause to be afraid. The whole "Jews are God's special people even though the non-Messianic ones are going to hell" crowd. That's not biblical at all. Jesus told the Jews "Your house is left unto you desolate" and Paul said "There is neither Jew nor Greek nor bond nor free nor male nor female". This false believe leads to crazy politics. There were a group of such "Left Behind" Christians that were arrested in Israel on suspicion that they wanted to cause violence in order to set of Armageddon and bring on the 2nd coming of Christ. Now it's true that not all "Left Behind" Christians are that nutty. But John Hagee and his ilk come mighty close. How do we get beyond the "clash of civilizations" we are facing? By being honest with ourselves and each other about why the other side is afraid. That doesn't mean you can't post your prayer vigil for the pastor in peril. By all means go right ahead. But that doesn't give you the right to ignore legitimate points that are brought up by myself and others.

What does this guy have to do with any of that? The law in Iran is that a Muslim who converts to Christianity is to be put to death. It doesn't matter what his politics are or what his beliefs are. That to me is a fear thing, it's a control thing, it's a "hey if this Christianity thing gets popular our position of power will be threatened so we need to kill anyone who dares talk about it".

 

[otherone]

The law in Iran is that a Muslim who converts to Christianity is to be put to death. It doesn't matter what his politics are or what his beliefs are. That to me is a fear thing, it's a control thing, it's a "hey if this Christianity thing gets popular our position of power will be threatened so we need to kill anyone who dares talk about it".

Apostasy in Islam often carries the death penalty. Would you be as concerned if Islam converts to Hinduism are executed?

 

[jmdrake]

I'm drawing conclusions based on the 50 times he has said he believes that Muslims that convert to Christianity are committing treason and think he is being killed. That's not drawing conclusions that's taking someone at their word.

You are suggesting he is making a joke - the same unfunny joke 50 times. I find that unlikely.

Other people who are not Muslim have said the same thing. I'm saying that you have no proof that he's Muslim. I'm asserting that based on things I've said with regards to himself not being Muslim at this point. Apples and oranges.

It's towards the bottom of my concern list. Rand Paul whose dad is a doctor wanted to go through one twice rather than have a pat down - so I can't think it's that bad.

Gee. He'd rather be scanned then molested. Must mean that it's a-okay. When you find out that some pervert at TSA is jacking off to nude scans of your children don't come crying to me.

Everyone has issues that they are more or less passionate about. To me a government killing someone solely because they change religions is a big issue, and it is a rather unique case. It doesn't happen this often that it is so blatant. Fact is guy is still alive because people took to Facebook and Twitter. I think that's a good thing.

And the Sunday School teacher shot and killed by police here in America isn't something you are passionate about. Got it.

What does this guy have to do with any of that? The law in Iran is that a Muslim who converts to Christianity is to be put to death. It doesn't matter what his politics are or what his beliefs are. That to me is a fear thing, it's a control thing, it's a "hey if this Christianity thing gets popular our position of power will be threatened so we need to kill anyone who dares talk about it".

Are you being serious? I was responding to the particular question of why Muslims might be afraid of Christians. I gave you a clear reason why. Does that justify this pastor being killed? Of course not. But it does address the simple question of why Muslims are afraid. They have good reason to be afraid. What they do with that fear is another matter. If you can't understand that then I feel sorry for you.

 

[eduardo89]

I'm drawing conclusions based on the 50 times he has said he believes that Muslims that convert to Christianity are committing treason and think he is being killed. That's not drawing conclusions that's taking someone at their word.

And he's correct. For Muslims it is treason as it is against Islamic law. Since Iran is an Islamic republic, apostasy is the same as treason against the state. Is that hard to understand?

 

[BlackTerrel]

Apostasy in Islam often carries the death penalty. Would you be as concerned if Islam converts to Hinduism are executed?

Yeah I think that would be pretty fucked up. It represents a fear that "our religion is so vulnerable that unless we outlaw conversion away from it we will lose power".

 

[BlackTerrel]

Other people who are not Muslim have said the same thing. I'm saying that you have no proof that he's Muslim. I'm asserting that based on things I've said with regards to himself not being Muslim at this point. Apples and oranges.

Being Muslim is not the issue. I have no problem with people being Muslim or not being Muslim.

Do you not get that supporters of Ron Paul advocating that converts to Christianity be put to death is seriously fucked up?

Are you being serious? I was responding to the particular question of why Muslims might be afraid of Christians. I gave you a clear reason why. Does that justify this pastor being killed? Of course not. But it does address the simple question of why Muslims are afraid. They have good reason to be afraid. What they do with that fear is another matter. If you can't understand that then I feel sorry for you.

No they do not. They have no good reason to fear a Muslim in their own country choosing of his own free will to change religions

 

[BlackTerrel]

And he's correct. For Muslims it is treason as it is against Islamic law. Since Iran is an Islamic republic, apostasy is the same as treason against the state. Is that hard to understand?

I completely understand it. Do you not understand that killing someone for their religion is fucked up?

 

[BlackTerrel]

Pastor released!

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/09/21/pastor-youcef-nadarkhani-writes-letter-thanks-to-supporters/

Christian pastor Youcef Nadarkhani has spoken out in a letter of thanks to his supporters around the world after his release from the Iranian prison where he was held for three years for refusing to renounce his faith.

The carefully worded, approximately 600-word letter does not express any bitterness toward the regime that kept him in prison on charges that were not always clear. Nadarkhani, a married father, was freed one month shy of three years and cannot leave the country for at least another month under the terms of his release. The letter cites the groundswell of support from around the world, including diplomatic efforts by several countries and a Twitter campaign that involved more than a million people.

“I also want to express my gratitude towards those who, all around the world, have worked for my cause, or should I say the cause that I defend. I want to express my gratitude to all of those who have supported me, openly or in complete secrecy. You are all very dear to my heart,” Nadarkhani said in the letter dated Sept. 8, the day he was released. It was written in his native Farsi and translated by Present Truth Ministries.

“Despite the fact that I have been found guilty of apostasy according to a certain reading of the Shariah, I am grateful that (God) gave the leaders of the country the wisdom to break that judgment taking into account other facts of that same Shariah,” he also wrote.

Nadarkhani's plight began when he went to his sons' school to complain that educators were forcing lessons from the Koran on the boys, now 7 and 9. That led to his arrest for allegedly using his home as a place of worship and attempting to convert Muslims and ultimately his conviction by the Iranian Supreme Court. His release came when the court downgraded his crime to "evangelizing to Muslims" and let him out with what amounted to time served.

The campaign to win Nadarkhani's freedom was largely spearheaded by the American Center for Law and Justice, which tracked his court appearances throughout his incarceration.

"Pastor Youcef’s courage and faith is awe inspiring. It is clear that regardless of whether Pastor Youcef ever received one letter of support of the thousands sent or heard one news report on the international outcry for his freedom while in prison, he felt the prayers and support of the entire international community," Tiffany Barrans, the center's international legal director, told FoxNews.com.

The organization also has spotlighted several other Christians who remain imprisoned in Iran for their faith

"We must continue to uplift and support those who remain imprisoned or persecuted for their faith," Barrans said. "Let us continue to cry out that Iran, and other violators of these human rights, uphold their international obligation to protect the innocent and honor freedom of religion."