Woman Gets Stung By Scorpion, Goes to Hospital for AntiVenom, Gets $83,000 Bill

[brandon]

It's a travesty that you can't go to your cornerstore and pick up a vial of anti-venom in places that have high populations of venomous animals.

 

[alucard13mmfmj]

It's a travesty that you can't go to your cornerstore and pick up a vial of anti-venom in places that have high populations of venomous animals.

Anti-venom must be obtained from the actual animals themselves... Some anti-venom requires couple hundred animals to create one vial. I somewhat do understand why anti-venom is quite expensive. A person has to handle deadly animals thousands, maybe tens of thousands of times. Probablly not easy purifying the venom to make anti-venom as well.

 

[Kregisen]

Anti-venom must be obtained from the actual animals themselves... Some anti-venom requires couple hundred animals to create one vial. I somewhat do understand why anti-venom is quite expensive. A person has to handle deadly animals thousands, maybe tens of thousands of times. Probablly not easy purifying the venom to make anti-venom as well.

That point is irrelevant. We have the cost from buying a vial from mexico...$100. The problem is not how hard it is to make - the problem is regulation and lack of competititon is why a $100 vial turns into $3500 into the U.S. turns into $39,000 at a hospital.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Why are price gouging laws are not enforced upon hospitals, insurance, attorneys, and the like? Perhaps it is time for us all to cease thinking of such professions/professionals as modern day equivalents to the Oracle of Delphi?

Great question. Would be nice to hear from a legal expert on that. If they do exist, why don't they apply?

 

[dillo]

This problem is caused by oligopoly, insurance and government interference. The solution is more competition.

Its not possible to have more competition in this situation, is the lady gonna drive hospital to hospital to find the best price? They price gouge because of their monopolistic position, there is no alternative to healthcare.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Its not possible to have more competition in this situation, is the lady gonna drive hospital to hospital to find the best price? They price gouge because of their monopolistic position, there is no alternative to healthcare.

That's the emergency nature of healthcare. When there is an emergency, there is no time to shop around. If there was sufficient competition, word would get around as to who are the price gougers.

It's like charging $20,000 for a bottle of water when someone is on the verge of dying of thirst.

 

[Acala]

Great question. Would be nice to hear from a legal expert on that. If they do exist, why don't they apply?

The only "price gouging" laws I know of are emergency measures enacted at various times during specific crisis situations - like the oil embargo back in the 70's. I don't believe there are any general price gouging statutes on the books, although there are price controls of various kinds. But I certainly could be wrong.

Of course "price gouging" is just a perjorative term for the market doing EXACTLY what it is supposed to do - raise prices in the face of scarcity to help allocate scarce resources to the highest use. Government interference distorts this function, but there is nothing inherently wrong with charging the highest price you can get for goods and services. That is how it is supposed to work.

 

[libertyjam]

Its not possible to have more competition in this situation, is the lady gonna drive hospital to hospital to find the best price? They price gouge because of their monopolistic position, there is no alternative to healthcare.

In the early '80's or so, Urgent Care Clinics started opening up all over the place, they had a really good business model, would take care of cuts and scrapes and sprains and sniffles. Reasonably priced, you could pay the bill out-of-pocket. I went to one to get some stitches once, cost about $35-40, good care, today's dollars would probably cost $100-150 if they were honest. And it made perfect sense, ER's wouldn't get so clogged up with cuts and scrapes and sniffles, and if anything more serious than they could handle they would refer you on.

Then local hospitals started complaining that their ER's were losing too much business, and since many were publicly subsidized, were able to get ordinances passed restricting the competition, and all the small storefront clinics quickly dried up and were forced out. Also i don't know how much our tort happy public added to their demise.

I think only recently have they started allowing them again, I went to one that I found close by a few years ago for a secondary infection earache, cost was about $225 for diagnosis and prescription (the paper, not the drugs themselves).

 

[Brian4Liberty]

...Of course "price gouging" is just a perjorative term for the market doing EXACTLY what it is supposed to do - raise prices in the face of scarcity to help allocate scarce resources to the highest use.
...

That is not how I would define "price gouging", although other people might. Like I said, it is raising the price to extraordinary levels in the face of an acute emergency, that will obviously not exist in the very near future. At the very least I would call it immoral.

The market setting prices based on scarcity is proper. Of course when corporatist governments create artificial scarcity or abundance for the profit of cronies, that is a different, and less moral situation.

 

[ZenBowman]

That's the emergency nature of healthcare. When there is an emergency, there is no time to shop around. If there was sufficient competition, word would get around as to who are the price gougers.

It's like charging $20,000 for a bottle of water when someone is on the verge of dying of thirst.

Even if you knew who the price gougers were, in an emergency you might be unable to get to them (for example if a price gouging hospital was closer to you and the more reasonable one was 10 mins away).

This is a tricky situation.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Even if you knew who the price gougers were, in an emergency you might be unable to get to them (for example if a price gouging hospital was closer to you and the more reasonable one was 10 mins away).

This is a tricky situation.

Does 10 minutes matter when they make you wait in the emergencey room for 6 hours before you get treated?

And I would point out the true emergencies are a corner case. Most people that go to the Doctor, or even Emergency Rooms are not there for imminent, life-threatening reasons.

 

[Kregisen]

Even if you knew who the price gougers were, in an emergency you might be unable to get to them (for example if a price gouging hospital was closer to you and the more reasonable one was 10 mins away).

This is a tricky situation.

The vast majority of patients would be able to make the other hospital. Because of sheer numbers, the 2nd hospital would learn to drop its prices due to all the bad press of its high prices, and the fact the a good 80% of its patients are going across the street the the reasonable one.

Of course there will be a life-threatening case when every second matters, but no hospital can survive on those patients. The fact of the matter is competition would force hospitals like the one in the scorpion case to lower its prices, or risk going out of business.

 

[tod evans]

If they spend only 20 minutes with you, that's 150/hour. You mean to tell me you can't profit from 150/hour? And as I said, if you elliminate all the bullshit paperwork, you'd free up more time and increase profitability.

If you are going in there for just a cold, like the other poster suggested was the bulk of the problem, you don't need any fancy tests. Even if you did, those tests should not cost as much as they are charging.

Give this just a little thought........."They" includes whom?

Take a wild guess of just the physical overhead necessary to run an ER.

Now take a wild guess about staffing that ER.

Now take a wild guess about stuff like malpractice insurance and continuing education...

A freeking plumber gets better than $150 for a 15min snake job on your drain for heavens sake.

 

[tttppp]

Give this just a little thought........."They" includes whom?

Take a wild guess of just the physical overhead necessary to run an ER.

Now take a wild guess about staffing that ER.

Now take a wild guess about stuff like malpractice insurance and continuing education...

A freeking plumber gets better than $150 for a 15min snake job on your drain for heavens sake.

Your getting too caught up in the specifics. Even if they charge 150 a visit, that is still reasonable and way more affordable than it currently is, and still gives you plenty of profit.

Take a guess at what percentage of time a doctor spends on paperwork. Some of the nurses I talked to recently talked about how they are spending most of their time now filling out paperwork. If you were able to eliminate most of that bs, guess what will happen to hospitals' profitability.

If malpractice insurance is too much, maybe they should do their job right the first time, that way patients won't complain. Continuing education is mostly bullshit. If you aren't learning enough by performing your job, maybe you should find a new career.

 

[tod evans]

By-golly you're right!

March your happy ass on down to your local hospital and apply for the administrator position.

Your getting too caught up in the specifics. Even if they charge 150 a visit, that is still reasonable and way more affordable than it currently is, and still gives you plenty of profit.

Take a guess at what percentage of time a doctor spends on paperwork. Some of the nurses I talked to recently talked about how they are spending most of their time now filling out paperwork. If you were able to eliminate most of that bs, guess what will happen to hospitals' profitability.

If malpractice insurance is too much, maybe they should do their job right the first time, that way patients won't complain. Continuing education is mostly bullshit. If you aren't learning enough by performing your job, maybe you should find a new career.

 

[tttppp]

By-golly you're right!

March your happy ass on down to your local hospital and apply for the administrator position.

I could do a way better job of running a hospital than at least most hospitals management. If you are not capable of finding inefficiencies in our healthcare system, perhaps this site is too much for you. You certainly would not be able to find inefficiencies in our government.

 

[specsaregood]

I could do a way better job of running a hospital than at least most hospitals management.

lmao.

March your happy ass on down to your local hospital and apply for the administrator position.

that.

 

[Acala]

That is not how I would define "price gouging", although other people might. Like I said, it is raising the price to extraordinary levels in the face of an acute emergency, that will obviously not exist in the very near future. At the very least I would call it immoral.

Who is to say what an "extraordinary" level is? There really is nobody qualified to set price other than the market and complaining about prices the market sets is like complaining about the weather.

 

[Acala]

If malpractice insurance is too much, maybe they should do their job right the first time, that way patients won't complain. Continuing education is mostly bullshit. If you aren't learning enough by performing your job, maybe you should find a new career.

Hahahaha. Yes, because there is no such thing as a frivolous lawsuit.

 

[dillo]

are there anti-trust laws in medicine? For example when I moved out of an apartment they had to document what they charged me for on my security deposit. So if this hospital is buying 100 dollar vials and selling them for 80,000 could a person sue them for charging an unreasonably high price?