Woman Gets Stung By Scorpion, Goes to Hospital for AntiVenom, Gets $83,000 Bill

[AGRP]

To answer your question, in most areas you CAN'T build a hospital without demonstrating to a government board the need for the hospital.

On that board are people from existing hospitals in the given region.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Who says it isn't? There are quite a few walkin clinics opening in drugstores, often staffed by nurse practioner. now I'm not certain; but AZ is on the list of states that nurse practioners can prescribe without a doctor. so perhaps she could have gotten it all take care of with a $50 walk inclinic prescription and a 15ft walk to the prescription department?

Is that already losing momentum? Someone recently said that they were closing a lot of them.

 

[kathy88]

What if afterward the patient went to Mexico and bought 2 doses. Then brought it them to America and offered the drug doses to the hospital to replace the ones they used?

NO mundane drug cartel lord. NO.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

And let's not forget that the insurance industry itself wants an Oligopoly. That is the basis for mandates. Also notice how liability and malpractice insurance are required. The insurance industry is in this up to it's eyeballs.

 

[specsaregood]

Is that already losing momentum? Someone recently said that they were closing a lot of them.

It probably varies on state. From what I see its still growing, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Acala]

And let's not forget that the insurance industry itself wants an Oligopoly. That is the basis for mandates. Also notice how liability and malpractice insurance are required. The insurance industry is in this up to it's eyeballs.

Actually, the insurance industry wanted mandates because it needs to force low-risk young people into the risk pool in order to pay for the higher cost of covering pre-existing conditions and other extensions of coverage. In other words, the young are being screwed to pay for the health care of the old.

I can't imagine operating a business WITHOUT liability insurance unless I personally had nothing to lose financially.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

I can't imagine operating a business WITHOUT liability insurance unless I personally had nothing to lose financially.

Ever shop around for that? How expensive is it and what do you get? Do you pay money to have the privilege of saying "I have coverage", yet the coverage has so much fine print and exceptions that it might not cover anything? It's a game of "get everybody to pay us", and if someone isn't paying, we'll make them suffer. Like paying protection money to the mafia.

 

[LibForestPaul]

Taxes

Hypothetical

I am a doctor. My contracted rate for BlueCross for opABC is $100.
I charge you $100. That is gross income
You, uninsured/under-insured visit me for opABC.
I charge you at $1000 dollars.
You either pay or do not pay.
If you do not pay, what happens to my gross income of $100 for 2 operations?
Wait, I provided a service but did not get paid.... What is my taxable income?

 

[tttppp]

http://www.azcentral.com/business/a...-sting-leaves-woman-big-bill.html?sf5898739=1




The local newspaper's facebook page posted this story today and the comments are riddled with people saying "those greedy pharmaceutical companies trying to make a buck!! This is why we need obamacare" etc. They are very misled as to how to fix this problem. The solution is more competition and less regulation (regulation stiffles competition), not trying to get rid of capitalism. My question to you guys is, how come vials of antivenom are $100 in Mexico, but thousands of dollars in America, and how come the hospital is getting away with selling it for $40,000 per dose? I am no expert on anything related to healthcare, but it seems like the issue is the hospital may have a monopoly on the local community and can thus charge whatever it wants for its services with inelastic demand. Is the solution simply more hospitals?

This is an example of why people don't pay their hospital bills. Most people are not free loaders. When you don't have insurance, the hospitals jack up the price and scam you, that way you buy insurance. As you said, the answer is less regulation and more competition, that way these scum bags don't get away with this. We don't need to bankrupt this contry mandating insurance just to solve the non existent problem of free loaders.

 

[Kregisen]

So if you're elected in your state, how do you go about allowing more competition? Is the solution as simple as saying "get rid of these boards that dictate who can and who can't build a hospital here that creates these oligopolies and makes people pay multiple times more than they would if the industry was highly competitive"?

 

[LibForestPaul]

So if you're elected in your state, how do you go about allowing more competition? Is the solution as simple as saying "get rid of these boards that dictate who can and who can't build a hospital here that creates these oligopolies and makes people pay multiple times more than they would if the industry was highly competitive"?

no, first the fed gov and corporate ties have to be severed. i.e. I should be able, to purchase any drug from any person for my personal use. I.e. My right to exchange my property for property of some others should stop being infringed by the barrel of a gun.

Try to open a website selling anti-venom for $150 and see what happens.

 

[MelissaWV]

I'm sure she applied for consideration through the charity program if she really cannot afford to pay the out of network benefits/co-insurance she agreed to when she accepted that policy.

Chandler Regional Medical Center: A Dignity Health Member
...
In 2011, Dignity Health provided $1.4 billion in charity care, community benefit and unreimbursed patient care.

And yes, I agree the price is decidedly inflated. You can see the biggest problem just by going to their website:

http://www.anascorp-us.com/

You can also read the IFU... which states she should have had 3 vials to start with. At "cost" ($3500/ea), that is still over $10,000 and it does not include the time and materials used in the ER. IV meds don't generally administer themselves.

 

[tttppp]

So if you're elected in your state, how do you go about allowing more competition? Is the solution as simple as saying "get rid of these boards that dictate who can and who can't build a hospital here that creates these oligopolies and makes people pay multiple times more than they would if the industry was highly competitive"?

That's part of it. But you have to get rid of these regulations on the insurance industry which limits competition and allows the insurance companies to fuck the industry.

 

[2young2vote]

I'd like to know more about that $100 vial from Mexico. It could be that low because there are extreme price controls thus greatly reducing the supply.

 

[angelatc]

I understand how prices work (econ minor). Are the hospitals getting government subsidies? Are they're selling them for $40,000, not $4,000. The distibutor mentioned in the article is selling for $3,000-$4,000.

OK, I haven't read down the thread, but what's the shelf life on this? Most people don't develop allergic reactions to scorpion stings, so it's pretty safe to assume that most people don't go to the hospital to get the antidote.

So, depending on how long the antidote stays fresh, and how often they have to throw it away can have an effect on the price to the consumer. In theory, she may have been paying for 10 vials that got thrown away.

 

[pcosmar]

I'd like to know more about that $100 vial from Mexico. It could be that low because there are extreme price controls thus greatly reducing the supply.

Used to be able to buy drugs online (cheaper) from other countries.. Bush put an end to that.

She should have just taken some OTC Benadryl.
They sold her anti-venom because they could.

Scorpions don't bite; they don't have teeth. Scorpions do, however, sting. Unfortunately we have many types of scorpions in Arizona. If you remain calm, it is not difficult to treat a scorpion sting. Even if you are stung by the Arizona bark scorpion -- the most dangerous and venomous of the our scorpions -- it is not likely to be fatal or even to have long-lasting effects.

Learn how to take care of yourself,, and to do your own repairs as much as possible.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

You also have the hospitals that run up the bills as high as possible to charge against medicare. Ever know an elderly person on medicare and see what the hospitals do? Do every test in the world, keep them in the hospital at least a week. It's all a big scam.

 

[tod evans]

Learn how to take care of yourself,, and to do your own repairs as much as possible.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[RonRules]

Open borders would solve that particular problem.

 

[angelatc]

Is that already losing momentum? Someone recently said that they were closing a lot of them.

WalMart, who aggressively supported Obamacare, is now expanding their clinic model.