Wisconsin Gov. Warns 12,000 State Workers Could be Fired Without Budget Deal

[moostraks]

I'm calling BS on that article because it lacks detail. There is no way in hell this...allegation...can hold water for a simple fact educators 'educate.' They turn in their grades, they write down reports on each child. The child is tested, tests are recorded and filed, and you're going to tell me the educators are at fault?....more likely, and i know the truth can hurt sometimes, but i believe ADMINISTRATORS either fudged the results to get more money, or somebody is lying their ass off in that article and making shit up to boost their anti-public school agenda....

They teach for the test. I have seen the books. In fact I have a copy of a popular US History book used by the all mighty government schools. The graphics are so overwhelming that it is no wonder many students have adhd. Then there are bullet points for what to remember to pass the test. The students don't have to have reading comprehension skills, they just have to read and memorize.

So I have no doubt the students are tested and the tests are recorded. All they have been working at for years is teaching test taking skills. However, reading proficiently means that one can read and comprehend material not coached in such a manner as to be pointing out an obvious answer to a question. My students are taught by employing much of Charlotte Mason's philosophy. I noticed a drastic improvement in retention and comprehension over the read and test format of textbook companies. However, Mason's methods are difficult to employ when one has numerous students and wants to just grade papers quickly and move on.

 

[JK/SEA]

They teach for the test. I have seen the books. In fact I have a copy of a popular US History book used by the all mighty government schools. The graphics are so overwhelming that it is no wonder many students have adhd. Then there are bullet points for what to remember to pass the test. The students don't have to have reading comprehension skills, they just have to read and memorize.

So I have no doubt the students are tested and the tests are recorded. All they have been working at for years is teaching test taking skills. However, reading proficiently means that one can read and comprehend material not coached in such a manner as to be pointing out an obvious answer to a question. My students are taught by employing much of Charlotte Mason's philosophy. I noticed a drastic improvement in retention and comprehension over the read and test format of textbook companies. However, Mason's methods are difficult to employ when one has numerous students and wants to just grade papers quickly and move on.

They teach for the test. I have seen the books. In fact I have a copy of a popular US History book used by the all mighty government schools. The graphics are so overwhelming that it is no wonder many students have adhd. Then there are bullet points for what to remember to pass the test. The students don't have to have reading comprehension skills, they just have to read and memorize.

So I have no doubt the students are tested and the tests are recorded. All they have been working at for years is teaching test taking skills. However, reading proficiently means that one can read and comprehend material not coached in such a manner as to be pointing out an obvious answer to a question. My students are taught by employing much of Charlotte Mason's philosophy. I noticed a drastic improvement in retention and comprehension over the read and test format of textbook companies. However, Mason's methods are difficult to employ when one has numerous students and wants to just grade papers quickly and move on.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Moostraks. As i sit here at my keyboard, i wander back in time on how it was for me in public school. I will admit to being distracted, a mind wandering male looking at the pretty girls and waiting for that bell to ring so i could go play baseball or football. Homework was a joke for me. Took me 30 minutes to read and finish up anything i had. Sometimes i just blew it off, hence my low GPA, but school was a yawner for me. The other kids i noticed were a mixed bag as is usual. You had the brainiacs, the slow learners..or lazy..(me) and the kids who just appeared ready to drop out. Now that i'm older and retired and with a PRIVATE pension, i see that i believe i was just immature, and not ready for anything schools had to offer, but i was labeled a slow learner..and i think..geez, how many kids are there who really aren't ready for the discipline it takes to do well in school, all because they haven't reached that growing phase called maturity to focus on lessons, and what teachers are trying to do?...point i'm trying to get at is, this 'learning' gig we all go through is not a black and white issue. Everybody is different as you know.
Girls mature faster, hence their ability to do well in school as a rule, compared to most boys of the same age, however this does change the older we become, and the boy who was considered a flunky in 4th grade, is now a student body president with 3 or 4 point gpa...i've seen this happen. How can a teacher lead a horse to water AND make him drink?...society it appears believes teachers are somehow omnipotent, especially those teachers in public schools where they are constantly derided, ridiculed, held up to a higher standard, and expected to perform miracles with a child in just a short time frame. Too many variables. I already pointed out the fact public schools HAVE to take in kids with many problems, including kids with learning disabilities, but are expected to get that child up to speed or face the wrath of the taxpayer, and self serving politicians. Meanwhile parents get a free pass...no matter what.

 

[moostraks]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply Moostraks. As i sit here at my keyboard, i wander back in time on how it was for me in public school. I will admit to being distracted, a mind wandering male looking at the pretty girls and waiting for that bell to ring so i could go play baseball or football. Homework was a joke for me. Took me 30 minutes to read and finish up anything i had. Sometimes i just blew it off, hence my low GPA, but school was a yawner for me. The other kids i noticed were a mixed bag as is usual. You had the brainiacs, the slow learners..or lazy..(me) and the kids who just appeared ready to drop out. Now that i'm older and retired and with a PRIVATE pension, i see that i believe i was just immature, and not ready for anything schools had to offer, but i was labeled a slow learner..and i think..geez, how many kids are there who really aren't ready for the discipline it takes to do well in school, all because they haven't reached that growing phase called maturity to focus on lessons, and what teachers are trying to do?...point i'm trying to get at is, this 'learning' gig we all go through is not a black and white issue. Everybody is different as you know.
Girls mature faster, hence their ability to do well in school as a rule, compared to most boys of the same age, however this does change the older we become, and the boy who was considered a flunky in 4th grade, is now a student body president with 3 or 4 point gpa...i've seen this happen. How can a teacher lead a horse to water AND make him drink?...society it appears believes teachers are somehow omnipotent, especially those teachers in public schools where they are constantly derided, ridiculed, held up to a higher standard, and expected to perform miracles with a child in just a short time frame. Too many variables. I already pointed out the fact public schools HAVE to take in kids with many problems, including kids with learning disabilities, but are expected to get that child up to speed or face the wrath of the taxpayer, and self serving politicians. Meanwhile parents get a free pass...no matter what.

I get exactly what you are saying. I was told to pursue a teaching career years ago and turned it down because I did not want to teach people like me (I had an attitude and was fairly unmotivated)...lol. I never did homework. I had a good short term memory. So I reviewed prior to taking tests and passed within the 3-4 point average. I was in college level classes because I tested well. I quit before going into 12th grade and moved to Europe. I remember nothing and am now learning information for real as I teach my children.

Lazy parents are totally getting a free pass and I am sick of it too. I get so frustrated with those who just dump their children on the system and expect it will turn out well. They are told by many who are certified teachers, though, that they are incapable of teaching or have fallen through a broken system themselves. The system is broken and it isn't helping children, parents, families, or teachers who really want to teach. If parents aren't made to be financially responsible for the education of their children it will continue imo. I don't care whether a community provides education as long as the participants fund it and it isn't federalized as a one size fits all countrywide model.

As for those with learning disabilities the teachers should be taking this up with the parents and school administration. All children do not learn the same but most are expected to go through the assembly line. Teachers are the ones who know where things are going wrong because they spend the time with the children and see where the weaknesses are for the particular student in question. If the school is continually failing the students because it fails to provide alternative options for those who aren't mainstream, then it is the moral responsibility of those in the know(the teacher) to advocate and as last recourse withdraw from a failing system. Were my husband not a tolerant man who funds my school adventures I would not have continued to teach our children. I have numerous resources and even within the comparatively few students I have, problems crop up due to learning style differences. (Henceforth why I have so many resources.) Anyways by keeping classes small and parents deeply involved, much as homeschooling does, the ability to hide/fall through the system would almost disappear.

 

[idirtify]

It seems the discussion has veered into a debate over the value of public education. I’d like to get it back on the subject of government unions.

For the moment let’s ignore the issue of whether collective bargaining is ever a “right” (since it isn’t the same as “voluntary association”, it is debatable). The gov doesn’t have “rights”; it only has “powers”, which are granted to it by the people. And since “government” is made up of nothing more than its employees (whose pay does not come from generated profit, but from forced taxes), those employees do not have the same rights as private sector ones. Therefore, it would not be a rights violation to rescind a power that was previously granted to them. Does that make sense?

 

[moostraks]

It seems the discussion has veered into a debate over the value of public education. I’d like to get it back on the subject of government unions.

For the moment let’s ignore the issue of whether collective bargaining is ever a “right” (since it isn’t the same as “voluntary association”, it is debatable). The gov doesn’t have “rights”; it only has “powers”, which are granted to it by the people. And since “government” is made up of nothing more than its employees (whose pay does not come from generated profit, but from forced taxes), those employees do not have the same rights as private sector ones. Therefore, it would not be a rights violation to rescind a power that was previously granted to them. Does that make sense?

You synopsis sounds like cliff notes of Limbaugh's program yesterday.Devil's advocate here-I wonder if there are any legal obligations from breech of contract on the part of the government. Are they obligated to deal with the union in negotiations contractually?

 

[FrankRep]

I wonder if there are any legal obligations from breech of contract on the part of the government. Are they obligated to deal with the union in negotiations contractually?

The Governor is working on the New Budget right now. Expired Contracts will not be included in the New Budget.

 

[moostraks]

The Governor is working on the New Budget right now. Expired Contracts will not be included in the New Budget.

So that would mean there is no longer a contract of employment? If so and the union wants to push their weight around their only shot would seem to be accept termination in mass and let the government hire for all the positions in question. Probably gonna gum up the works if they do that at many levels and one of the considerations why primary enforcers will get preferential treatment (police and fire/rescue). Could also be interesting in terms of unemployment numbers and cost to the state from that angle because they would be eligible, right?

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

So that would mean there is no longer a contract of employment? If so and the union wants to push their weight around their only shot would seem to be accept termination in mass and let the government hire for all the positions in question. Probably gonna gum up the works if they do that at many levels and one of the considerations why primary enforcers will get preferential treatment (police and fire/rescue). Could also be interesting in terms of unemployment numbers and cost to the state from that angle because they would be eligible, right?

Gesus, they are hallucinating...

Appears the government Unions are attacking FRONT PAGE SPLASH: http://www.afscme.org/splash/

 

[idirtify]

You synopsis sounds like cliff notes of Limbaugh's program yesterday.Devil's advocate here-I wonder if there are any legal obligations from breech of contract on the part of the government. Are they obligated to deal with the union in negotiations contractually?

Gosh I might have to start listening to Limbaugh. It sounds like he’s coming around. Speaking of “coming around”, I vote we don’t hold it against anyone for doing that even if it’s not genuine and only a result of following the trend (because I suspect that’s how new paradigms take hold; where it doesn’t matter if most of the new converts are just followers/sheep because the sheep are people/votes too) – no matter their abhorrent history. So how about it? Do you think that if this individual liberty thing actually keeps growing that there will be a general amnesty attitude for former statists?

Anyway, back to the topic. So since you said I sound like Limbaugh, I have no choice but to ask if you are disagreeing with my comments. I don’t think you are, but considering your Limbaugh comment…

Regarding your excellent question about contractual obligations, I simply don’t know when it comes to 1) a government 2) that is broke. I’m tempted to compare the situation to a bankrupt business that is relieved of all its former financial obligations.

 

[Matt Collins]

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[payme_rick]

very good discussion...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I view this as the employer changing its policy... if you do not like it, leave...