A world without work is coming – it could be utopia or it could be hell

[Jim Casey]

Smart money is on hell

Given the choice between Elysium with robots or Oblivion with robots, I would assert a third position: Imperium with robots.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Any examples to contradict me? I sincerely welcome and invite any devastating, brilliant, halfway decent, or even mildly interesting attempt to show me why any of the things I think, are things not true. And "completely not true" - this should be a piece of cake for you! You should be brimming with examples, just off the top of your head, eh!

Come on , Pierz! You're such an expert in history -- this is your chance to show off! And teach us all a thing or two in the process! And plus I do have intellectual curiosity and am more than willing to entertain any new ideas you bring me. What's your hesitancy? Why drop out when you were just getting started?

 

[Seraphim]

No matter how much production automation brings the need for human labor and ingenuity is boundless. Don't be duped into thinking otherwise.

 

[jllundqu]

No matter how much production automation brings the need for human labor and ingenuity is boundless. Don't be duped into thinking otherwise.

No one is being duped. But one would have to be pretty ignorant not to see what the immediate future holds. At some point, ALL transportation (land, sea, and air) will be automated... this will include shipping, cargo, passenger etc... Most manufacturing globally will be done with cheap automation with only a handful of human overseers. Menial jobs like most office jobs, transcription, secretarial, will be advanced AI.

We may never see 100% AI/automation... but we will damn sure see 50%, 60%, 75%. What then? What will humanity do when 50% of the population is not 'needed'. The idea of a universal basic income is growing many backers in the Kurzweillian "Singularity" circles as well as in academia.

Ignoring it as if it isn't going to happen is just putting blinders on instead of looking for solutions.

 

[Seraphim]

No one is being duped. But one would have to be pretty ignorant not to see what the immediate future holds. At some point, ALL transportation (land, sea, and air) will be automated... this will include shipping, cargo, passenger etc... Most manufacturing globally will be done with cheap automation with only a handful of human overseers. Menial jobs like most office jobs, transcription, secretarial, will be advanced AI.

We may never see 100% AI/automation... but we will damn sure see 50%, 60%, 75%. What then? What will humanity do when 50% of the population is not 'needed'. The idea of a universal basic income is growing many backers in the Kurzweillian "Singularity" circles as well as in academia.

Ignoring it as if it isn't going to happen is just putting blinders on instead of looking for solutions.

I view a lot of the factors you noted as reasons to be against government intervention in the market.

The market has room for every human being in the world if the government doesnt tax and regulate them into oblivion.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I view a lot of the factors you noted as reasons to be against government intervention in the market.

The market has room for every human being in the world if the government doesnt tax and regulate them into oblivion.

The market is the driving force behind this, as labor is one of the most expensive costs of production.

 

[Seraphim]

The market is the driving force behind this, as labor is one of the most expensive costs of production.

It also takes an engineer to design the lines (usually many engineers). It takes manufacturing facilities to be built and maintained...all of the products made need to be inspected for safety and packaged for shipping.

We as humans have ALWAYS used our ingenuity to create and build ways to REDUCE labor demand for shit that we don't want to do or do too slowly. Once we do that, we find ways to build more stuff.

It allows us to have more time to use our MINDS to build more stuff that will actually build even more stuff for us as long as the electricity is on. Keeping the electricity on has a whole shit load of other jobs for people to make sure the stuff building machines can keep pumping out more stuff.

 

[AuH20]

Without the struggle, human beings will be no longer human beings. I'm starting to slowly gravitate towards Anarcho-primitivism because I don't like the destination.

 

[CaptUSA]

The market is the driving force behind this, as labor is one of the most expensive costs of production.

The market is the saving grace, AF. I mean, man could be lying down idly being fed bon bons, watching monster bus demolition derbies while getting our dicks sucked and we'd still want more. There is NEVER and will NEVER BE an end to our wants. The market will ALWAYS demand new things. And someone will find a way to provide it.

 

[AuH20]

Depressing and dreary.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/economic-study-suggests-were-heading-for-a-blade-runne-1524219449

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Come on , Pierz! You're such an expert in history -- this is your chance to show off! And teach us all a thing or two in the process! And plus I do have intellectual curiosity and am more than willing to entertain any new ideas you bring me. What's your hesitancy? Why drop out when you were just getting started?

Oh [MENTION=33507]PierzStyx[/MENTION], where are you? Any response?

 

[Danke]

Oh [MENTION=33507]PierzStyx[/MENTION], where are you? Any response?

If you want a true expert on history, consult Ender, he has taken the Red Pill and is outside the matrix, plus he has a very high IQ.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Without the struggle, human beings will be no longer human beings. I'm starting to slowly gravitate towards Anarcho-primitivism because I don't like the destination.

What is anarcho-primitism?

I imagine a survivalist retreat with nightly Treatise reads around the campfire! ;D

 

[AuH20]

What is anarcho-primitism?

I imagine a survivalist retreat with nightly Treatise reads around the campfire! ;D

A rejection of modern technology with a focus on animal husbandry and agricultural pursuits. It's not that technology is bad from a utilitarian sense, but it's highly corrupting. I don't think humans as a whole have ever been so depressed as they are today, despite having so many material benefits.

 

[Anti Federalist]

A rejection of modern technology with a focus on animal husbandry and agricultural pursuits. It's not that technology is bad from a utilitarian sense, but it's highly corrupting. I don't think humans as a whole have ever been so depressed as they are today, despite having so many material benefits.

They sure seem to have had a lot of the spirit beaten out of them.

Docile and compliant.

 

[PierzStyx]

Seriously, you make it hard for people to take you, well, seriously, by not learning the basic (really basic!) communication protocols of the medium you're attempting to communicate in.

Whatever excuse for ignorance floats your boat.

Don't make me give you a condescending tutorial. Even though you seem to have lately decided you now disagree with me on everything, I still like you too much for that.

Lately you've decided to base your entire arguments on trash history and anti-liberty philosophies.

Yes, Pierz, those are the ones I mean! Imagine that. That's why I typed their names.

Well, you mentioned some of them. Then you entirely missed the point. Sure there is no Sumeria, but that hardly proves your point. The places surrounding the cradles of civilization are still there as at least regional powers. Some, like India and China are world powers.


Thank you for the anti-Christianity infomercial. Can't let any opp pass for one of those, now can we?

Just the facts, sorry. Christianity whored itself off to the European states and became another tool of control and oppression. Of course you might have a better time if you divorced Christianity from the corruption of Statism, but most Christians seem perfectly happy with that corruption.

India was ruled by a whole succession of foreigners. And they did not particularly care. For a while there every two-bit conquestor in the region and those surrounding easily took and ruled India for a while. Oh, no, no, no, only northern India you say? Oh, you mean the only part anyone cared about? So unless you go bother the Tamils it doesn't count? Well, any excuse to tell yourself that I'm wrong, I suppose.

Let me ask you something. If China conquers Canada, does that mean that America has been conquered? no? Why? Because they aren't the same people? Same thing with India. It is an entire subcontinent full of a variety of small and large kingdoms. Just because you conquer the Indus Valley doesn't mean you rule Southern India. Not even the Mughals, who I assume you refer to as the secession of foreigners (an untrue statement, almost all the Mughal emperors were born in India) never conquered Southern India and their hold over some of the mountainous regions was pro forma at best.

Example to the contrary then? I'm always willing -- and hopeful! -- to be challenged competently. And I always will re-think and change my views to be in accordance with the facts and the truth.

All over the place. Greece is still around. Going through its, what third or fourth collapse? France has collapsed multiple times in the last 100 years. China collapsed into the Warring States period, emerged as one of the most powerful nations on the planet, collapsed under the Qing, and are now once again one of the most powerful countries on the Earth. India collapsed and was conquered by the British. Today it is one of the most influential countries in the world. Russia collapsed at least three times in the 20th century alone. And it is a world superpower today. Just to name a few. This idea that you get "one collapse" is such a simplistic and narrow view of history it is totally out of touch with reality.

Finally, your halfwit attempt at humor and condescension demonstrates your inability to actually argue your points. You almost certainly have some stupid "zinger" that you think will drive your point home. And it is almost certain to be disappointing and weak. The amount of bravado is almost always as correspondingly great as the actual evidence is weak. So if you've got some point to make, or some actual, tangible argument to make other than your repeated juvenalia, please do so and stop wasting everyone's time.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I'm all about substance, Pierz! Once there's substance, chances are I'll just ignore all the rest (insults, etc.). Exhibit A:

All over the place. Greece is still around. Going through its, what third or fourth collapse?

Let us recall my statement you are trying to refute by this counter-example:

"You only get to collapse once. You only get to have one brilliant, creative, disruptive civ."

Now, in what way is current-day Greece "brilliant, creative, and disruptive"?

France has collapsed multiple times in the last 100 years.

How so? This statement makes it clear that what you are calling a "collapse" and what I am calling a collapse are totally different things! So, what are you considering "collapse"? And would you be interested to know how I am defining it?

 

[mtr1979]

Where I live the local Kmart is closing and it made me think about what the future will be like. We are a nation of retail workers yet major retail chains are closing down. While doing some internet research I came across the term "jobless future." I then found a podcast called Review the Future. In the episode I listened to author Martin Ford talked about his book Rise of the Robots: Technology and the Threat of a Jobless Future.
http://reviewthefuture.com/?p=457