Will Ron Paul reform the Uniform Military Justice Code?

[dude58677]

I'm not in the military but I am empathetic to soldiers who want to voluntary leave Iraq. Is Ron Paul going to let soldiers quit the military?

 

[American]

I think they shold be able to say its an unconstitutional war, and leave. I dont know about changing MJC though.

 

[sbradbury]

That would be a terrible idea.

 

[dude58677]

That would be a terrible idea.

Firemen and cops are allowed to quit their service. You either believe in freedom or you don't.

 

[skiingff]

Bad idea.

-PFC Brandon Lloyd ARNG VA

 

[jumpyg1258]

Psst... Its the UCMJ uniform code of military justice.

<-- air force vet just like ron! =)

And he will change it but not the way you state. If he keeps his word and gets rid of Dont ask, Dont tell, then he will change it to something along the lines of "behavior thats disruptive"

 

[dude58677]

Bad idea.

-PFC Brandon Lloyd ARNG VA

Will you at least elaborate on why it is a bad idea?

 

[jumpyg1258]

Will you at least elaborate on why it is a bad idea?

Cause the first sign of trouble in regards to anything, they will quit.

 

[skiingff]

Will you at least elaborate on why it is a bad idea?

Because we shouldn't be used as pawns in a game of chess, but also there is a need for a unified and disciplined military to fight for our defense in a TRUE time of need.

I'm not justifying what we're being used for in Iraq (eg street cops), I'm saying shit would really hit the fan fast in a military unit without cohesion and discipline where everyone could just say, "times are getting tough! I'm out, peace!"

 

[jumpyg1258]

The ironic thing about serving in the military is that your job is to defend the constitution of the united states but while serving you do not get to have those same liberties your fighting for. You can kiss your right to free speech goodbye! =P

 

[dude58677]

How is it a bad idea? It will boost morale and keep the government in check. If a war is worth fighting then soliders are going to fight it and won't leave but if it is a immoral war they will leave.

 

[dude58677]

The ironic thing about serving in the military is that your job is to defend the constitution of the united states but while serving you do not get to have those same liberties your fighting for. You can kiss your right to free speech goodbye! =P

One of my thoughts on this issue. This is one reason I refuse to join the military.

 

[ctb619]

This would lead to all kinds of discipline problems....people would be leaving for any number of reasons when things got difficult. I would bet that a good number of our troops in the Revolutionary War would have left the service if there were no consequences for doing so (Valley Forge).

 

[dude58677]

This would lead to all kinds of discipline problems....people would be leaving for any number of reasons when things got difficult. I would bet that a good number of our troops in the Revolutionary War would have left the service if there were no consequences for doing so (Valley Forge).

I refuse to join the military because you can't quit. There are soldiers who signed up for the military because they wanted to hunt down Osama but instead got shipped to Iraq or Europe.

The arugment you are using, were arguments used for conscription that no one would join the military at all, but this isn't the case.

 

[ctb619]

I refuse to join the military because you can't quit. There are soldiers who signed up for the military because they wanted to hunt down Osama but instead got shipped to Iraq or Europe.

The arugment you are using were arguments used against conscription that no one would join the military at all, but this isn't the case.

I'm in the Army, I guarantee you that discipline would suffer tremendously if the UCMJ were modified as you are suggesting.

 

[skiingff]

This would lead to all kinds of discipline problems....people would be leaving for any number of reasons when things got difficult. I would bet that a good number of our troops in the Revolutionary War would have left the service if there were no consequences for doing so (Valley Forge).

x2

I think you're looking too deep into it. This is the MILITARY, not just any job. We go all around the world, what is the military s'posed to do fly soldiers 1 x 1 back from Iraq, South Korea, Afghanistan, etc every time things get tough and they want to QUIT? How about each soldier has a personal airplane and they just leave when they want?

Detrimental to unit cohesion, dicipline issues, etc. are very good reasons. WAR is different than PEACE. There are different sets of rules to play by, and the MILITARY is an institution of WAR, that's just how it is.

 

[dude58677]

I'm in the Army, I guarantee you that discipline would suffer tremendously if the UCMJ were modified as you are suggesting.

Not being allowed to quit the military is what leads to standing armies. If soldiers were allowed to quit, the government would be forced to focus on Osama bin Laden and not be in Iraq. They would be forced to recruit only for wars that are necessary.

There are soldiers who signed up to fight in Afghanistan and instead are in Iraq.

 

[dude58677]

x2

I think you're looking too deep into it. This is the MILITARY, not just any job. We go all around the world, what is the military s'posed to do fly soldiers 1 x 1 back from Iraq, South Korea, Afghanistan, etc every time things get tough and they want to QUIT? How about each soldier has a personal airplane and they just leave when they want?

Detrimental to unit cohesion, dicipline issues, etc. are very good reasons. WAR is different than PEACE. There are different sets of rules to play by, and the MILITARY is an institution of WAR, that's just how it is.

They will NOT quit if THERE IS A JUST CAUSE. It's like a citizen milita overseas.

 

[dude58677]

x2

I think you're looking too deep into it. This is the MILITARY, not just any job. We go all around the world, what is the military s'posed to do fly soldiers 1 x 1 back from Iraq, South Korea, Afghanistan, etc every time things get tough and they want to QUIT? How about each soldier has a personal airplane and they just leave when they want?

Detrimental to unit cohesion, dicipline issues, etc. are very good reasons. WAR is different than PEACE. There are different sets of rules to play by, and the MILITARY is an institution of WAR, that's just how it is.

But it is like a regular job like a cop, there are soldiers in over 160 countries. Why can't these soldiers be allowed to quit?

 

[ctb619]

If we sent 50,000 troops to Afghanistan for a few years and gave them the discretion to quit and go home when it suited them, we'd have a big problem. Thousands would leave, it would affect unit morale, operational readiness, and our ability to accomplish the mission.

I see where you're going with the argument, and I can sympathize with it, but I just don't think it is practical for an army that is sent abroad to carry out our foreign policy objectives.