Foreign Policy: Why my dad will not vote for Ron Paul.

Guys, parents don't like to be schooled by their kids. It makes them feel stupid, as they are supposed to be all wise and knowing. This is why we all have such problems with our parents. The same goes with family. We need to reach beyond to friends, neighbors, etc.
 
jmdrake said:
Hey, I feel you. I recently got my mom to pledge to vote for Ron Paul and she voted for Obama last time. (She actually liked Ron Paul's foreign policy all along. It's the economics I had to sell).

Okay, help us out here. The OP question is too general. On all of the wars that we are currently fighting (Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya etc) is there any war he thinks we shouldn't be fighting? Let's take the war in Libya. Right now we are fighting on the side of Al Qaeda. Does he agree with that? Does he think we should be on the side of the tyrant Khaddafi? Or does he think we should just have stayed out? If you can get him to see the wisdom of staying out of that war, maybe he can see the wisdom of staying out of other wars.
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He believes Khaddafi is a tyrant and that he needs to go, I think his only problem with the Libyan war is that congress didn't declare war. He believes the whole war on terror is legit. Afghanistan-he says if we don't grow the opium then the terrorists will. For the most part he is still believing is the false, left-right paradigm that has been shoved down our throats for generations and to this day still defends pretty much everything Bush the younger did while in office. At this time in history it is my belief that a vote for anyone not named Ron Paul, is a vote for your own enslavement as all other candidates are beholden to foriegn interests, and my dad just can't seem to accept that.
 
Daniel, my dad has been making inroads lately, but he is pretty much the same way as your dad. I would focus my efforts elsewhere. You may want to try to get your dad to read some of RP's books since they are eloquent and sort of build up the evidence as to why our foreign and domestic policies are so flawed.

Sorry I couldn't help more, but I definitely understand the talking-to-a-brick-wall kind of feeling.
 
jmdrake said:
1st Welcome to the forum.

2nd Ask you dad if he truly believes that getting involved in wars is the only way to end them? Ask your dad if he thinks we should have intervened militarily in Northern Ireland for example?

3rd Ask your dad what happened to the predictions that if we pulled out of Vietnam all of Southeast Asia would become communist.
Click to expand...

+rep
 
I recently had the same talk with my folks and the way I explained it is that all we have to do is filter the issues with the constitution and the answer will become apparent. If we want to go to war for any reason, we need to use the constitutional method and let the congress declare war.
 
Thanks for all the replies folks, lots of good points there and it's a bit comforting that i'm not alone in my frustration.
 
China has a devastating civil war coming long before they can even pose a ficticious threat to the United States. Imho.
 
The problem is that your dad's position is not unrealistic...one only has to look at Hitler's domination of Europe to see that the English and the French appeased Hitler and Hitler didn't listen to them. He took more and more land...so your dad had a point of reference. The problem is that, what scenario are plausible? Ask your father what country with an army, navy, and air force would be able to start invading and taking over countries?? Your dad seems to have Ron's positions completely wrong. I would start by educating him on Ron's positions first...walk him through it all...and then move on...I haven't been able to completely turn someone around to Ron when they support a candidate already...the key is to reach NEW people.
 
The US Military is and Will Continue to be the STRONGEST FORCE on the Planet.
We have all but 2 things going against us.
#1 The Russians have more Subs (And Better Subs soon)
#2 The Chinese Have Massive Numbers

The US Military will continue to LEAD the way in War, we are good at it, very good at it I may add.
 
Daniel 9 5 said:
My dad's main problem with Ron Paul, is that he thinks RP will let wars(between other nations) go on and on until the world is conquered and then it will be USA vs. the world in a war.

Can anyone clarify this for me or perhaps point me in the proper direction as to find out where RP stands on this hypothetical scenario?

I am all for peace, and i'm fully aware of our "leaders" duplicity in bringing the USA into wars throughout our history. However, sometimes evil must simply be stopped. If some megalamaniacal dictator started going through the world killing and enslaving people, is there a point that President Paul will say "enough!" and militarily intervene on behalf of the people being killed and enslaved? Or will RP say "it's got nothing to do with our national defense?

Also, does anyone know where I can find a RP shirt that says "Legalize Freedom" or "Legalize the Constitution"?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Please let me know your thoughts after reading the following :


(1) Why did Al-Qaeda attack the US ?


http://forum.isi.org/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=5270060552&f=9310035552&m=4280031492&r=3441026226#3441026226



(2) Could the US government have prevented the attacks on 9/11/01 on a drastically reduced yearly military budget of $100 billion a year ?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...-01-have-been-prevented&p=3421133#post3421133



(3) A militarily weak US government could have saved trillions of hard earned taxpayer dollars

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...ons-of-taxpayer-dollars&p=3438793#post3438793



(4) Would a militarily weak US government have been a blessing to the world ? :

http://forum.isi.org/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=5270060552&f=9310035552&m=4280031492&r=4301034126#4301034126


(5) How to save $800 billion a year from the military budget and balance the budget in the sixth year :

http://forum.isi.org/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=5270060552&f=9310035552&m=4280031492&r=4461034126#4461034126
 
Daniel 9 5 said:
My dad's main problem with Ron Paul, is that he thinks RP will let wars(between other nations) go on and on until the world is conquered and then it will be USA vs. the world in a war.

Can anyone clarify this for me or perhaps point me in the proper direction as to find out where RP stands on this hypothetical scenario?

I am all for peace, and i'm fully aware of our "leaders" duplicity in bringing the USA into wars throughout our history. However, sometimes evil must simply be stopped. If some megalamaniacal dictator started going through the world killing and enslaving people, is there a point that President Paul will say "enough!" and militarily intervene on behalf of the people being killed and enslaved? Or will RP say "it's got nothing to do with our national defense?

Also, does anyone know where I can find a RP shirt that says "Legalize Freedom" or "Legalize the Constitution"?

Thanks
Click to expand...

Without the US government's military interventions, the world will be just as how it was before the US came into existence

and that is countries would go to war with one another but no country will have a world wide monopoly on power due to the fact that insurgencies will always exist to overthrow a foreign dictatorship.

I hope your dad realizes that it is the US government's short sighted foreign policies that resulted in WW2, the Cold War and the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

Please read my previous post for clarification, thanks
 
Sjmfury said:
The US Military is and Will Continue to be the STRONGEST FORCE on the Planet.
We have all but 2 things going against us.
#1 The Russians have more Subs (And Better Subs soon)
#2 The Chinese Have Massive Numbers

The US Military will continue to LEAD the way in War, we are good at it, very good at it I may add.
Click to expand...

Yeah the U.S. leading has lead to some awesome results around the world :rolleyes:
 
Daniel 9 5 said:
He believes Khaddafi is a tyrant and that he needs to go, I think his only problem with the Libyan war is that congress didn't declare war. He believes the whole war on terror is legit. Afghanistan-he says if we don't grow the opium then the terrorists will.
Click to expand...

Jesus.

There is nothing I can say to that, that would not come off sounding harsh.

Might be best just to move on, family can be some of the hardest people to sway.

Familiarity breeds contempt.
 
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If we did not waste our resources and warriors (and what Nietzche called our "Quantum of Reason", on illegal wars and grand politics we would be ready for the next big show when it came. Those who bemoan the size of China's army must keep in mind that when it happens, we will find India on our side... and then the numbers are equal. However, they (Chinese) possess a distinct advantage in manufacturing capabilities. It bears remembering, any WW2 buff knows,the primary reason the Allies beat the Axis was our ability exponentially outproduce them. This script has now been flipped... Ahhhh, the machinations of the idle mind. They and us have nukes... next big show will likely end in a cratered and smouldering earth. Orwell's 1984 gives a superb explanation of modern warfare.

As far as the Russians are concerned, I have faith that the Germans will clean their clocks... again. Whatever happens lets hope the French are on the other side lol.
 
Daniel 9 5 said:
My dad's main problem with Ron Paul, is that he thinks RP will let wars(between other nations) go on and on until the world is conquered and then it will be USA vs. the world in a war.

Can anyone clarify this for me or perhaps point me in the proper direction as to find out where RP stands on this hypothetical scenario?

I am all for peace, and i'm fully aware of our "leaders" duplicity in bringing the USA into wars throughout our history. However, sometimes evil must simply be stopped. If some megalamaniacal dictator started going through the world killing and enslaving people, is there a point that President Paul will say "enough!" and militarily intervene on behalf of the people being killed and enslaved? Or will RP say "it's got nothing to do with our national defense?

Also, does anyone know where I can find a RP shirt that says "Legalize Freedom" or "Legalize the Constitution"?

Thanks
Click to expand...
Ask your dad if he would go around his neighborhood with a shotgun intervening with other peoples marital problems(such as shouting). Would his actions make him safer ? Of course its always easier to call the cops to intervene which would still be intervention.....in this case your dad would advocate sending someone elses kids overseas to entangle /bully and make someone elses business their own.
 
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We can't financially afford to intervene militarily in every conflict/country in the world. There will always be suppressive dictators, and will always be wars fought throughout the world, with or without our intervention. When we do get involved, we end up causing more hatred than good. One can look back to 1953 when our CIA covertly installed the Shah in Iran because we "feared" their democracy would become aligned with the Soviet Union and to gain control of their oil. We ended up installing a suppressive government, but we got an ally and we got our oil. This suppressive government created hatred by the Iranians against Americans and they ended up overthrowing this government. Then we got in co-hoots with Iraq, gave them WMDs and that's when the Iraq-Iran war began. Then Iraq invaded Kuwait and we went against Iraq and set up military bases in Saudia Arabia. At this time, the whole middle east is pissed at us and the people of Saudia Arabia wanted us out of their holy land. This planted the seed for 9/11... The majority of hijackers were from Saudia Arabia. Now since Osama was in Afghanistan we go there and set up military bases.... etc, etc, etc. This is the concept Ron Paul and many historians/scholars/CIA agents consider "blowback" which is a very real thing. The root cause of all the hatred we created was because of our military intervention overseas, installing suppressive dictators, and occupying their land which they consider holy. We would be pissed if they did this to us.

It is Intervention that has caused us harm.... not the fact that there are bad people in the world and they hate us because we are Christians and free.
 
My dad IS going to support and vote for Paul but feels the same way. There is absolutely no way to change thoughts like these in my experience. Ever wondered why they call Ron Paul and others Isolationist? Some people seriously see the world as being "evil" and the United States as the great police man of the world. There is no logic there it's pure emotion. My father agrees with no wars, but some how some way can come up with a 100 reasons we need to be engaged in them. It's seriously a super frustrating topic once brought up. He usually sounds like this; "I know Libya is a bad idea but Ghadaffi was a dictator and bombed his own people", I respond with "700,000 Iraqis didn't disappear at the hands of Saddam" and try to make the point that wars are always based upon false intelligence and generally follow "GOD" gold, oil, drugs. Good luck man. My advice would be to get him from another point.
 
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