Why I will never vote for most Republicans, and will occasionally vote for Democrats

Ummm, what wiki article are you looking at?

Your link has this graphic front and center.


Fale.

The US has an at-birth rate of 1.05 male:female ratio. The numbers of men shift as they move or die due to accidents and age deterioration. In other words, there are more men who have lived in the US than women. If you take the US census data (2010) as total value, you would conclude that there are more women who have lived in the US, but that would be an erroneous, snap-shot conclusion.

Illustration by comparison: If ten fish are born male every year and eight fish are born female every year, and five male fish die every year while two female fish die every year...

Year 1) 10m 8f -- 5m 6f (Average of more males alive)
Year 2) 15m 14f -- 10m 12f
Year 3) 20m 20f -- 15m 18f (More women alive)
Year 4) 25m 26f -- 20m 24f
Year 5) 30m 32f -- 25m 30f

But (Year 1-5) x 10 = 50 males who have lived: (Year 1-5) x 8 = 40 females who lived. This rate will never change as long as the birth rate does not change.

In your post, you said that there are more women than men in the US. A separate one of your points was that women tend to live longer. If you meant to say that there are more women still alive than men in the US, why would you make those separate points? Or was this just an oversight on your part?
 
Last edited:
Last edited:
It does seem to be, though I'm not sure what she means by "liberal' - or that she even has a meaning in mind.

It is true that I'm a liberal, though. More classical than social, but certainly some social.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_liberalism
Nothing wrong with classical liberalism. I'd be interested in hearing your position on property rights and private discrimination.
 
Nothing wrong with classical liberalism. I'd be interested in hearing your position on property rights and private discrimination.

I don't have a full theory of government, but my leanings on property are that personal property should be regarded as private property - which should be outside of governmental jurisdiction except in cases where there is an observable inclination toward harm to others (e.g. a guy who has shot someone in the last three years in a case that was not self-defense shouldn't have access to an automatic weapon).

I'm also in favor of land as private property, but believe that there should be areas of every country where there is communal land that operates as personal property and not private property (e.g. open-access land that people can occupy, and which is regarded as their private property only when occupied).

Cases of discrimination in private operations are a complex subject. My view is that small operations (less than 30 full-time employees or less than 60 total employees) should not be subject to anti-discrimination law, as such small operations are more akin to helping with one's personal property than they are to public enterprise. In all other cases, I'm currently in favor of anti-discrimination laws in the cases of hiring and firing (equal consideration/access), as judged by ratios of employee participation (adverse impact being less than 30% total minority hires) because operations of increasing size increasingly utilize public resources. In cases of medium-sized operations of roughly 300 employees, I'm in favor of anti-discrimination laws with regard to equal compensation for equal performance, and so on.

I believe that all public operations should be subject to all anti-discrimination laws, in order to help prevent a caste structure or crony governmentalism.

I do make a key exception for all cases: If a local government (township level) votes by 2/3 to suspend all anti-discrimination law or property law, it may adopt a special legal status allowing it to do so - but all past situations must be maintained as grandfathered cases.
 
Can you say the same, straight-faced, with regard to every election? Federal, state, regional, and local?

Why? It all ends in the same result... Certainly, you have an honest election here and there; but it is the Big Boys in the DNC and GOP that rape the results . You see that everyday.. Not one of us, or we collectively; could possibly provide the GOP and DNC crime syndicates the money they wish personally, to provide for an honest election.

And their Federally funded minions, such as Moveon.org... I actually loved that organization and was a member for years; bashing George Bush. Then Osama bin Obama was elected, and started killing innocent women and children in Iraq, Afghanistan ... totally out of sinch with his campaign speeches (cause the guy doesn't know where he is half the time) .... Osama Obama began allowing the United States Federal Government aka Fannie Mae to steal 10 to 12 million homes in the United States illegally ... and sell the stolen homes to foreign entities in exchange for free citizenship. Moveon.org disappeared... so now I know they were just a plant, even before Obama announced he was running ... Moveon.org knew this fake, idiot was going to be President, even before we did..

But where has the GOP been? They are right there with the DNC.... If you have any hope there is a difference between the GOP and the DNC ... I'm sad for you ...

GOP hates Paul, because Paul won't fall in line with the crime syndicate, known as Congress and the Executive Branch. If any people should be in prison right now, it is 90% of the Congress and Executive Branch .......... both democrats and republicans.
 
If civil rights are your main issue, then you are really confused.

No one has a right to a state issued marriage license. People do have the right to enter into any kind of private contract to sort out their affairs, but that isn't the issue since people can do that now. The solution is to eliminate state marriage licenses since that isn't a proper function of government anyway, not having the federal government impose a definition of marriage that it sees fit.

What is one of the most basic rights though is ones right to their property, which if you support the various social programs you must have no problem violating that right. The government has no right to seize property from people to fund anything.

As for the two major parties, none of them have any regard for our rights. The Democrats have no qualms about stealing via taxation or inflation to fund their massive government programs and wars of conquest. Republicans have no qualms about stealing via taxation or inflation to fund their wars of conquest or the police state. They are both equally despicable at all levels (with surely a few rare exceptions).
 
If civil rights are your main issue, then you are really confused.

No one has a right to a state issued marriage license. People do have the right to enter into any kind of private contract to sort out their affairs, but that isn't the issue since people can do that now. The solution is to eliminate state marriage licenses since that isn't a proper function of government anyway, not having the federal government impose a definition of marriage that it sees fit.

What is one of the most basic rights though is ones right to their property, which if you support the various social programs you must have no problem violating that right. The government has no right to seize property from people to fund anything.

As for the two major parties, none of them have any regard for our rights. The Democrats have no qualms about stealing via taxation or inflation to fund their massive government programs and wars of conquest. Republicans have no qualms about stealing via taxation or inflation to fund their wars of conquest or the police state. They are both equally despicable at all levels (with surely a few rare exceptions).

Civil marriage (governmental license) is a different thing from marriage as performed in religious ceremonies. It is a contractual status that affords people cross-state legal rights related to spouses and children (including child support, health plan options, etc.).

I support a view of government as a contract between its constituents. If someone doesn't want to be part of that that contract, they should be able to move to an area without a government. For that reason, I support the idea that every state should have an autonomous/voluntary zone with minimal state laws (e.g. laws on right to life, to be enforced when a party brings a legal case to the state).


Stop putting words in my mouth.
 
Last edited:
A government is not a contract between its constituents. It is an armed group of thugs stealing from one group to enjoy the spoils among themselves or share with their friends. Even the social programs you hold dear are only there to appease the sheep and keep them dependent while the political class enjoys the riches being siphoned away from the rest of the people via the Fed printing press.

The idea that someone can move to a minimal government camp if they don't want to participate in the "contract" is ridiculous. What if they don't want to go? Will you steal their land and property and force them into the camp? Or into a government cage? Is that respecting their civil rights?
 
A government is not a contract between its constituents. It is an armed group of thugs stealing from one group to enjoy the spoils among themselves or share with their friends. Even the social programs you hold dear are only there to appease the sheep and keep them dependent while the political class enjoys the riches being siphoned away from the rest of the people via the Fed printing press.

The idea that someone can move to a minimal government camp if they don't want to participate in the "contract" is ridiculous. What if they don't want to go? Will you steal their land and property and force them into the camp? Or into a government cage? Is that respecting their civil rights?

It astounds me that people who have such a twisted mindframe exist. Nothing I said in any way indicated a "governmetal camp".

Your paranoid comments aren't welcome in this thread.
 
It astounds me that people who have such a twisted mindframe exist. Nothing I said in any way indicated a "governmetal camp".

Your paranoid comments aren't welcome in this thread.

I don't see the difference between a "zone" and a "camp". Regardless, I see you can not defend your point of view when you are shown who the real violators of civil rights are.
 
TA government is not a contract between its constituents. It is an armed group of thugs stealing from one group to enjoy the spoils among themselves or share with their friends. Even the social programs you hold dear are only there to appease the sheep and keep them dependent while the political class enjoys the riches being siphoned away from the rest of the people via the Fed printing press


This, my friend, is very truthful ... It plays out every day.
 
Last edited:
It is true that I'm a liberal, though. More classical than social, but certainly some social.

Social-liberalism has in effect nothing in common with classical liberalism. Therefore, saying you are a classical liberal with "some social" is like saying you are a "little knocked up". The latter, present in even a sub-clinical dosage, pollutes and negates the former in toto. Let us take that splendid Wikipedia article you cited:


The third paragraph causes the article to pretty well assassinate the concept of social-liberalism, however unintentionally, where it states:

[Social-liberalism] affirms the following principles: human rights, free and fair elections and multiparty democracy, social justice, tolerance, social market economy, free trade, environmental sustainability and a strong sense of international solidarity.[SUP][10][/SUP]

This sentence is so fraught with contradiction as to set the clear and capable mind at odds with itself in making the decision where to begin the demolition. But let us move forward in but a most cursory manner and we will discover a few points that in themselves offer sufficiency to destroy the credibility of social-liberalism and demonstrate why one cannot be that as well as a classical-liberal, all in the spirit of setting you straight that you may err no more from this point onward.

Firstly, the notions of "social justice" and "human rights" are mutually exclusive. You cannot have one with the other - the relationship is what we call in the sciences "exclusive or", which is to say, one or the other ONLY. If one defends human rights, and here we are speaking of properly defined rights and not the airy-fairy bullshit the so-called "social-liberal" believes the term to mean, there is no possibility to impose the conditions of "social justice" upon people as those conditions are inherently violent to the rights of the individual. One trivial yet sufficient example in proof of this is the notion of redistribution of wealth where the fruits of one's labors are forcibly expropriated and given to those "less fortunate". This is the core pillar of the concept of "social justice" and it is at diametric odds with that of human rights, prima facie. QED.


"Social markets", vis-a-vis free markets is a similar relationship. So-called "social-markets" are those based not upon properly derived human rights but rather on the wholly erroneous definition that must be used in order for the structure of the concept of "social-liberalism" to be internally consistent in at least the minimally passable degree. Being so based, social-markets substitute properly derived human freedom with that of arbitrarily defined "social justice". As above, the two cannot exist together and once again we note the utterly and violently catastrophic nature of the failure.

Next, "democracy", a favorite term for the pretty slavery (or not so pretty in the eyes of those who are awake and thinking for themselves) of which the social-liberals and other grossly ignorant, intellectually careless and lazy, or corrupt persons are so fond. As any minimally informed person is aware, actual democracy is nothing better than mob rule. It is, in effect, the utter chaos of the strong subjugating the weak to the superior material will of the "majority". Need I go through the more formal steps of demonstrating how violently this mode of social order dispenses with any notion of human rights? We are at three for three. Social liberalism's creds are already destroyed, but let us put another nail in its coffin just for kicks.

"Free trade", vis-a-vis free markets. Free trade, as currently constituted in law and in practice, is a failed policy the details of which could occupy volumes, so we will skip that here. The name and the reality are at serious odds with one another, the "freedom" being very selectively salted in the favor of one class of persons and most often significantly biased against the rest, this all working in diametric opposition to the notion of free markets and of human rights.

As we can all see, social-liberalism is really a code word denoting a philosophy and practice of extremely large governmental institutions operating in a contextual environment where they despotically control the lives of those who tend to drive toward achievement and excellence in order to "provide" for those who do not. This is all at the same time the preservation of turf while buying the loyalty of the indolent. It is the very pinnacle of tyranny, for it cloaks itself in a mantle of false compassion and moral rectitude that ever so thinly veils the most unimaginably vicious hearts the world has ever known.

If you are indeed a social liberal, you therefore CANNOT be one of the classical variety.

Claro?
 
Last edited:
Social-liberalism has in effect nothing in common with classical liberalism.
If you are indeed a social liberal, you therefore CANNOT be one of the classical variety.

You can either take what I'm saying at face value and ask me what I mean, or you can make assumptions and ignore and disregard me.

Point in case: Social liberalism is not a unified ideology composed of all ideas that anyone who claims to be a social liberal adheres to. I can be a social liberal without, for example, wanting to take money directly from wealthy people to give it to the poor through a debit-card food stamp program, or being for setting up a "minimum living wage" for work done.

Since you don't seem interested in actually discussing my views with me, I'm not going to bother with explaining them to you.
 
You can either take what I'm saying at face value and ask me what I mean, or you can make assumptions and ignore and disregard me.

You have made assertions using specific terms such as "social liberal". Being specific, they have definite meanings or they lose their utility. If you were redefining the terms, onus rested with you to make that clear. Absent this sort of explicit communication to alert the reader of your redefinition of terms, all one can reasonably do is assume that the usage is, for lack of a better way of putting it, "standard". Much more to the point, the very article you cited constructed the term quite explicitly. If you mean to imply here, then, that I should have taken your meaning to be something other than that which you cited, I would have to conclude that someone, whether you or myself, had landed on Planet Bizarro. You supplied the meanings and I responded based on that. Where, precisely, can you point to my error?

Point in case: Social liberalism is not a unified ideology composed of all ideas that anyone who claims to be a social liberal adheres to.

Irrelevant, given the cite you provided, which provided a set of defined elements of the term.

I can be a social liberal without, for example, wanting to take money directly from wealthy people to give it to the poor through a debit-card food stamp program, or being for setting up a "minimum living wage" for work done.

And I can be called a "kitchen sink". Words and terms either have meaning or the are mainly useless. Perhaps your understanding of the fundamental nature of human language is not quite sufficiently perfected such that you have not grasped the crucial importance of semantics. To alter the meanings of words becomes tantamount to speaking to another in a language of which they have no knowledge.

Since you don't seem interested in actually discussing my views with me, I'm not going to bother with explaining them to you.

All I did was respond to what you wrote and I did so rationally, adeptly, and politely. Please do not project your failings onto my response. It does little to help your credibility, no offense intended. But if it is your wish to be upset with me, so be it.
 
You supplied the meanings and I responded based on that. Where, precisely, can you point to my error?

You erred in not reading my original post clearly.

It does seem to be, though I'm not sure what she means by "liberal' - or that she even has a meaning in mind.

It is true that I'm a liberal, though. More classical than social, but certainly some social.

If I'm "more classical than social" and I include "neoliberalism" in my list of references (notably even as an edit after citing three separate references on interpretations of "liberalism"), then I clearly have a non-standard view of the word "liberal".


If your next response is dismissive or heated, I'm not going to respond - it's not worth the conflict.
 
Well, OK, you just want to argue, for argument's sake.

The link you provided, that you used to assert my point as false, i.e. there are more women than men in the US, clearly showed that there are more women than men in the US.

So, you could have said, "yeah, read it wrong, I cede your point".

Instead, you went the obfuscation route, trying to claim that, just because there are more male births, it should follow that there are more males overall.

But that's not the case. Violent death, murder, execution, job related deaths and health issues that affect men in greater numbers skew those numbers throughout the whole population.

Thus leading to there being more women than men.

Enjoy arguing with yourself.

The US has an at-birth rate of 1.05 male:female ratio. The numbers of men shift as they move or die due to accidents and age deterioration. In other words, there are more men who have lived in the US than women. If you take the US census data (2010) as total value, you would conclude that there are more women who have lived in the US, but that would be an erroneous, snap-shot conclusion.

Illustration by comparison: If ten fish are born male every year and eight fish are born female every year, and five male fish die every year while two female fish die every year...

Year 1) 10m 8f -- 5m 6f (Average of more males alive)
Year 2) 15m 14f -- 10m 12f
Year 3) 20m 20f -- 15m 18f (More women alive)
Year 4) 25m 26f -- 20m 24f
Year 5) 30m 32f -- 25m 30f

But (Year 1-5) x 10 = 50 males who have lived: (Year 1-5) x 8 = 40 females who lived. This rate will never change as long as the birth rate does not change.

In your post, you said that there are more women than men in the US. A separate one of your points was that women tend to live longer. If you meant to say that there are more women still alive than men in the US, why would you make those separate points? Or was this just an oversight on your part?
 
Well, OK, you just want to argue, for argument's sake.

The link you provided, that you used to assert my point as false, i.e. there are more women than men in the US, clearly showed that there are more women than men in the US.

So, you could have said, "yeah, read it wrong, I cede your point".

Instead, you went the obfuscation route, trying to claim that, just because there are more male births, it should follow that there are more males overall.

But that's not the case. Violent death, murder, execution, job related deaths and health issues that affect men in greater numbers skew those numbers throughout the whole population.

Thus leading to there being more women than men.

Enjoy arguing with yourself.

You're right. I was sloppy with my numbers because of my expectations given the birth rate. I went back and looked at past census data, and while it shows that there is a generally stable "more males at birth" and "nearly equal males/females to old age" trend, the amount of old-age women still living in the US is significantly larger than the number of newborn males and immigrant males. I had thought that the data presented on the Wiki page were about to-year statistical estimates for life paths (i.e. that women born in 2012 are 3% more likely to live to old age) - not to-year population data (i.e. that the total population of women is 3% greater in 2012 than the total population of men). "CIA estimate" is what threw me.

My overall thought was that if more males are born every year, then the population is roughly equal or favors men as women die and men increasingly live longer - even if women die at later ages. My thought was that for women to be the larger population, there would have to be nearly static birth:death rates that favored women to a significant degree, which I doubted. However, the data show that despite gains in men's health care and longevity, women are more likely to survive medical complications at all ages than are men. This ultimately accounts for the 2012 .97 total actual population figure.

So, again, my bad. I apologize for hastily jumping to a conclusion on point A, instead of doing due diligence as I did on points B and C.
 
I support treating people equally. I do not support making people equal. The latter is the heart of progressive policy.
 
Back
Top