Why Do Christians Think They Are Oppressed?

[PaulConventionWV]

I've never thought there was an ulterior motive for teaching Darwinism, but I'd be interested in hearing some speculation on your (or other's) part. Government took over education long before Darwinism became popular, btw, unless you are referring to the federal government. The feds don't set local curriculum, at least until Bush's "no child left behind" which unfortunately has led to instructors teaching specifically for the test. One of the motivations for NCLB was a backdoor provision to allow Intelligent Design to be taught in "Science" class as an alternative "theory" to Darwinism.

To me, this is just so obvious. The government controls Monsanto, wonder why? The government is taking away our right to habeas corpus, wonder why? Our government is funding the DHS, CIA, FBI, NSA, not to mention the FDA and the banks. It even has its hands in the music business, for God's sake, and you don't think there's any particular reason why they would want to control education and their preferred theory just happens to be Darwinism? It's pretty obvious that this isn't just education, either. It's in the media all the time. How many times has the theory of evolution been questioned in popular media? NEVER, unless they're having a freakshow parade. Evolution is mandatory teaching and you don't think there's any particular reason for that? The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

I'll take a stab at it. It's not really the theory itself, but when it is misapplied to many other fields and aspects of life, and taught as a general principle of how all systems work. What I mean is, when Darwinism is applied to everything, like the study of society, history, culture, politics, or government, etc. There are very broad philosophical implications for that, for example, the idea that society is always progressing and evolving over time. The idea that society itself is evolving denies the possibility that societies can actually backslide at times, or that instead of always becoming more efficient or free over time, freedoms can be lost progressively over time, and in the future. Bureaucracy can become progressively too complex and unwieldy. It isn't always the case that what comes later is necessarily more perfect, more efficient, or better suited to the environment. The tendency to view the state as an artifact of human progress and evolution, as opposed to a relic of the past, or a necessary evil that must be kept in check. The assumption that all change is necessarily positive or inevitable. These are just a few examples.

That's a little more convoluted than what I was thinking. They want to secularize culture, and it is evident all around us that this is happening. A belief in God is a threat to them because people who are devoted to God hold their devotion above the state. When people lose faith in God, they are more susceptible to turning their devotion to the state because then there is no authority above that of the state.

 

[July]

That's a little more convoluted than what I was thinking. They want to secularize culture, and it is evident all around us that this is happening. A belief in God is a threat to them because people who are devoted to God hold their devotion above the state. When people lose faith in God, they are more susceptible to turning their devotion to the state because then there is no authority above that of the state.

I guess my post was more to do with the consequences of viewing everything through a "Darwinist" lens, and less about the motivation of the government in teaching it. I don't think that it shouldn't be taught, but how it is taught matters, because it colors a lot of our views about progress and change....and our drive for interventionism.

 

[fisharmor]

Just a thought, about how some people have said the majority are not really Christian. So I would like to ask, who are YOU to decide whether they are Christian or not? You don't know what is in their hearts.

There's the rub. This country's original white population consisted of an awful lot of people who called themselves "Christian" who were, in fact, documentably, being oppressed - by other people calling themselves "Christian".
We are not one big, happy family.

Take Iraq, for instance. With under 3% of the population even claiming to be Christian, and dwindling daily, it still has the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Chaldean Catholic Church, and the Assyrian Church of the East within its borders.
If any of them were like the others, then they would have banded together long ago. I think it's safe to say that I know more about different denominations of Christians than a majority of nominal Christians do, yet I know only enough to make sense out of the wikipedia pages' writeups on these examples.

Expecting a Bible-belt evangelical living in a town that might also have a straight Roman Catholic church in it to be able to draw distinctions is expecting a lot, IMO.

Christ is on record as saying "I am the Truth". The man who sentenced him to die is on record as responding, "What is truth?"
I don't think it gets clearer than this. The story is that God became man and declared Truth, and that a worldly man with no understanding responded by mocking the whole concept of Truth.

But if you're going to take a stand on something, to the point of literally getting eaten by lions, I think it makes sense to find out whether or not it's the absolute Truth. Thus we have fracturing in Christianity. Thus we have historical examples of nominal Christians not just willing to die for their truth... but also willing to kill.

The people that came here were trying to escape that. They helped usher in a new way - one which called a ceasefire between Christian groups.

Then, almost immediately, came the empire. Steadily, over time, it has been convincing Christians to start worshiping it. And Christians have turned from their Truth and embraced the truth of the state. The state's truth doesn't care what the truth is - unless the truth being spoken offends the state. Then, it doesn't appeal to truth at all... only power.

Are Christians oppressed here, in the US? No. They're cajoled, threatened, indoctrinated, brainwashed, and, if they still refuse to worship at the feet of the eagle... well, if you've attracted that much attention, we'll find some other reason to do away with you. Like I said, truth isn't important to the empire. It doesn't matter why, only that it happens. It's been 20 years since they proved, live on national TV, that they can do anything they want to whomever they want, as long as they spin it properly.

They know we don't get along, and they know how to exploit that. Make a generic cross, and park an eagle next to it. Erect new temples to our fascist overlords, control the funerals of those who die in the service of the eagle... but always refer back to that generic cross. That bland, nondescript, unspecified, vague, meaningless cross.

See? Now we get along. Under the eagle, we have POWER! We destroy nations and build them up again!

Only that's not truth. If you remove the eagle, we don't get along. In fact, we've oppressed each other, and not that long ago.

I don't doubt that Christians are being oppressed by non-Christians elsewhere.
Here, I think the problem is different. The problem here is that Christians take offense to things that ultimately should offend anyone of any religious background (if they would bother to look at the REAL issue, that is), and the only reason they do so is because the eagle is telling them to do it. And the ultimate reason for that is that it turns them against Christ and toward the eagle.

 

[bunklocoempire]

I'll take a stab at it. It's not really the theory itself, but when it is misapplied to many other fields and aspects of life, and taught as a general principle of how all systems work. What I mean is, when Darwinism is applied to everything, like the study of society, history, culture, politics, or government, etc. There are very broad philosophical implications for that, for example, the idea that society is always progressing and evolving over time. The idea that society itself is evolving denies the possibility that societies can actually backslide at times, or that instead of always becoming more efficient or free over time, freedoms can be lost progressively over time, and in the future. Bureaucracy can become progressively too complex and unwieldy. It isn't always the case that what comes later is necessarily more perfect, more efficient, or better suited to the environment. The tendency to view the state as an artifact of human progress and evolution, as opposed to a relic of the past, or a necessary evil that must be kept in check. The assumption that all change is necessarily positive or inevitable. These are just a few examples.

Well said.

Changing the nature of man? No worries -government has got this, here's what we're gonna need to help this along... LOL

It's been my experience that man is naturally NOT a humble creature.

 

[otherone]

Evolution is mandatory teaching and you don't think there's any particular reason for that? The cognitive dissonance is strong in this one.

Curriculum is set by local school boards.

 

[I<3Liberty]

We have like five tangents going on. In response to the OP -- these Christians you speak of are only a select few. I'm Christian, yet I do not feel oppressed, do not care about Obama's personal religious values, and I have taken the time to learn about evolution. I actually believe in a combination of gap theory asnd theistic evolution.

The big gov righty and lefty Christians want gov intervention for all of their little whiny requests in order to "preserve their religious freedom." I get especially annoyed when they pitch a fit about gay marriage. I'm like thinking "Then why did you want the state to interfere through marriage licenses?" Marriage should have been left to the church with church-issued marriage licenses. The school prayer peeps are just as annoying. They're like "Oh we need prayer time at all schools. No prayer time restricts our religious freedom." Uhmmm, as long as there are tests worth a quarter of your grade, there will always be prayers in public school.

 

[bunklocoempire]

Curriculum is set by local school boards.

Curriculum which is funded by Christian's tax dollars. Curriculum which is funded by Atheist's tax dollars. Funded voluntarily? No.

And this can bring this tangent back to the OP: (sorta lol)

http://blogs.mlc-wels.edu/wels-educator/2012/12/14/should-wels-preschools-accept-state-funding/

Should WELS Preschools Accept State Funding?

Posted on December 14, 2012


In states where voucher programs fund private or parochial school options, a new model is meeting parents’ demand for tuition-free 4K. The objective is to open public 4K classrooms without increasing the district’s tax burden. These programs are attracting attention within the WELS. But in an era of unlikely partnerships, this particular model deserves scrutiny because of the way in which the two very different educational models are positioned. In terms of philosophy and curricular content, the educational part of this 4K model essentially remains a public school venue while the classroom itself is housed in a facility that identifies with, and is dedicated to, the educational model we know of as Christian education (CE). Educators of every ilk know that, “Whoever tells the story shapes the culture.” [ii]

New programs of this kind are really more of a business model with educational and philosophical implications than they are true educational models. In this model local participating community sites (private or parochial schools or childcare centers) are contracted to provide about 500 hours annually of instruction time to four-year-olds at no cost to their parents.[iii] The revenue for community sites is attractive. The Appleton School District in Wisconsin, for example, is expecting average per-student vouchers to be in the neighborhood of $2,300. Host sites do have some flexibility with regard to staffing. (They have the choice of using their own teachers or they can staff their programs with instructors provided by the district.) Nevertheless, all instructors in the program are required to refrain from teaching, motivating, or disciplining children from a faith-based perspective during the 2 ½ hours of each day that are publicly funded. Teachers may not lead the children in their class in prayer, teach from the Bible, apply law and gospel to behavioral issues, motivate children with the gospel, or make a public confession of faith.

The emerging rationale in support of such programs suggests that the 12.5 hours that are spent weekly in a secular environment can be offset by wrap-around programs [iv] that can legally teach four-year-olds about Jesus. This article contends that while participation in the voucher program offers congregations outreach opportunities, they would also be intentionally exposing children to an environment that supports two very different worldviews. Some children (and parents) will conclude that God will not mind if they also integrate both philosophies into their personal worldviews.[v]

Two Key Lessons from the Old Testament

God’s people had occupied Goshen for four centuries. A pagan (Egyptian) worldview had slowly crept into their understanding of life, death, the hereafter, and their worship of the true God. To prepare for their liberation, God commanded them to cleanse their homes and food supplies of every hint of yeast.[vi] The symbolism taught a simple lesson: jettison every trace of Egypt’s godless worldview from your lives.

Twenty-first century believers need to consider the implications of that narrative. God does not want us naively believing that secular philosophies are harmless or that we are immune to the deadly poison of humanism.[vii] Nor can we foolishly imagine that four-year-olds are too young to be shaped by their environment. When a classroom full of 4-year-olds takes a 2 ½-hour hiatus from their Christ-centered learning environment, the vacuum fills with a philosophy intent on replacing Christ with self.[viii], [ix], [x], [xi] Remember, Whoever tells the story shapes the culture.

For the next forty years, God enveloped his people in a divine media—columns of cloud and fire outside the camp, a tabernacle at the center of camp, the smoke-filled Tent of Meeting, morning and evening sacrifices, a calendar of festivals to remember God’s goodness, and a daily benediction. These were inescapable reminders of the Lord’s presence. God’s people depended on him 24/7 for food, water, clothing, shelter, and protection. In return, God asked for nothing more than their whole-hearted devotion.[xii]

God still hates divided loyalties—no halvsies, shared glory, or lukewarm hearts.[xiii] We want children to not only know this truth, we will want them also learning daily to live it with consistency, continuity, and deep conviction. If the words Christian education are to mean anything for future generations, the model they represent will need to uphold the biblical principle that Jesus Christ is all-in-all, . . . all of the time.

Exercising Freedom with Loving Discernment

God neither commands nor forbids us to take advantage of such public voucher models. That said, this writer is convinced that this 4K model effectively introduces secular philosophies into a learning environment that has been dedicated to the mission, learning objectives, outcomes, student motivation, discipline, climate, curriculum, and teacher training of an educational model that is distinctively Christian. Scripture supports the idea that Christ and his cross permeate every facet of the CE learning experience.[xiv] As congregations weigh their freedom to participate in such programs, spiritual leaders are obliged to counsel their members with loving discernment, knowing that whoever tells the story shapes the culture. “Consider the challenges and opportunities carefully in the light of Scripture, . . . review their mission-vision statements and the purpose for which their early childhood ministry exists . . . The training and preparation for this kind of ministry is absolutely vital. It is critical that the congregation is intentional about equipping and training the staff for this approach to ministry.” [xv]

The notion that Christian education and secular education can coexist as complementary programs should never go unchallenged. God’s people will need to be prepared to consider the very real possibility that such a business arrangement with secular education has the potential to undermine the very purpose for which Lutheran preschools exist.[xvi]

Written by Kenneth Kremer

Kenn is an adjunct professor at Martin Luther College Graduate Program, a retired editor from Northwestern Publishing House, and a member of Bethany Ev. Lutheran Church in Appleton WI.

So take this Christian's tax dollars and use it to fund public school curriculum. Now tell me I'm supposed to take over the local school boards to determine curriculum for other parents kids. I have the right and responsibility to attempt to determine how my stolen money is spent right? lol All while additionally and voluntarily funding my own preferred curriculum on the side.

How about not taking my money to begin with?

Curriculum is set by local school boards -AFTER being funded by a gun. So what's the real problem here? Shaking my head at this one.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Why would Christians think they were being oppressed? Gee, uh, hard to think with that gun pointed at me.... lol

 

[otherone]

Curriculum is set by local school boards -AFTER being funded by a gun. So what's the real problem here? Shaking my head at this one.

Maybe I'm missing something?

Why would Christians think they were being oppressed? Gee, uh, hard to think with that gun pointed at me.... lol

That's just plain old taxpayer oppression. My question was in regards to a singular conspiracy behind teaching Darwinism in schools. Perhaps there are thousands of non-concerted conspiracies, as there are thousands of school boards?

 

[BlackTerrel]

How can the majority be oppressed??

South Africa.

 

[GopBlackList]

There is an attack on Christianity, and the Military is playing a big role.

Brietbart? pass.

The only thing I don't get is why so many libertarian atheists hate government involvement, but then they defend the government when it preaches evolution in schools. It doesn't even make them suspicious that the government is spewing propaganda through media and schools in support of evolution. You would think it might undermine why the theory is so accepted, but no, it's a "fact" because, well, everybody knows that...

..

Because tts a constitutional issue, that explains separation of state and religion.

Seeing as America was NOT founded on Christian principles, nor is it a Christian nation...I think any class of people can probably make the claim that they are "oppressed."

As I'm reading Foxe's Book of Martyrs right now, I must say that the genuine Christians in America are probably only having to face others around them threatening them to be quiet. This happened with the Apostles as well in Acts 4.18 and Acts 5.40. The martyrs of the Dark Ages suffered physical persecution that American genuine Christians have yet to face, thankfully.

As for the chart, that's grossly incorrect. Genuine Christians are in the very small minority, the chart portion that says "Christians" are not even Christians. Many religious people in America, not too many Christians.

What's the dividing line between the false Christian and true Christian? Sin.

Those who commit sin are not Christians (I John 3.8). Those who live a holy and sin-free life (by the power & grace of God, not on our own strength) are in fact Christians.

Again, who are you to decide. Do some holier than thou Christians have a god-like power to see what's in people's hearts or spirits?

And that verse is bullshit because everyone "sins" and makes mistakes.

South Africa.

Yet they had the numbers to influence the direction of their country to what is now. If there were in small numbers with no political or financial influence they would not have that opportunity.

Matthew 12:33
"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit."

Who determines "good"? You or God?

 

[libertariantexas]

In this country, probably because statist militant atheists enjoy using the power of the state to deny certain Christians freedom to express their religion. (i.e. banning Christmas/Easter displays)

No one is preventing your infantile displays of "God." They are only asking that you don't do it in public (government) places. Place all the silly religious symbols you want in your home or at your church, just don't do it at the court house. Is that too much to ask?

That "militant athiest" minority is just asking that you not use state lands/buildings to promote your particular imaginary friend (er, God).

You can't swing a dead cat in this country without hitting a symbol of Christianity, so it's pretty much insane that the "oppressed Christian majority" plays the victim on this issue.

 

[Nobexliberty]

I live and Sweden and being a Christian is hard. Most people are smug athesit who thinks Christians are retarded but being muslim is just different. Anything but Christian is an acceptable religion it seems and it pisses me off as Christians made freedom of Religion a right in the first place while they are discriminated against. I am sick of this P.C game were we are supposed to be the good guys. The next time a muslim smears in my face about how bad Christians are while they are good I am going to shove the fact that their "prophet" slept with a 9 year old and that Christians gave them the right to believe that on such a perverted liar. It is time for Christians in Sweden like me too stop allowing themself to be discriminated and fight back now!

 

[Qdog]

All of you Christian people need to get your shit together. Those Mormon Missionary guys make you look bad. They are some pretty damn hardcore bible-quoting magic underwear wearing badasses.

 

[Qdog]

I live and Sweden and being a Christian is hard. Most people are smug athesit who thinks Christians are retarded but being muslim is just different. Anything but Christian is an acceptable religion it seems and it pisses me off as Christians made freedom of Religion a right in the first place while they are discriminated against. I am sick of this P.C game were we are supposed to be the good guys. The next time a muslim smears in my face about how bad Christians are while they are good I am going to shove the fact that their "prophet" slept with a 9 year old and that Christians gave them the right to believe that on such a perverted liar. It is time for Christians in Sweden like me too stop allowing themself to be discriminated and fight back now!

Dude, I should totally move to sweden. I am so alone here in Texas as a smug, know-it-all atheist.

 

[Nobexliberty]

Dude, I should totally move to sweden. I am so alone here in Texas as a smug, know-it-all atheist.

If you come to Sweden from Texas you freeze to death.

 

[Tor_Hershman]

Many Christians ARE oppressed BUT.....ye must ask thine-self, "Who did/is doin' MOST of the oppressing?"

Exmaple: Which group had more Christians killed in the Roman Colosseum?
A. Pagan Emperors?

B. Christian Emperors?

 

[TER]

Many Christians ARE oppressed BUT.....ye must ask thine-self, "Who did/is doin' MOST of the oppressing?"

Exmaple: Which group had more Christians killed in the Roman Colosseum?
A. Pagan Emperors?

B. Christian Emperors?

A. Pagan Emperors.