Why aren't we all members of the Free State Project?

Why not create an alternative Free State Project for people who don't like New Hampshire? I realize there's one in Wyoming, but I don't think that will go anywhere. I was thinking a southern Conservative state where people may be at least sympathetic to the ideas of secession.
 
Why not create an alternative Free State Project for people who don't like New Hampshire? I realize there's one in Wyoming, but I don't think that will go anywhere. I was thinking a southern Conservative state where people may be at least sympathetic to the ideas of secession.

Hey, give that a shot and let me know how it works out!

Perhaps you will have more success starting from scratch than has the FSP which has been built into a success over ten years and just keeps getting better!
 
Hey, give that a shot and let me know how it works out!

Perhaps you will have more success starting from scratch than has the FSP which has been built into a success over ten years and just keeps getting better!


Oh, I'm not advocating it. I'm talking about people who don't like N.H.
 
Oh, I'm not advocating it. I'm talking about people who don't like N.H.

Well there's a lot of smoke, but no flame. Moving to NH is a pretty serious litmus test as far as how serious someone is about activism. I wouldn't expect the competitors to pan out into much, and indeed they haven't. (FS Wyoming, Free Southeast Project, FS Europe) Of course, I could be wrong.

I don't like being cold, but this is the best chance for liberty, plus thankfully we have heat. Aside from that, what's not to like? There are more doers up here than down in Florida, whence I come.
 
Why not create an alternative Free State Project for people who don't like New Hampshire? I realize there's one in Wyoming, but I don't think that will go anywhere. I was thinking a southern Conservative state where people may be at least sympathetic to the ideas of secession.

There is a similar (though spectacularly unsuccesful) Christian Dominionist/secessionist movement in SC.
 
The biggest concern I have in the coming years is that of property tax. I have looked into New Hampshire and my research indicates that property taxes are expensive. I understand that there is no sales tax but I spend little and want to be more self sufficient and be able to live off earning little or in the case of an economic collapse live off of what I already own. Paying rent for my land in the form of property tax is a big factor for me. Many places in the country have cheaper property taxes. I can grow my own food and raise some chickens but I will always have to pay the property tax or lose my land.
 
The biggest concern I have in the coming years is that of property tax. I have looked into New Hampshire and my research indicates that property taxes are expensive. I understand that there is no sales tax but I spend little and want to be more self sufficient and be able to live off earning little or in the case of an economic collapse live off of what I already own. Paying rent for my land in the form of property tax is a big factor for me. Many places in the country have cheaper property taxes. I can grow my own food and raise some chickens but I will always have to pay the property tax or lose my land.

We need folks like yourself to move up here and help us end the property tax.
 
The biggest concern I have in the coming years is that of property tax. I have looked into New Hampshire and my research indicates that property taxes are expensive. I understand that there is no sales tax but I spend little and want to be more self sufficient and be able to live off earning little or in the case of an economic collapse live off of what I already own. Paying rent for my land in the form of property tax is a big factor for me. Many places in the country have cheaper property taxes. I can grow my own food and raise some chickens but I will always have to pay the property tax or lose my land.

I agree with Curtis. We need activists who are willing to work to change things like the property tax. What if you joined with others to refuse to pay it? Are you sure everyone would lose their land in that case?

I wouldn't want to be anywhere else but besides hundreds of liberty-lovers. Yes, the property taxes are bad, but some areas are cheaper than others. In addition, NH is the lowest overall taxed place, and that will only improve over time as thousands more activists move in.
 
There is a very valuable work-around to the New Hampshire property tax problem. You can buy a tract of undeveloped land, which has very low property taxes, and then put one (or more) mobile homes and/or winterized RVs on it. Or, join someone who is already doing that. The only big obstacle is that the land is usually sold as large tracts. There are people in New Hampshire doing that right now . Schifference, feel free to PM me for details. As far as I know, your property taxes will remain very low for as long as nothing permanent is built on the land.
 
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Obviously property tax is a valid concern. Why PM for the information. Open forum discussion can educate all readers not one inquisitive individual. Presently I live in CT and will move one day. I want to move someplace where I can own a piece of property that can support my meager lifestyle and where I can be left pretty much alone to live as I see fit. I would entertain a mobile home and would also entertain purchasing a large tract as a co-owner or coop that could be divided into smaller parcels. From the little research I have done, it appears that it is cheaper to purchase a distressed improved property that has septic and well as opposed to an undeveloped tract. The costs of drilling water, putting in septic, and accessing electricity can be prohibitive.
 
Schifference, its sometimes inappropriate to share personal contact details over the internet. I'll go ahead and PM you some details.
 
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=10146.0

I would like to repost something from the FreeStateProject forums:

Starting this thread to answer the question raised elsewhere, inspired by my sig line. I'm locking the thread to prevent hijacking. Questions/Comments sent via private msg which are FAQs will be added as needed. This is a work in progress, and I welcome feedback on it.

Why 20K is overkill
----------------------------------

This isn't a new idea, and I don't claim credit for it. I'm merely one proponent of it, and have taken to promoting it. I know many in the FSP leadership realm agree with this, but it's not official FSP 'policy' (yet)

When Jason put his numbers together, and came up with 20K, they were based on projections and assumptions. One of the assumptions was 1 million residents. Another was that the activist threshold needed to trigger change, based on other real world places (like Quebec), would be around 2% (or 20,000 for 1,000,000 residents). That number was meant to be a reasonable goal, and picking NH was an issue for some because it was (slightly) over 1 million already.

But Jason's theory has now inspired the reality. As people have moved, even with just over 100 'officially' (and the unofficial numbers higher, as I know for a fact of at least a dozen movers who aren't FSP signers), we now have some real world numbers and results here in NH. Nothing directly contradicts Jason's theory, mind you. Perhaps for a complete 'free state', we will need 20K activists... but so far, the threshold is looking far less.

Manchester's the largest city, 100K people. One local activist there tells me that a scant few dozen, who work together, could move mountains. He's working with local activists/groups that are unfocused, contentious, and unable to see the bigger picture, and they are still well on the way to achieving items like a city charter amendment, because the native support for smaller & less expensive government is there, and only needs to be tapped by those willing to work toward the issue.

In Keene (22K people), a vote to sell a school building was strongly influenced by a half dozen activists.

In Merrimack (25K), a free stater ran for the first time for a minor elective office, and while he lost, in a 3 way run for 2 seats against 2 well known local 'names', he lost by only 11 votes after 3300+ votes.

In Concord, the state capital, those of us getting involved in state level politics are getting an education of the first order. We are discovering a thirst for our viewpoint. Hearings we've spoken up, and bills we've fought for, or against, have had results ranging from getting thanked for the fresh and reasonable perspective of smaller government (often unheard otherwise) to influencing killing bad bills either in committee or on the floor of the House. Access to this level of government is easy in NH, and many of us are familar faces already in the corridors of the State House.

I could continue adding places and items, but the message is clear: a scant handful is already showing the boat can be rocked.
We don't need a 'free town', a majority in a county, or anything else smacking of 'take over', because we fit the native sentiments well already.

The biggest problem seems to be a lack of activists, tapping a largely silent but substantial percentage. Is it a majority?
Perhaps not, but it's certainly one of the vastly untapped gold mine political veins left in this country... We aren't preaching to the wind, and we've found more support than we've expected so far.

The existing native activists are glad of the fresh blood and bodies and spirit, and even with just the 100+ now, we're having a positive effect on the old hands, and learning the insider issues from them. Imagine having dozens and hundreds of people willing to organize and take on tasks that right now end up overwhelming the few...

Estimates are that the major parties have a few thousand hardcore activists. Unlike popular sentiment (and the Nolan chart), I've found that in NH, both personal and economic freedoms are more strongly valued by the Republicans here... with a strong libertarian wing in the minority. Imagine another 2 or 3 thousand working explicitly for liberty issues, regardless of party.... What could be done?

What can you do? Move now. Don't wait for 20K. We don't need 20K. 2K would do a lot. 200 would do twice what our 100 do now... and we're doing a great deal already.
 
The Free State Project ended when they failed to reach 20,000 members by the deadline. The "project" was an ill-considered resume padder for that guy anyway. I renounced my membership when they engineered the voting mechanism to cater to the non-libertarians who made up most of their membership... NH was chosen because of the voting method chosen, and because it was the closest state to the majority of members, not because it was the best state by objective criteria.

Also, the FSP forums were overrun with clearly non-libertarians-- basically democrats and republicans who thought they were "libertarians" because they disagreed with their party on an issue or two.

Since the problem in the USA is the FEDERAL government, and since no state can overturn a federal law, and the FSP is avowedly opposed to taking any kind of serious action (such as secession or nullification) the FSP was an impossible idea from the beginning.

I regret spending any time on that project, and all of the effort it has sucked out of the lives of genuine libertarians is a tragedy.

Supporting the FSP is putting energy into an impossible project, run by (or at least started by) non-libertarians, for an end that cannot, even if it were successful, produce an actual free state.

And, at this point, it is a fraud because, by the bylaws the FSP was to dissolve when they failed to meet their goal of 20k members.
 
Clearly, the FSP is a failure and a waste of time, which is why hundreds have moved and thousands more are pledged.

"Abolitionist" obviously doesn't know many free staters, as they tend to be the most hardcore liberty lovers I have ever encountered. If they aren't libertarians, it's because they are voluntarists or anarchists.

Come to Porcfest if you want to know what this community is like: http://porcfest.com
 
sounds like a blast!

big ol piece of land

shipping containers on concrete post foundations ( is that considered permanent? ) to get around property tax issues if that would work.

earthships - that would be great out there!

now the question is, where is the best area in NH to buy 100+ acres of land without being killed by potential property taxes? Or better yet which areas are unincorporated and more lax on what you do with YOUR LAND in the live free or die state.
 
Given the recent actions of the GOP, I think this deserves a bump. I hope that those who have not signed the pledge yet consider doing so.

If you want to get involved in politics, do so on the local level in New Hampshire, where it can actually make a difference. Taking over the GOP nationally is a MAJOR uphill battle. Free State Project early movers are already seeing some success in New Hampshire with just 1,000 movers. Imagine what could happen with 20 times the people!

Ron Paul has endorsed the FSP, so he thinks it is a good idea. I'm guessing given recent events, he'd have an even stronger endorsement of it.

 
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