Why aren't we all members of the Free State Project?

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Yeah, you see how he's behaving now? He's acting like a child restricting my posting ability on the BBS (in spite of the fact that I'm an AMPer). Now he started an account (with 2 posts) simply to start trolling in this thread. He's a piece of work alright. And he's the "freestate project's biggest promoter's" right-hand guy at his BBS...

This is EXACTLY why the freestate project will die. There will be people like him who want to have their way at the expense of everyone else.

The Free State Project is far bigger than two men. It's sort of like saying the liberty movement will fail because of George Hemminger. There are officially ~1000 early movers with many more who haven't officially updated. There are many areas where most FSP don't interact with each other too often. I will be moving to NH in hopefully a year (once I get out of the Coast Guard -- can't wait), and will most likely be heading towards the coast. While I am an Anarcho-Capitalist, I probably won't have that many interactions with the Keeniacs even though I approve of them immensely. Also, again, I would rather be with people who share my views (at least the vast majority), than be in the sea of Statists.

And the last word -- I will not run from the fight. You can't run forever. It'll catch up to you. Patrick Henry didn't run to the West when the tyranny was getting tighter. He fought and damn well I will too. Tu ne cede malis!

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

The Free State Project is far bigger than two men. It's sort of like saying the liberty movement will fail because of George Hemminger.

You may be right but it would sure make me feel a little more "confident" if the "promoters" of the freestate project would outwardly reject this kind of behavior (I'm talking about Ian now...). But instead of rejecting this kind of behavior, he condones it and defends it. Shows very poor judgment on his part and I for one have no confidence in a movement promoted by such people. Maybe there are enough "good" people to make up for these types, but I again express my doubts.

My best wishes to you in your move and I hope we all will see more liberty in our lifetimes...

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

You may be right but it would sure make me feel a little more "confident" if the "promoters" of the freestate project would outwardly reject this kind of behavior (I'm talking about Ian now...). But instead of rejecting this kind of behavior, he condones it and defends it. Shows very poor judgment on his part and I for one have no confidence in a movement promoted by such people. Maybe there are enough "good" people to make up for these types, but I again express my doubts.

My best wishes to you in your move and I hope we all will see more liberty in our lifetimes...

I don't know why you continue to try and associate with people who are hostile to you. Ignore them and work with people who are receptive and friendly to you. You must accept that there will be people in both camps. I just see the futility in this. I also would try and steer clear of broad brushing everyone. The FSP isn't in the business of 'vetting' whoever comes, merely that any liberty activist is welcome to come to NH and work to achieve liberty in whatever ways they desire. There would be less 'in-fighting' if the people hostile to each other, just ignored each other. It's not hard to do. Anyways, I hope you find liberty some-day also.

PS: I am known to be rude to people who I have no patience with (LE, Klamath, etc.), but I ignore them and the problem ceases to be a problem. If I have any advice it is to learn how to ignore and ostracize. Cheers.

PPS: I like Ian and support him in his efforts. (While I am a Deist & Natural Rights/Discourse Ethics believer, I do agree in the fundamental end principle -- Anarcho-Capitalism. Whether you want to pursue it for religious purpose, or ethical purposes it doesn't matter. I just want to contract and live without getting stolen from, and without being told that peaceful activities are forbidden. Cheers.)

 

[FTL_Ian]

Just to prove I've got no axe to grind, as soon as I meet you when you are visiting NH for either the Liberty Forum or Porcfest, Gene, I'll make you a BBS moderator.

 

[BonerJoe]

Just to prove I've got no axe to grind, as soon as I meet you when you are visiting NH for either the Liberty Forum or Porcfest, Gene, I'll make you a BBS moderator.

Amen.

 

[BonerJoe]

From Wikipedia:

"is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]"

You are the one posting off-topic here and I suggest you take your trolling tactics back to your friends at FTL. I see you started an account here for the sole purpose of starting your typical tactics here. I suggest you "go home" where you belong and leave this board to people who really care about issues...

Gene, would you stop acting like an angry child? I'm trying to have a conversation here.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

Gene, would you stop acting like an angry child? I'm trying to have a conversation here.

What a novel idea... It would have to be your first...

 

[BonerJoe]

Gene, when you apologize for your agenda trolling and gore picture posting...maybe we'll make some headway in our relationship.

 

[tremendoustie]

Right, but if someone is openly and merrily religious and they don't want to be around folks who are openly "rabidly anti-religious," why make an issue out of it?

I just think the idea that living in NH means "being around people who are rabidly anti religious" is a huge mischaracterization. One could happily live ones whole life there while never coming in significant contact with such people. Don't you think I should address it, when I see what I believe to be a serious misconception?

Hell, if the reason is "I don't like that one guy's avatar" it should be cool

I'm still going to say I think that's a silly reason to not join the NH liberty community.

Now it's devolved into arguing over the policies of another board/station entirely. Somehow that is not encouraging.

Yeah, it's pretty silly, although again, I wouldn't make larger generalizations based on a couple people.

If my reason is that NH is cold, I don't want to hear about how it's not REALLY that cold, and I must not really care about freedom if that's a factor, and so on... which is something that usually comes on the heels of someone citing NH's climate as a concern.

If someone comes on here and answers the question, "why do folks still believe in Keynesianism" with the statement, "because it solved the great depression", don't you think lots of people would jump in and try to set the person straight?

I genuinely think folks from the south have a vast misconception about the climate -- I know many who have moved, and found it very enjoyable. Can't I express my opinion?

I do think it's wrong to say a person doesn't really care about freedom, because they don't want to move -- I agree with you there.

But the thread can carry on trying to make it seem like there is absolutely no *good* reason to stay out of NH

There can be good reasons, I think -- jobs you can't leave, family, etc.

I'll probably express why I think a particular concern is unfounded, if I think it is, but that doesn't mean anyone has to agree with me, or even listen to me. I'd hate to have someone not consider NH, or even visit, based on false information or a misconception. Doesn't that make sense?

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

Gene, when you apologize for your agenda trolling and gore picture posting...maybe we'll make some headway in our relationship.

Hey Mr. "Moderator", why don't you take your personal messages off the forums? Trying to grandstand here? You know very well that the only reason I did that was to counter you and your "virtual thugs" who were posting the most vile homosexual and simulated "Christ" sex pictures in my thread because you thugs couldn't make a logical argument. So no, what I did was "fair game" given what you and your gang were doing. Now I suggest you take all "off-topic" remarks to another media (or maybe the "moderators" here will have to take action against YOU) ...

 

[MelissaWV]

...


If someone comes on here and answers the question, "why do folks still believe in Keynesianism" with the statement, "because it solved the great depression", don't you think lots of people would jump in and try to set the person straight?

I genuinely think folks from the south have a vast misconception about the climate -- I know many who have moved, and found it very enjoyable. Can't I express my opinion?
...

The rest of the post makes fine sense, but consider the implication of these two paragraphs. You are comparing having a personal objection with relocating to NH with a factually inaccurate statement. The climate there, no matter how "wrong" people want to tell me I am about it, is not friendly to someone with a lifetime's worth of injuries whose pain level hovers around a five on a very good day. When many of those injuries are old dislocations, breaks, or sprains, it does become a valid reason... even if the cold is only "for a short time" or "not as bad as you think." Instead of considering that this might be the case, though, objections to the climate are met with argument.

Something as personal as where you're going to live isn't really for others to decide about or toss in their unsolicited two cents. It's a bit like the religion debates. If there are factual inaccuracies being tossed around, cool, correct them. If someone's saying "it's too cold for me" or "maybe NH wasn't ideal because of the climate," I'm still perplexed as to why that sets off some switch for some people who have to wax poetic about the beauty of the climate.

The characterization of neighbors who are "rabidly anti-religious" is based off of anecdotal accounts, which are of course no better or worse than accounts to the contrary.

Suffice to say the place simply isn't for me, or for many people I know, based on a variety of factors. Call it a sixth sense: the place and Project are giving off far from a welcoming, understanding glow. Worthy effort, but not the one I'm going to throw my lot in with.

 

[tremendoustie]

The rest of the post makes fine sense, but consider the implication of these two paragraphs. You are comparing having a personal objection with relocating to NH with a factually inaccurate statement. The climate there, no matter how "wrong" people want to tell me I am about it, is not friendly to someone with a lifetime's worth of injuries whose pain level hovers around a five on a very good day. When many of those injuries are old dislocations, breaks, or sprains, it does become a valid reason... even if the cold is only "for a short time" or "not as bad as you think." Instead of considering that this might be the case, though, objections to the climate are met with argument.

I either wasn't aware of, or I forgot that. Fair enough.

Something as personal as where you're going to live isn't really for others to decide about or toss in their unsolicited two cents. It's a bit like the religion debates. If there are factual inaccuracies being tossed around, cool, correct them. If someone's saying "it's too cold for me" or "maybe NH wasn't ideal because of the climate," I'm still perplexed as to why that sets off some switch for some people who have to wax poetic about the beauty of the climate.

It sets the switch off mainly because they want you there (but also because they genuinely like the environment/climate in NH).

It's the same reason Hawaii plays ads on TV about great tourism there. They want your money -- NHites want your activism.

The characterization of neighbors who are "rabidly anti-religious" is based off of anecdotal accounts, which are of course no better or worse than accounts to the contrary.

Well, I did live there for almost two decades, and never felt discriminated against because of my religion.

Suffice to say the place simply isn't for me, or for many people I know, based on a variety of factors. Call it a sixth sense: the place and Project are giving off far from a welcoming, understanding glow. Worthy effort, but not the one I'm going to throw my lot in with.

I just don't sense the negativity you're perceiving -- and for obvious reasons, it's important to me that folks like you are not discouraged because of a bad perception. Can you identify the source of that perception? Is it FTL? I know they do rag on religion quite a bit.

Have you considered visiting PorcFest or liberty forum? I know you're not interested in moving, and that's ok, but many have told me it's a great time.

 

[Pauls' Revere]

Frankly, because I hate New England.

Seems NH is being swallowed up by Mass, N.Y., N.J., etc...

 

[Andrew-Austin]

Seems NH is being swallowed up by Mass, N.Y., N.J., etc...

Please tell me there aren't any people from New Jersey living in NH.


Dear God South Park was right:

And blast it all to hell I forgot NH was right next door to Assachusetts.

I was compiling my own list of pros and cons to New Hampshire, so far the pros outweigh the cons by a lot, but I will have to add this to the cons.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Seems NH is being swallowed up by Mass, N.Y., N.J., etc...

If that is the case how then did NHLA get 120 representatives elected? How then did they get all knife regulatory laws repealed? How then do they not have a State Income or Sales Tax? How come they are the only state that has no seatbelt laws? I could go on and on, but the fact is, it is no different than any other State that borders suckasses. Just something to think about.

Besides, they are the only state to bring to the legislature a bill specifically outlining secession & independence with a line drawn in the sand on if X happened then they would seceede (<3 Dan Itse). Yes, yes, man love. Hopefully they'll get that one passed this legislature (but, it'll get vetoed by the Governor most likely).

 

[FSP-Rebel]

Seems NH is being swallowed up by Mass, N.Y., N.J., etc...

Try vacationing there for a week and then let me know how much NH is like the others. For god's sake, look at the differentials in gun rights, taxes, the amount of libertarian-republicans in the state house/senate, lack of seatbelt or helmet laws, the amount of liberty activists per capita, lack of regulations, etc. So, it seems that NH is way different than the others in the region. Most of the mass people that move to nh tend to be conservative, reread the thread as there are articles posted here that explain this and every other anti-NH argument that has been thought of by negative nancies. And, as the new state house convenes in the winter/spring, keep an eye on the amount of pro-liberty legislation that is pumped out. Then ask yourself if any other state is remotely similar to the libertarian dynamic of NH.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

Further update: Now the "tyrant moderator" has moved my thread back to the "trolls" area and locked it so I cannot move it back. I really expect this kind of childishness from these "friends of the freestate project's biggest promoter". As long as such absolute HATE drives these kind of people, how can one expect them to "promote liberty"? Promotion of liberty means you need to promote liberty FOR ALL. Especially for those you like the least. It's this childish behavior that has me shaking my head wondering how "liberty activists" can ever achieve their goals. Sure, more people are actually waking up, but I'm not sure we can overcome this kind of mentality...

Another update: Now I have been "banned" at the FTL BBS. Really what I find amazing by all of this is I think there are many "freestaters" who are reading this thread and following these events and yet NONE have said anything about this crazy childish behavior. I might have some confidence in moving up there if I had even a LITTLE bit of support on the forums. No one steps in to say "hey, aren't you guys getting a little out of line here?"

Hey, maybe I'm just a crazy old man. Maybe I have lost too many brain cells in my old age. I think it's wrong...

 

[Keith and stuff]

If that is the case how then did NHLA get 120 representatives elected? How then did they get all knife regulatory laws repealed? How then do they not have a State Income or Sales Tax? How come they are the only state that has no seatbelt laws? I could go on and on, but the fact is, it is no different than any other State that borders suckasses. Just something to think about.

I thought it was easy to tell they were just being sarcastic. The NH government is nothing like the MA or NJ government and anyone that has driven to NH is well aware of that.

It is possible for people from one state to ruin the liberty of the people in another state, though. Highly statist folks moved from CA to OR in heavy amounts and made OR much worse. The same thing happened with people moving from NY to VT. The really statists folks from MA often select VT or ME if they want to stay in New England or move to FL or somewhere similar if they want to retire in a warmer climate.

Overall, MA being south of NH is a boon to the liberty movement in NH. We can go to MA to visit stuff, attend sporting events/ concerts, fly internationally and work if we want. Massholes can come to NH to gamble, buy alcohol, cigs, fireworks, weapons, and just about anything else (and help keep our taxes low), buy a 2nd house and pay property taxes on it and enjoy the outdoors. Plus, the Massholes pay the toll if they want to visit ME. It's a Win-Win.

 

[tremendoustie]

Another update: Now I have been "banned" at the FTL BBS. Really what I find amazing by all of this is I think there are many "freestaters" who are reading this thread and following these events and yet NONE have said anything about this crazy childish behavior. I might have some confidence in moving up there if I had even a LITTLE bit of support on the forums. No one steps in to say "hey, aren't you guys getting a little out of line here?"

Hey, maybe I'm just a crazy old man. Maybe I have lost too many brain cells in my old age. I think it's wrong...

I don't think most freestaters have ever been on the FTL BBS.

 

[ChristianAnarchist]

I don't think most freestaters have ever been on the FTL BBS.

Many of them have and do frequent the Iantalklive BBS. There is discussion there about my "conclusions" here and Ian even discussed it on one of his shows last week...

After a tip from another FTL BBS'er I found that mention of me on the show last week. It was great!!! Ian thought that the "token Christian" on his show would say that I was wrong about my "observation" that many of the Freestater's are "rabidly anti-Christian" but he was dumbfounded when Nick said he agree's with me!!!

In case anyone cares to hear the clip it was on 11-10 at the end of the show. On the amp version it starts around minute 109. If anyone wants the clip, I'd be glad to email it to you or post it somewhere...

Or here's a link to the show archive.
http://traffic.libsyn.com/ftl/FTL2010-11-11.mp3

Then, "Johnson", who used to be a co-host on the show before Ian moved to NH decided to post on FTL BBS that I am right, many "freestaters" dislike me. Here's his quote from that BBS: "I understand why Ian is confused... He's gotta be wondering.... "how could everyone be so rabidly anti-Christian, when really it seems that while many freestatars appear to intensely dislike Gene, those same people also appear A-OK with Michele Seven?" It would seem a tad confusing I think..."

None of this is to say that I care if they like me or not (because I really don't live my live to please others). The ENTIRE POINT of all my posts here is to illustrate how many (not all) freestaters are just plain filled with hate towards anyone who expresses any faith in a Creator. I really don't even concern myself with that hatred toward me (I learned over 50 years ago that "sticks and stones can break my bones, but names will never hurt me) but it's the fact that so much hatred can be elicited from a group of so-called "freedom activists" simply because another freedom activist has a belief in God. This kind of division and hatred cannot ever result in a good outcome.