Who needs cranky Ayn Rand when we have Thomas Jefferson?

[WilliamC]

Ayn Rand thought the Arabs were savages.

Wikipedia anti-arab page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Arabism



http://www.aynrand.org/site/PageServer?pagename=media_america_at_war_israeli_arab_conflict

Just speculation on my part but might this view have been directed at how Arab society and culture treat women more than just the name 'Arab'?

As tolerant as I personally am my entire worldview is based on being a man it's my biology. I have a hard time puting myself in a women's mind but I'm guessing if I were female and knew of a society where women had a similar status as chattel slaves then I'd call those people savages too.

Heck I don't have to be female to understand that.

 

[WilliamC]

Maybe the Rand cult has posters on this forum?

Well Ron Paul himself has obviously read Ann Rand's writings and is in agreements with many of her philisophical views so that is a reasonable assumption on your part.

Although I really don't consider myself nor Ron Paul to be members of any sort of cult together.

 

[ExPatPaki]

Just speculation on my part but might this view have been directed at how Arab society and culture treat women more than just the name 'Arab'?

As tolerant as I personally am my entire worldview is based on being a man it's my biology. I have a hard time puting myself in a women's mind but I'm guessing if I were female and knew of a society where women had a similar status as chattel slaves then I'd call those people savages too.

Do you have any real proof or evidence that Arab women are treated as slaves or are you basing this on Hollywood movies that you watch? I've dated some Arab women and they didn't have any chattel slave status.

Have you seen how Arab women dress in music videos? They dress just like Britney Spears. Seems pretty "liberated" to me.

 

[Agorism]

A stateless society is a pipedream. Rand didn't want a "military society," she believed that a military is one of the few legitimate functions of a government. With no objective laws and no police force our individual rights fall to the mercy of roving gangs. Society will simply break down to competing gangs fighting over turf and territory and we'll have to pay protection money to a racket in order run a business.

Anarchy? Really? You're serious? And you say Ayn Rand is for middle schoolers, anarchy is for elementary school.

No, the military and a standing army are the main things we have to get rid of. Without it, the president and D.C. can't enforce their bogus laws and wars.

 

[WilliamC]

And that's why their children deserved to be bombed and their women raped by "brave and civilized" American troops, right?

Rape and dead children/civilians are not the same thing.

In a state of declared war, where I have every belief that my and my groups continued survival is dependent upon the conquest of another hostile group then I might feel compelled to bomb targets where I knew there to be non-combatants when they are intermingled with those actively trying to kill me. It's not my fault that evil uses the inocent to shield its actions.

But raping would require a deliberate decision on my part to harm someone helpless for some personal satisfaction, and I just can't see any situation where I would want to feel that. It's up there with torture on my immorality scale.

 

[ExPatPaki]

It's not my fault that evil uses the inocent to shield its actions.

LOL, you believe that's actually the case? Where's the evidence for this? They are only evil because you say they are.

I would say the invading army is evil. You would do the same thing if your neighborhood was being taken over by foreign army.

 

[WilliamC]

Do you have any real proof or evidence that Arab women are treated as slaves or are you basing this on Hollywood movies that you watch?

I could give a rats ass about Hollywood movies when it comes to forming political beliefs, so no.

Women have been treated this way by many different cultures throughout history, including US history up until the middle 1800's.

And while I've rightly never been there myself it is my understanding based on reading history and current events that in some middle eastern countries, like say Saudi Arabia, they are largely treated this way today.

I know Iranians are not Arabians, (well Persians are not Arabians but some minority of Iranians most certainly are) and I know Arabian culture is not 100% congruent with Islamic religion and Sharia law, but in many peoples minds they are synonymous if that is what you are getting at though.

I've dated some Arab women and they didn't have any chattel slave status.

I've dated black women in Alabama during the 1980's and she didn't have any chattel slave status either, but that doesn't mean that in some parts of Africa today (no, Africans ARE NOT Arabians) they are.

Just like in some Arabian counries today women are in many respects treated as slaves, and I have no doubt that they are in some instances bought and sold for money so that would make them chattel. And misogynism is very much a part of Arabian culture based on current events, like the sexual assult on CBS correspondent Laura Logan in Egypt a few weeks ago.

Have you seen how Arab women dress in music videos? They dress just like Britney Spears. Seems pretty "liberated" to me.

Yes, and quite beautiful as well. I would like to see them have the freedom to behave so in all countries of the world, it makes my heart fill with joy and thoughts of making babies!

Better still arm them at the same time too. Nothing is as healthy for a free society as soverign, capable, armed women going about their daily lives.

 

[WilliamC]

LOL, you believe that's actually the case? Where's the evidence for this? They are only evil because you say they are.

Where did I say "they"?

I said it is not my fault that evil uses innocence to shield its actions, I never specified any curent group of people as doing this.

You are jumping to conclusions.

And I do not think that the USA is currently in a state of declared war either.

So your statement fails in multiple ways to address my written words and simultaneously reveals something about your own projections and biases.

This may be an interesting conversation.

I would say the invading army is evil.

What invading army? I was talking about bombing targets, that can be done without sending in ground troops, i.e. invading.

Now if you say every single act of bombing is always evil I have to disagree.

You would do the same thing if your neighborhood was being taken over by foreign army.

What same thing? Use my children to shield my counter attacts?

I don't understand your question, but the answer to my rhetorical one is no I wouldn't, so don't try to accuse me of being evil thank you very much, which is what you are implying.

Try again though, since I am curious as to where your mind is coming from,

 

[ExPatPaki]

And while I've rightly never been there myself it is my understanding based on reading history and current events that in some middle eastern countries, like say Saudi Arabia, they are largely treated this way today.

Saudi Arabia is pretty bad because of Wahabi fundamentalism that took over in the late 1700s. But Saudi women are doing much better now despite not being able to vote (just like Saudi men); and not being able to drive. Still Saudi Arabia doesn't represent the Muslim or Arab world.

I know Arabian culture is not 100% congruent with Islamic religion and Sharia law, but in many peoples minds they are synonymous if that is what you are getting at though.

Yep, a big part of pre-Islamic Arab culture was female infanticide (which still exists in India and China), and Islam eliminated this culture of female infanticide.

Just like in some Arabian counries today women are in many respects treated as slaves, and I have no doubt that they are in some instances bought and sold for money so that would make them chattel.

Again where is the proof or evidence for this? You're just making this shit up.

And misogynism is very much a part of Arabian culture based on current events, like the sexual assult on CBS correspondent Laura Logan in Egypt a few weeks ago.

So based on what a few people did (could very possibly be Mubarak thugs), you start denouncing an entire people and culture? American culture is pretty sick as well if we look at at the actions of how US troops act towards Arab women.

Better still arm them at the same time too. Nothing is as healthy for a free society as soverign, capable, armed women going about their daily lives.

Don't worry. Arab women are armed and ready and they have fought many times against Israel and will (and continue to) fight against American invading troops as well.

 

[ExPatPaki]

I said it is not my fault that evil uses innocence to shield its actions,

And when has this subjective evil ever done this?

 

[ExPatPaki]

So your statement fails in multiple ways to address my written words and simultaneously reveals something about your own projections and biases.

Only in your own little mind.

 

[ExPatPaki]

Use my children to shield my counter attacts?

This has never happened, so why bring it up?

 

[ExPatPaki]

Where did I say "they"?

I said it is not my fault that evil uses innocence to shield its actions.

I might feel compelled to bomb targets where I knew there to be non-combatants when they are intermingled with those actively trying to kill me. It's not my fault that evil uses the inocent to shield its actions.

So they = evil. Why are they evil in the first place in your subjective mind? Why are they actively trying to kill you? Are you really that paranoid of this particular evil "they"? What did you do to compel them to kill you?

 

[WilliamC]

So they = evil. Why are they evil in the first place in your subjective mind? Why are they actively trying to kill you? Are you really that paranoid of this particular evil "they"? What did you do to compel them to kill you?

Yes I used the word 'they' but you are automatically assuming I am talking about the Palestinians, which I'm not.

You wear your biases openly in this thread, I am not paranoid of Palestinians and they are not actively trying to kill me.

I was speaking in a hypothetical sense and you try to twist my words to fit your agenda.

Typical for a close-minded person, and from your sig line you actively wish to impose Sharia law in the United States, said act which would be in violation of the US Constitution.

Try to impose it on me or my family though and I'll be 'forced' into defending myself, just as I would against any other attacker.

 

[WilliamC]

Only in your own little mind.

Obvious projection on your part.

Keep trying though, maybe you will actually learn something new.

But your mind seems pretty closed so it will be difficult.

 

[WilliamC]

This has never happened, so why bring it up?

Read the post you are replying to. I was speaking hypothetically, not acusing any specific group of people.

Heck if my land was invaded I'd be a 'terrorist' against the invaders too, so I actually don't condem some people as you think I do.

 

[WilliamC]

Saudi Arabia is pretty bad because of Wahabi fundamentalism that took over in the late 1700s.

There you go, maybe this is why Ann Rand had a low opinion of 'arabs', because of Saudi ARABIA!

That's the ONLY point I was trying to make in this thread, and you get in a twist thinking I am prejudiced against Palestinians or something.

Dude, don't jump to conclusions, it makes you seem irrational.

Don't worry. Arab women are armed and ready and they have fought many times against Israel and will (and continue to) fight against American invading troops as well.

GOOD! I want American troops to defend the USA, not to be invading the middle east.

Isreal can do what they damn well please, they are NOT part of my country although sometimes they seem to be treated like the 51st state.

I hope that those Arab women keep and bear their arms in their own defense during peace as well as during war, since I personally LOVE women and wish to see them empowered in ways that many Arab men don't.

I'm glad you don't fit the sterotype of a misogynistic Arab male.

 

[ChaosControl]

I don't care for Ayn Rand.
Thomas Jefferson had good rhetoric but mediocre leadership.

I'm not looking to others as some special figurehead, even if I consider TJ one of the least evils within our government's history.

 

[ExPatPaki]

Typical for a close-minded person, and from your sig line you actively wish to impose Sharia law in the United States, said act which would be in violation of the US Constitution.

Haha, you're a moron. My sig line is a joke and if anyone takes it seriously, they are paranoid little idiots.

 

[ExPatPaki]

I hope that those Arab women keep and bear their arms in their own defense during peace as well as during war, since I personally LOVE women and wish to see them empowered in ways that many Arab men don't.

Have you conducted statistical surveys of Arab men in the world to come up with this or are you jumping to irrational conclusions?

I'm glad you don't fit the sterotype of a misogynistic Arab male.

I'm not an Arab and most Arab men are not misogynistic.