Where Are The Oath Keepers Now?

[Anti Federalist]

Plus, what are OK's to do in the middle of that when it is explicitly disarmed, AND there are more OK's in the region doing things than people know about. I know for a fact that more than one group of OK's have independently set up within response distance in case things go...........really bad.

Stuart has also been open from day one about his ill opinion of Malheur, and he has not been censoring himself. Perhaps he is just not being heard right now. Interestingly it was pretty much identical to mine arrived at independently. I've been much-hated here for saying Malheur was a horrible idea from day one. The 'op' managed to turn a standing undisputed win into a convoluted loss, and cost the life of a true patriot.

I imagine some (maybe a lot?) of the antipathy against Stuart Rhodes here is because he shares the same opinion about Malheur as I do.

Those of you who are still angry at Rhodes (and myself) for arguing that Malheur was a horrible idea, consider this, opposition to the events at Malheur does not imply that they (or I) would not be trading fire at Waco. We both said up front that Malheur was strategically insane. We turned out correct. Why are we the enemy for arguing against what we perceived as a horrible mistake, that turned out to actually be a horrible mistake? Aren't people with that kind of insight exactly who you want making decisions on ops?

Turned into Pyrrhic victory for the goonverment after the acquittals.

But I get your point.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Turned into Pyrrhic victory for the goonverment after the acquittals.

But I get your point.

I was hoping they would 'win' the whole time even though strategically I knew victory was impossible from the moment they announced the occupation. I was elated with joy to see the acquittals, but there are still more people to try who may not be acquitted, and now the original Bundy Ranch is in play (it really wasn't before Malheur), and they may stand trial for THAT too in the future.

The next time one of these is tried, and again, the same people just acquitted are still on the hook for the original Bundy Ranch, the government will make sure to stack the jury on account of they cannot afford another acquittal on this subject. They will not try it unless they are sure, but when they do try it they WILL be sure. If they poke around enough and decide that they will not find a legitimate-appearing jury that will not acquit, then they just won't try it. They will come back in 5 years and claim it took that long to make the case. The right to a speedy trial has been consumed by bureaucratic legerdemain. Yet another American guaranteed right sacrificed to the idol beast of State.

Thanks to those acquittals, the chances that the Bundy's and remaining Malheur occupiers will receive leniency or have the charges dropped have increased exponentially. The government will, of course, if given the opportunity bury every soul involved in any of either event. What the acquittals represent is a reduction in that opportunity.

If I had unlimited resources right now, I would be performing all-out jury nullification activism in Oregon and Nevada right now, with the hope of utterly saturating the driving and voting populations with the message of jury nullification. This would reduce the government's opportunity even more and make it more likely for charges to be dropped without contest.

 

[JK/SEA]

why can't Oathkeepers send UN-ARMED representatives into N. Dakota?....

 

[osan]

That was a real thread killer, huh? Thanks for the recognition, it helps after reading some of the comments through out the years in threads like this. I quit posting here and only lurk now and then. I wont be posting much again, but I did want to say this. I realize we have made and will make mistakes, but a "useless" organization? And so much disrespect for our efforts?

We are not a huge well funded org like the NRA; we are a tiny org in comparison, and we're doing the best we can. And when big groups like the NSA, FBI, SPLC have you in their sights... and the MSM is trashing you while you are standing up to big government... at the same time you are trying to educate police and military... it's discouraging when people that are true liberty lovers attack you as well.

And even if you have the mindset that there is no such thing as a good cop... can't you at least respect the fact that we are trying to stand up to, and stop... the worst of cops and big government?

Stewart wanted to continue the RP Revolution by educating police and military (the people that would enforce unlawful orders). I went "all in" with him and we started OK. I'll continue my "useless" work... and try not to continue to disappoint so many of the "true fighters for liberty" here at RPF.

Criminy d00d, don't take comments so much to heart.

Firstly, I only asked a question. Presence retrieved the definitive answer and I am satisfied. Some may have been too fast to come to judgment. That's what happens with humans sometimes, even the better among us. I know I fuck up regularly enough to make mention of it.

I think this site still serves a valid purpose, even if the spirit of things is not quite what it was in 2009. Things change. Who knows what may happen tomorrow?

 

[osan]

Plus, what are OK's to do in the middle of that when it is explicitly disarmed, AND there are more OK's in the region doing things than people know about. I know for a fact that more than one group of OK's have independently set up within response distance in case things go...........really bad.

If they are doing, they need to get that message out to the world. Being all humble and shit doesn't work in this insane world of perhaps well-meaning but notably stoopid people. Once again speaking statistically, we Americans have been trained to some of the worst habits imaginable. That is the reality and it is not going to change any time soon. Therefore, one must adjust his actions to reflect this altered reality and move forward accordingly. In this specific instance, it means keeping people informed about what is going on. The absence of this sort of information in an in-your-face fashion is what drove me to open this thread. I just wanted to know what was up because things seemed very quiesced. I am thinking that OK need to establish a newsfeed of sorts, whether RSS or what have you so that sites and people interested in what they are doing can get that information not just from their main site, but from those of others they frequent, like RPF.

I am really sorry that this VegasPatriot fellow feels so unwelcome here. RPFs is precisely the sort of site where dissemination of OK and similar information makes the most sense. I am not quite grokking this failure to network, which is precisely what it seems to me. This is THE network, after all, and sharing information is what it is supposed to be all about. God knows it's easy enough to implement. Why in hell are these web-masters not talking to each other? Or are they?

Stuart has also been open from day one about his ill opinion of Malheur, and he has not been censoring himself. Perhaps he is just not being heard right now. Interestingly it was pretty much identical to mine arrived at independently. I've been much-hated here for saying Malheur was a horrible idea from day one. The 'op' managed to turn a standing undisputed win into a convoluted loss, and cost the life of a true patriot.

I was never really able to wrap my head around that whole deal. I readily admit my lack of understanding of why they occupied the place. Finnicum's murder surely served no valid purpose, so far as I can see. Nobody gives a shit about a martyr for liberty, assuming that that is what he was, whether intentionally.

Those of you who are still angry at Rhodes (and myself) for arguing that Malheur was a horrible idea, consider this, opposition to the events at Malheur does not imply that they (or I) would not be trading fire at Waco. We both said up front that Malheur was strategically insane. We turned out correct. Why are we the enemy for arguing against what we perceived as a horrible mistake, that turned out to actually be a horrible mistake? Aren't people with that kind of insight exactly who you want making decisions on ops?

Was all this discussed here? I know there were threads on it, but I cannot recall the rancor to which you hint. Perhaps I was not paying attention... that or my failing memory has stricken yet again.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I saw an audio interview recently Stuart Rhodes, apparently OKs had people who went and were looking around for a place to fit. Welcomed, they were setting in for the winter when a co-owner of the Standing Rock property basically declared "Oath Keepers? That means white supremacist. I want them gone." Pure ignorance, but co-owner of the property, so... what are you going to do? They left.

 

[jmdrake]

do native americans respect the constitution?...

not trying to make excuses for oathkeepers, but if a group is not impressed with the constituition, why would the OK send in troops?...

The Oathkeepers sent in men to protect black shopkeepers in the wake of Ferguson without asking their political affiliation. From what I gather the Oathkeepers offered their services to to pipeline protesters but were told "thanks but no thanks" because the protesters wanted to keep things "peaceful." And they were. Not a single LEO got hurt.

 

[jmdrake]

I saw an audio interview recently Stuart Rhodes, apparently OKs had people who went and were looking around for a place to fit. Welcomed, they were setting in for the winter when a co-owner of the Standing Rock property basically declared "Oath Keepers? That means white supremacist. I want them gone." Pure ignorance, but co-owner of the property, so... what are you going to do? They left.

Yep. Even Jesus doesn't go where He's not wanted.

 

[Athan]

don't discount their chess game

If they aren't armed, their games were discounted. By me and everyone else that might care.

 

[phill4paul]

That was a real thread killer, huh? Thanks for the recognition, it helps after reading some of the comments through out the years in threads like this. I quit posting here and only lurk now and then. I wont be posting much again, but I did want to say this. I realize we have made and will make mistakes, but a "useless" organization? And so much disrespect for our efforts?

We are not a huge well funded org like the NRA; we are a tiny org in comparison, and we're doing the best we can. And when big groups like the NSA, FBI, SPLC have you in their sights... and the MSM is trashing you while you are standing up to big government... at the same time you are trying to educate police and military... it's discouraging when people that are true liberty lovers attack you as well.

And even if you have the mindset that there is no such thing as a good cop... can't you at least respect the fact that we are trying to stand up to, and stop... the worst of cops and big government?

Stewart wanted to continue the RP Revolution by educating police and military (the people that would enforce unlawful orders). I went "all in" with him and we started OK. I'll continue my "useless" work... and try not to continue to disappoint so many of the "true fighters for liberty" here at RPF.

I stand guilty and apologize for the "useless" comment. The OK do what they do and they do it well. I go to the OK website a coupla times a week and was just frustrated that this hasn't gotten any mention. It would have been informative to have made a video discussing it. Thanks for doing what you do Vegas. Again, I apologize.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Criminy d00d, don't take comments so much to heart.

Apologizing and saying something positive about the Oath Keepers might go a long way.

Neither of which you have done.

Just a thought!

People don't like their projects, on which they have done actual long hours of actual work and even put their actual lives on the actual line, pissed on by internet cowboys.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Their productive, successful projects which have actually helped people, furthered liberty, and made a difference in the real world, I might add.

 

[osan]

Apologizing and saying something positive about the Oath Keepers might go a long way.

Neither of which you have done.

Just a thought!

People don't like their projects, on which they have done actual long hours of actual work and even put their actual lives on the actual line, pissed on by internet cowboys.

Apologize for asking a forthright question?

I've said plenty of positive things about them in the past, but if that is what this is all about, I've had nothing but respect for the concept of the organization, not to mention that which they did during the Bundy Ranch affair. Malheur left me wondering what was up, but I remained supportive.

What people do not like their projects? Oh, I can imagine the types - blubbering progressive statist turds and far-right statist turds, all dedicated lickers of the state's boots and desirous of licking a few other items as well.

I would say that OK have a PR problem. As I wrote previously, this is an age of information and rightly or otherwise, people expect it and if it is not forthcoming, you become a non-entity in their minds. That's part of the reason I asked the question about them. They need to blow their own horns a lot more than they do - not in a self-aggrandizing way, but in a positively self-serving manner. We all know the MSM is going to treat them like shit, even if they were out getting kittens out of tree, rescuing old ladies from muggers, and vanquishing child molesters. This past election cycle should have made abundantly clear the dishonorable nature of the erstwhile Fifth Estate.

I don't know what their "marketing" strategy is, or if they even have one. I can say, however, that either they need one or the one they have is not working well enough, as far as I can see. Look at the effective way in which Trump has made virtually free used of the MSM - a phenomenon that leaves me wondering what is REALLY up with him, because I am in no way convinced that they are so easily manipulated. But my paranoia aside, the fact is that propaganda, AKA "public relations" works when done properly. An organization like OK needs the people to be on their side if they do not want to amount to nothing more than a fart in the hurricane of human history. I believe their stated goals are eminently worthwhile, which means they are worth perpetuating, lapses in prudent judgment notwithstanding. That being the case and assuming I am correct, they need to be in the public face enough that the average American dullard is aware of them and is made to come around at least to a position of neutrality, if not positive support.

The basic message of OK is one that I believe even the eroded wit of the meaner can be brought around to accept and support, but that will never happen if there is no concerted effort to bring it about. The MSM is now a demonstrated fifth column, and therefore a direct instrument of the state. That state wants nothing for the OKs other than to fade into ignominy, which means bringing the media to bear upon OK's discredit and irrelevancy. Only OK can combat that. I don't see that happening, but I may be dead-wrong on the matter. But if I am not, they have to get their butts in gear and if necessary, ask for help. Are there no people out in the aether willing to aid and abet their cause with something more significant than a dollar contribution? Is there not a single marketing demon out there unwilling to lend their expertise?

 

[fisharmor]

And even if you have the mindset that there is no such thing as a good cop... can't you at least respect the fact that we are trying to stand up to, and stop... the worst of cops and big government?

I'm not trying to piss on what you're doing. I'm just trying to get you to understand why this statement doesn't at all go over with me.

What you wrote is like saying "I'm an oncology resident in an asbestos-lined hospital which is parked right on top of a huge radon deposit, staffed only by chain smokers, and we're actively fighting against all the cases of stage 4 cancer where the patient wants us to look at them."

I do believe that you're trying to fight the worst of cops. I read what you wrote and that is what I gleaned. You are concerned with the worst of cops.

You are silent on the overwhelming majority of cops that are not the "worst" which are still cops. I do recognize that there is no such thing as a good cop. And what you are doing, is propping up the system that allows for the "worst" cops to exist.

Oathkeepers is dedicated to the proposition that the system that stripped a mentally ill Nick Christie from the waist up, tied him to a chair, and pepper sprayed him to death, and faced absolutely no repurcussions, can be made to work in a just fashion.
I simply don't buy it.

And as long as your main webpage says precisely DICK about what's going on in standing rock, I'm not going to buy it.
Start there.
At least talk about it.
Because right now, your organization's silence on the matter makes it look like you're 100% comfortable with what is going on.
I'm not at all surprised the property owner thinks you're white supremacists.

 

[JK/SEA]

any idea if any cops at Standing Rock are Oathkeepers?..

 

[phill4paul]

No idea. I would hope not. I have heard that several L.E. agencies from other states have turned around and went home either because of the financial drain to their state/county or because constituents complained that they didn't want them there. I've read reports that 2 officers resigned after being sent were disgusted by how the water protesters were treated. I don't have a confirmation handy for you regarding that.

 

[JK/SEA]

pretty sure we'll never know. OK is very secretive.

 

[osan]

I do believe that you're trying to fight the worst of cops. I read what you wrote and that is what I gleaned. You are concerned with the worst of cops.

I just had a thought - where in hell are the damned police unions? If they were on board with liberty and basic human rights, they could issue an edict to their members not to enforce any statute that violates the rights of men. What would the various administrations do, fire every cop in town all at once? Bring action against a single cop for keeping his oath and we go on strike, or something that would give the mayors, city councils, sheriffs, county and state governments plenty to think about. Thrice.

This is the aspect of the freedom deal that is so frustrating to me: we have the power in our hands to stop Themme almost literally from one day to the next, and yet we do not merely fail to take matters into our rightful hands, we reject the notion with great distemper.

The only reason there is no such thing as a good cop, save for those who resign in disgust, is that the term is now defined as something evil. Police could change this, but it seems they are not very interested in doing so. I remember from 20-25 years ago once seeing an episode of of that revolting show "Cops" where they're in a SWAT van and the one cop says, looking like he was obliterated on meth, to the effect that he gets off on the action and so on, just like a filthy addict. It was disgusting to behold, but I suspect this is pretty common.

Oathkeepers is dedicated to the proposition that the system that stripped a mentally ill Nick Christie from the waist up, tied him to a chair, and pepper sprayed him to death, and faced absolutely no repurcussions, can be made to work in a just fashion.
I simply don't buy it.

Depends on how you define "system". This could change tomorrow, were extant police to decide there would be no more of this shit. But they won't. They get off on the power and IMO are most of them so mentally poisoned that there may be no coming back for them. But in principle the change is simplicity itself.

And as long as your main webpage says precisely DICK about what's going on in standing rock, I'm not going to buy it.

An extremely valid point, and it speaks to my bit about PR. If OK are on the level, and I surely want to believe that they are, they need to play the game or become irrelevant. Mind is everything. Win the mind and you've assured your places in the scheme of things. THAT is power.

Start there.
At least talk about it.

Agreed. This should not be a very tall order. If it is, then there is a deep and very serious problem there.

Because right now, your organization's silence on the matter makes it look like you're 100% comfortable with what is going on.
I'm not at all surprised the property owner thinks you're white supremacists.

More practically speaking, it keeps OK somewhere in the public eye. It keeps them relevant and THAT is what is important for an organization that presumably aspires to growth and increasing significance. I should certainly hope they so aspire, because those are worthy goals. Think of it: barring some quantum alteration in the human animal, tyrants and wannabes will be as ticks and fleas in the coat of mankind for a very long time to come. There will likely be no dearth of purposeful work for organizations like OK through the ends of our great great great grandchildren's great great great grandchildren. There is a potentially huge market for that which OK proclaims as their goals and the mission would be ongoing perhaps for many centuries to come. Given this, I would say it is time either to get serious as an organization, which means getting wise to the game and playing it to win, or pack up your marbles and go home.

In case anyone is not clear on such matters, let me be plain in saying that they are not at all suited to half-measures. This is as political as it gets and in that arena you have to be equipped to do the sorts of battle required to win. That means not just be well armed with rifles and determination, but being well endowed with the strategy and tactics for getting the public on board, for without that support, you only stand to get a bunch of your boys killed when the day comes Theye decide they have had enough of what they see as your shenanigans and become disapprove (tip o'de hat to Occam).

I really do feel there is not only a great place for OK and others of such a bent, but a need. SOMEONE has to start standing tall for the withering rights of men, let they die on the vine, leaving us all well-exercised in the sphincters by Themme. That, or just face the truth and lay down, and I say that to every American, not just OKs.

Putting my actions where my big mouth resides, I would be more than willing to help with such efforts, in whatever ways I might.

So, what will it be? Something positive or deafening silence.

I remain.

 

[RJB]

No idea. I would hope not. I have heard that several L.E. agencies from other states have turned around and went home either because of the financial drain to their state/county or because constituents complained that they didn't want them there. I've read reports that 2 officers resigned after being sent were disgusted by how the water protesters were treated. I don't have a confirmation handy for you regarding that.

I'm surprised they don't send in Black Water type mercs like they did during Katrina and the BP oil spill.

 

[phill4paul]

I'm surprised they don't send in Black Water type mercs like they did during Katrina and the BP oil spill.

As I remember the company used hired hands at the beginning of the engagement. Their tactics, using attack dogs, etc. garnered negative press. So the company appealed to L.E. as it always does and since L.E. agencies were created for just this situation they obliged.

The emerging commercial elites needed a mechanism to insure a stable and orderly work force, a stable and orderly environment for the conduct of business, and the maintenance of what they referred to as the "collective good" (Spitzer and Scull 1977). These mercantile interests also wanted to divest themselves of the cost of protecting their own enterprises, transferring those costs from the private sector to the state.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?469181-The-History-of-Policing-in-the-United-States