When will libertarianism rise again?

[Origanalist]

Don't blame it on liberals. Blame it on yourselves and the people you put forward as your leaders. Gary Johnson was never a libertarian of any kind. As president he would use the full force of government to defy the inalienable rights of citizens. But because cannibis he was libertarian.

And don't keep saying it's to educate people. If we were educating people, we would have a discernable identity. We don't. The people who scream the loudest on this forum about rights are the very first ones to shout down any legitimate libertarian argument when it comes down to liberty issues.

The cake is one example. Cannabis is another. Until libertarians carve out some sort of liberty identity, they will continue to fail.

OK mom.

 

[Matt Collins]

Don't wait for the political environment to change. Pick a single pro-liberty issue that also meshes well with other mainstream views (guns, taxation, etc) and get out there on your local level and push it.

 

[euphemia]

That's kind of what I keep saying, but people here do not want to do it. The low profile identity of libertarianism isn't for lack of talking. Plenty of preaching to the choir here. It's for lack of principle. Ron Paul is a very principled man. That gets lost in muh weed.

 

[angelatc]

They are hard to find because freedom is not popular.

Poll after poll indicates utter disgust with the fedgov machine.

And once you dig a little bit into the poll's questions and answers, you find that the reason for that disgust and disapproval is uniformly because the fedgov is either:

A) Not handing out enough benefits, dole and "freebies".

B) Not visiting enough violence on on the enemy du jour in the poll taker's mind.

Liberty belongs to brave minority who are willing to take, by any means necessary, what is rightfully theirs, seize it from the clutches of the authoritarians of whatever stripe and the rest of the addlepated masses be damned.

We, the fringe minority, lack the will to do that.

So here we sit, and will continue to sit.

Addlepated is a new word for me. Also I am stealing this and posting it on fedbook.

 

[AuH20]

Oh don't worry, you sourpusses! Things are fine. We're stronger and better positioned than ever before. Our ideas have become well-known and, among the native American population, well-respected, even if not entirely shared.

One thing to realize is that libertarianism is a part of the right. It is a right-wing ideology. The American nation, and in fact Europe, too, is in the midst of a major right-wing shift. Is it all about Libertarianism specifically? Of course not. There are other right wing ideologies, and even more right wing people who are not ideological at all. So we can bellyache about this, or we can realize that our side, broadly speaking, is ascendant.

Now, will the right actually get anything we want? That remains to be seen. That, if it is to happen, will require some serious, historic-caliber motion and action. For now, the Left is still in total control, as they have been for the past hundred years, though they are getting a bit worried.

Country is roughly 1/4th cuckoo liberal by raw individual numbers, but liberal ideas still dominate the mainstream.

 

[oyarde]

In 2007 and again in 2011 it felt like we were on the cusp of success. In 2015 we thought maybe moderate Rand Paul could be the compromise candidate that lead our cause. Now it seems like alt-right nationalism has totally co-opted our movement.

On the positive we've gained a few great congessmen like Massie, Walter Jones, and Amash. But on the negative our entire movement has been taken over by Trumptards.

When will we rise again? I'm a decade older than when I first joined but still standing by for the Revolution.

Are you still out there in the city of brotherly love ?

 

[oyarde]

Country is roughly 1/4th cuckoo liberal, but liberal ideas dominate the mainstream.

My guess is the tipping point of 50 - 60 percent is arriving and has been in the past decade .

 

[AuH20]

My guess is the tipping point of 50 - 60 percent is arriving and has been in the past decade .

Yes and we're literally feeding & housing this next wave of despicable ingrates. We're going to need a massive disruption to stop the engineered population shift. Maybe it will take the form of a Venezuelan type crisis to organize and mobilize. Things being overly comfortable doesn't portend to any winning equation going forward. See my sig quote for emphasis.

 

[Natural Citizen]

Originally Posted by euphemia

Don't blame it on liberals. Blame it on yourselves and the people you put forward as your leaders. Gary Johnson was never a libertarian of any kind. As president he would use the full force of government to defy the inalienable rights of citizens. But because cannibis he was libertarian.

And don't keep saying it's to educate people. If we were educating people, we would have a discernable identity. We don't. The people who scream the loudest on this forum about rights are the very first ones to shout down any legitimate libertarian argument when it comes down to liberty issues.

The cake is one example. Cannabis is another. Until libertarians carve out some sort of liberty identity, they will continue to fail.OK mom.

Yeah, but she's right, though. It's quickly grown into a libertine movement. And libertine is not libertarian. In fact, libertine patently contradicts the most fundamental aspect of libertarianism which is its primary foundation for moral code.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I think that my greatest fear about this stuff is that one day we're going to have the clutural Marxists redefining a 'libertarian' movement. I think we're going to see 'libertarians' help that to happen, too. And we're sure heading there if we're paying attention to the moral decline of 'libertarian' philosophy from within the so called movement. Live your own philosophy, as was mentioned. libertarianism is gradually being redefined as Individual Liberty's primary foundation for moral code is increasingly removed from the education of the philosophy as well as society as a whole. Liberty requires public morality or virtue. The erosion of public morality is, in my view, the most unrecognized threat to liberty today.

Youth sure is wasted on the young. It's true. Whatever, though. I can plant seeds and live in the woods and be just dandy.

 

[Natural Citizen]

For now, the Left is still in total control, as they have been for the past hundred years, though they are getting a bit worried.

I'd say it's the cultural Marxists who are in control. And I doubt they're worried at all, helmuth. After all, they're on both sides of the left/right paradigm.

I'm telling ya, man, watch what happens over the next 10 or 20 years. Heck, probably even 5 at the rate we're going. You're gonna see the cutural Marxists running a new 'libertarian' movement. Mark my words, brother. And we're gonna help them, unfortunately. It's already happening. Speaking only for myself, I'm gradually coming around to the idea that I'm going to have to work against this modern concoction of a 'libertarian' movement. It's not libertarian because it blatantly disregards the most fundamental foundation of traditional libertarianism. And I won't lose a second of sleep about it either. To me, it's becoming a libertine movement under the banner of libertarianism. This is going to be destructive to the very fundamentals of traditional libertarianism. libertinism is patently anti-moral and Individual Liberty's most dangerous aggressor.

You're one of the smart ones, helmuth, so I know that you see this.

 

[CCTelander]

When liberty finally does come to AmeriKa, and I do believe that it inevitably will, it will be in spite of the so-called "liberty movement," not because of it.

 

[Natural Citizen]

I'm reminded of a great quote....

".... It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom..."

- Patrick Henry

 

[BUTSRSLY]

LEFT/RIGHT PARADIGM DOOMSAYERS UNITE!

 

[Natural Citizen]

LEFT/RIGHT PARADIGM DOOMSAYERS UNITE!

Knock it off, nerd.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

I'd say it's the cultural Marxists who are in control.

Absolutely. "Cultural Marxists" is a great term, but I'd propose one or two even better ones.

Degenerates. Degeneratarians? They are out to sneer at, take down, and destroy anything lovely and worthwhile in society. Patriarchy. Motherhood. Children. Work Ethic. Thus the word "degeneracy" sums up everything they are about.

Third-worldists. These people hate the first world (hate it!) and are out to make the first-world nations into third world nations. Plain and simple.

I especially like the second term, third-worldist. It cuts through so much confusion and illuminates the truth so much better than "left". What does "left" mean anyway? It's a direction. Meaningless. And too neutral and sterile -- lacks the negative connotation is so richly deserves.

Once you realize they are third-worldists, so many positions and policies that seemed confusing or contradictory before finally make perfect sense. For instance, the third-worldists are all about promoting homosexuality, and yet they're also super-positive toward people who regularly stone and behead homosexuals. What gives? If they hate (hate!) conservative Christianity, how come they love Islam -- did they somehow miss the reality that it is Super-Hyper-Conservative!? Far more conservative than any Christian that you will ever meet except FF/CL (and actually, even than him)? Contradiction! But no, there's no contradiction. Anything to destroy the First-World family is good (thus pro-gay). Anything to flood the First World with worthless Third World peasants is good (thus pro-gay-killers). Anything to destroy First World religion is good; anything to replace it with Third World religion is good.

It's all about making the evil oppressor First World whitey countries into good Third World countries like everybody else. Atonement through suicide.

 

[r3volution 3.0]

The Ron Paul coalition was the height of the liberty movement to date.

That coalition broke because a huge fraction of its members joined the Trumptard movement.

Some of these deserters were never libertarians in the first place (they jumped from one contrarian to another, oblivious to the differences).

Some were libertarians, who had convicted themselves that "globalism" (free movement of people/goods) is the enemy, rather than the state.

The liberty movement will revive when the deserters return and/or can be replaced by new people.

That won't happen until Trumpery is discredited. Trump himself will be discredited in 4-8 years, guaranteed. We can sit back and wait.

The underlying nationalistic "logic" of his movement may be more durable. We need to actively fight against it.

We have to carve out a third way between the SJWs' bolshevism and the alt-righter's NAZIsm.

Otherwise, the discrediting of one will only benefit the other, not us.

 

[helmuth_hubener]

Country is roughly 1/4th cuckoo liberal by raw individual numbers, but liberal ideas still dominate the mainstream.

This is such an understatement, you don't even know. America is operating under a system wherein Democrat-Americans rule over Republican-Americans. That is our system of government. The third-worldists are completely, 100% in the driver's seat. They have complete institutional control of the government (and civil service laws ensures this situation is permanent), and complete control of almost all cutural nexi. Almost.

Almost.

And that "almost" is the tiny, splinter-like wedge into which we are going to channel 100 years of rage and drive it into the heart of Theme and their System, their Cathedral. Arm in arm with, yes, cartoon frogs and water filter salesmen, using every tactic of psychological warfare the third-worldists have refined over the past decades, and in fact taking them further. Nothing is off-limits. No holds barred. The "Fake News" uproar is only the very, very beginning. The Right is going to create an entire Fake Reality if we have to. Cognitive science. Hacking the brains of the public. Theye are going to rue the day.

 

[BUTSRSLY]

Knock it off, nerd.

OK

 

[BUTSRSLY]

The Ron Paul coalition was the height of the liberty movement to date.

That coalition broke because a huge fraction of its members joined the Trumptard movement.

Some of these deserters were never libertarians in the first place (they jumped from one contrarian to another, oblivious to the differences).

Some were libertarians, who had convicted themselves that "globalism" (free movement of people/goods) is the enemy, rather than the state.

The liberty movement will revive when the deserters return and/or can be replaced by new people.

That won't happen until Trumpery is discredited. Trump himself will be discredited in 4-8 years, guaranteed. We can sit back and wait.

The underlying nationalistic "logic" of his movement may be more durable. We need to actively fight against it.

We have to carve out a third way between the SJWs' bolshevism and the alt-righter's NAZIsm.

Otherwise, the discrediting of one will only benefit the other, not us.

THAT IS CORRECT