What's Going on at the Bundy Ranch?

[GunnyFreedom]

Okay, well I'm just trying to understand why some people here want to make this about the OKs not rigidly sticking to their mission statement.

Possibly because the OKs didn't stick to their mission statement, and pretty much to the precise extent that they strayed, a controversy has blown up that does damage to OK's standing.

The only way to know for sure if that is at the root of the problem is by determining just how extensive their involvement was with security and defense.

Stuart R himself talked about running OKs through onsite security detail. I heard enough about that straight from the horses mouth to know that OK as an org was participating in the militia effort. This is where they went wrong, by straying outside of their mission statement, and had they not done that then there would have been zero blowback over anything.

Vegas Patriot? Can someone directly involved inform us on this?

 

[Deborah K]

Possibly because the OKs didn't stick to their mission statement, and pretty much to the precise extent that they strayed, a controversy has blown up that does damage to OK's standing.



Stuart R himself talked about running OKs through onsite security detail. I heard enough about that straight from the horses mouth to know that OK as an org was participating in the militia effort. This is where they went wrong, by straying outside of their mission statement, and had they not done that then there would have been zero blowback over anything.

PMing you.

 

[pcosmar]

Is this what black-shirt is claiming? Isn't he the one who got everyone riled up?

Not exactly.
The Black Shirt Guy, is Cliven Bundy's Militia Liaison. He was one of the organizers of the Militia Defense,,, Of Operation Mutual Aid.
it is a Coalition of several militia groups from all over the country.

Now rather than just having different groups running around doing whatever they please,, there is a command structure.. A leadership.

The problem is that someone who was NOT in a position of leadership and without consulting that leadership gave an order for folks to leave.

What you saw was the leadership of several militias voting. Because with a coalition there is an agreement reached between the leadership so everyone is in agreement.

You can't have different commanders giving conflicting orders.
That was the problem.

 

[Deborah K]

Not exactly.
The Black Shirt Guy, is Cliven Bundy's Militia Liaison. He was one of the organizers of the Militia Defense,,, Of Operation Mutual Aid.
it is a Coalition of several militia groups from all over the country.

Now rather than just having different groups running around doing whatever they please,, there is a command structure.. A leadership.

The problem is that someone who was NOT in a position of leadership and without consulting that leadership gave an order for folks to leave.

What you saw was the leadership of several militias voting. Because with a coalition there is an agreement reached between the leadership so everyone is in agreement.

You can't have different commanders giving conflicting orders.
That was the problem.

Did Stewart actually give a command for others besides the Oks to leave? I thought I heard him say in that clip that he informed them of the intel, suggested people leave, and told those who chose to stay to create spider holes, etc. so as to not be detectable.

 

[pcosmar]

BTW, for the record, Ryan Payne said in an interview that he arrived at the ranch Tuesday, April 8th at 0730. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79xKxWbBYcw)

That is true to my understanding.He got there the day before the violent BLM confrontation with protesters , The video that went Viral. And Sheriff Mack,,Mile V, and Stewart Rhoades did not arrive till the 13th. The day of the standoff.

They did not organize or oversee the 500 (by conservative estimates) men that lined the area around the BLM,
And for all the rhetoric about them being crazy hotheads,, not a shot was fired. (most of them were never even seen)

 

[Tod]

BTW, what is this "fleur" (sp?) thing that went missing? Sounds like a radio signal relaying station or something.

 

[pcosmar]

Did Stewart actually give a command for others besides the Oks to leave? I thought I heard him say in that clip that he informed them of the intel, suggested people leave, and told those who chose to stay to create spider holes, etc. so as to not be detectable.

I heard what Rhoades said.

I have also heard what the scene commanders said.

And they did not consider it valid threat. And rightly so. A drone attack is not likely and would not be effective for anything but pissing a whole lot of people off.

A Drone attack is NOT going to wipe out the ranch. It may kill some,,but most certainly not all.. And it would mobilize a hidden monster that the US Gov does not want to awaken.

 

[pcosmar]

BTW, what is this "fleur" (sp?) thing that went missing? Sounds like a radio signal relaying station or something.

FLIR
It's thermal imaging.. A real nice night sight.
http://www.flir.com/US/

 

[Deborah K]

I heard what Rhoades said.

I have also heard what the scene commanders said.

And they did not consider it valid threat. And rightly so. A drone attack is not likely and would not be effective for anything but pissing a whole lot of people off.

A Drone attack is NOT going to wipe out the ranch. It may kill some,,but most certainly not all.. And it would mobilize a hidden monster that the US Gov does not want to awaken.

What about the militia physically attacking those dudes in the clip? Was that really necessary?

 

[Tod]

What about the militia physically attacking those dudes in the clip? Was that really necessary?

What clip are you referring to?

 

[pcosmar]

What about the militia physically attacking those dudes in the clip? Was that really necessary?

Who did they attack..?

I heard a threat of an ass whoopin' if certain people tried to re-enter the ranch.

And that deserters ought to be shot.. I was told that directly by my Platoon Sgt during a Live fire drill too..

"If you turn around I will shoot you where you stand" and that is a direct quote.

 

[Deborah K]

Who did they attack..

I heard a threat of an ass whoopin' if certain people tried to re-enter the ranch.

And that deserters ought to be shot.. I was told that directly by my Platoon Sgt during a Live fire drill too..

"If you turn around I will shoot you where you stand" and that is a direct quote.

It's in the clip. They physically attacked the older dude and the guy next to him.

 

[donnay]

What clip are you referring to?

The last one you posted. The Vietnam Vet who has stints in his heart. Another had to draw on a couple of yahoos too.

 

[Deborah K]

What clip are you referring to?

 

[phill4paul]

What clip are you referring to?

I believe she is talking about the 51 minute OK rebuttal video where they claim some of the "Mountain Men", my guess is they were referring to the West Mountain Rangers (Paynes (black shirt) group), attacked the Vietnam vet and another. Knocking him to the ground with an elbow shot to the chest (the vet has heart stints).

 

[Deborah K]

24:50

Rhodes: "....I'll make no bones about it, that camp was turning into a circus and I wanted my guys out of there."

 

[pcosmar]

It's in the clip. They physically attacked the older dude and the guy next to him.

Are you talking about the BLM?

The only violence that occurred,, to my knowledge, was by the BLM agents.

 

[pcosmar]

I don't see anyone being attacked in that,,

I heard some men came to the rescue of a woman that was in distress.
and that only after taking a couple days to get a story out.. I was waiting for the video,, that was promised well over a day before.

and could have been made in ten minutes.

 

[Deborah K]

According to the clip, it sounds to me like they functioned mostly as scouts, and supplied communication, etc. I'm not hearing that they ever provided security or defense. I'm referring to the org. - not individual members who may have decided to join with the militia. They also alluded to what I wrote earlier, that they were responsible for coordinating V.I.P.s arriving on scene, and P.R..

I really think it's necessary to separate fact from fiction here. I'm not going to so easily accept that the OKs deserted, or stole anything, or subverted their own mission statement.

 

[phill4paul]

OK. Here are the players just so we can keep it clear. These are gathered form various news articles so I'm not putting any info out that isn't already know.

Jerry DeLemus: (912 Movement) Arrived April 11th and commander.

Ryan Payne: (West Mountain Rangers, coordinator with Operation Mutual Aid) Arrived Tuesday, April 8th. (referred to as black shirt)

Stewart Rhodes (OathKeepers) Arrived April 13th