What was the alternative to what the police did in Boston?

[pcosmar]

Things like the IRS, Federal Reserve, 80% of the federal departments aren't essential functions of government, but having a local police force that cracks down on crime and arrests violent criminals is an essential function of government.

NO It Is Not

Police ( the very concept of Police) should not exist in a free society.

Period.

Read This

ARE COPS CONSTITUTIONAL?
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm

The Constitution contains no explicit provisions for criminal law enforcement. Nor did the constitutions of any of the several states contain such provisions at the time of the Founding. Early constitutions enunciated the intention that law enforcement was a universal duty that each person owed to the community, rather than a power of the government. Founding-era constitutions addressed law enforcement from the standpoint of individual liberties and placed explicit barriers upon the state.

I have posted it several times,, and it is quite clear.

The very fact that they do exist shows how far we are from anything close to freedom.

 

[jmdrake]

I've said that the lockdown was a mistake, but I understand why they did it given the situation that existed. They had to react fast and didn't have much time to decide what to do.

Great! So now we're almost all on the same page. So if everyone agrees the lockdown was a mistake that means that in future events we don't want this seen as "the way" to handle the situation. How best to make sure that happens? By saying "Gee government! Jolly good job! I know it's tough on you and all to think on your feet and such. Just...maybe next time....pretty please consider doing it a different way okay?" Or....be out front and point out the unproductive fubar that it was?

Really, Alex Jones gets some things wrong. But one thing he has gotten right is that we are in an information war. Our enemies do not let any crisis, real or imagined, go to waste. You can best believe that the "success" of this lockdown would be used to justify doubling the DHS budget and local police budgets in the next year. There was a recent purhcase of MRAPs. (Mine resistant armored personnel carriers). Well...of course we need MRAPS! We've got domestic terrorists setting off IEDs! (Now how they justified the MRAP purchase BEFORE the marathon bombing? Well...you tell me!) Yes it makes people uncomfortable to go against the conventional wisdom days after the Lanza shooting and saying "We need more guns in school for the schools to be safe." Folks were saying then "Oh it's too early to politicize the event! Let's let the families morn." Bull! We almost lost our gunrights because we didn't push back hard against what was coming out as conventional wisdom. And who knows what rights we will lose if we don't push back hard against the conventional wisdom regarding the Boston marthanon massacre. Really, that's what spawns the conspiracy theories. It's one way to push back. Pointing out that what the "powers that be" did to make us safe...really didn't make us safe...is another way to push back. Being nice and conciliatory because some of us don't want to seem to "anti police" or "anti establishment" really doesn't help anything as far as I can tell.

 

[Brett85]

Even Rand has said that he's not opposed to the technology of drones. He just thinks that the government should have to get a warrant before they're used. So even Rand wouldn't have had a problem with using drones to catch this suspect, as long as the government got a warrant before hand, which also means that Lindsey Graham had no idea what he was talking about when he criticized Rand by saying that "a drone sure would've been nice to use in this situation."

 

[jmdrake]

The McVeigh situation was entirely different. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Just two entirely different situations and events.

Apples and orangers are both fruit had have many of the same nutritional properties so people do comapre apples with oranges. And those "two entirely different situations" weren't all that different. In both cases the perp was actually caught outside the dragnet. But you've answered my question. You can't be open minded enough. Sad.

 

[jmdrake]

Even Rand has said that he's not opposed to the technology of drones. He just thinks that the government should have to get a warrant before they're used. So even Rand wouldn't have had a problem with using drones to catch this suspect, as long as the government got a warrant before hand, which also means that Lindsey Graham had no idea what he was talking about when he criticized Rand by saying that "a drone sure would've been nice to use in this situation."

Who brought up drones? Straw man argument?

 

[Brett85]

NO It Is Not

Police ( the very concept of Police) should not exist in a free society.

Period.

Read This

ARE COPS CONSTITUTIONAL?
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm


I have posted it several times,, and it is quite clear.

The very fact that they do exist shows how far we are from anything close to freedom.

Well, I just respectfully disagree. I'm just a believer in limited government rather than an anarchist or almost-anarchist. I don't have a problem with the basic functions of government like the military, the police, the court system, etc. Also, the 10th amendment limits the power of the federal government, not state and local governments. Many of the recent police powers given to the federal government are unconstitutional, but there's nothing in the Constitution which prevents states and local governments from having a police force.

 

[Aratus]

Also... its easy to have surveillance satellites or drones snoop on people from a high altitude, the cameras and lenses
are much better than the U2s had at about the time of the Cuban Missile Crisis in the early 1960s. Being bombed to
the hereafter by a hostile military drone because a dubious well paid informer "somebody" lied about me would get me
upset, especially if there was no trial or way to face down the slander, libel and gossipy lies at all. I am being serious.

 

[Brett85]

Who brought up drones? Straw man argument?

PCosmar in post 257 responded to someone elses comment about drones.

 

[TheTexan]

NO It Is Not

Police ( the very concept of Police) should not exist in a free society.

Period.

Read This

ARE COPS CONSTITUTIONAL?
http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm


I have posted it several times,, and it is quite clear.

The very fact that they do exist shows how far we are from anything close to freedom.

Indeed. Police are nothing more than the enforcement arm of the ruling class. And it's growing. Out of control.

 

[nobody's_hero]

bill clinton in the 1990s had far less authority concerning any micromanaging of the events after the tragic bombing in 1995.

2013 is after the steroid intense imperial presidency of george w. bush, and if the cops went to POTUS instead of a judge before

entering a legal domicile inside the "red" zone thusly established, it would not surprise me if D.C supervised each nanosecond.

It's it amazing how they grant themselves more power only to be less effective in fighting crime? (That is— if you believe fighting crime is their only motive, and not the part about power, which, would be hard to sell here)

 

[jmdrake]

Things like the IRS, Federal Reserve, 80% of the federal departments aren't essential functions of government, but having a local police force that cracks down on crime and arrests violent criminals is an essential function of government.

You realize that this was not merely the "local police force" in this case right? We had military snipers on people's sheds and national guard troops and all sorts of federal agents involved in the manhunt.

 

[tod evans]

It's really sad that TC views soldiers as police.

It doesn't matter to me which government agency the guys wearing body armor, carrying battle grade weaponry and driving APC's are drawing their check from, they're soldiers!

And they marched on the streets of Boston!

Throwing around political monikers like "anarchist" or "libertarian" or quoting Rand about drones completely fails to address the simple fact that soldiers went door to door exactly as they do in occupied countries.

Wake up!

 

[Brett85]

You realize that this was not merely the "local police force" in this case right? We had military snipers on people's sheds and national guard troops and all sorts of federal agents involved in the manhunt.

No, I didn't realize that.

 

[pcosmar]

Well, I just respectfully disagree. I'm just a believer in limited government rather than an anarchist or almost-anarchist.

You did not even read it.

How fucking dishonest are you?

It is about limited Government. And about the limits of said government. Nothing about it is anarchist. It is based on the US Constitution and the Several States Constitutions.

What you are supporting is authoritarianism. The very opposite of liberty.

 

[The Gold Standard]

"No person shall be deprived of life, liberty, and property without due process of law."

This is why the government exists, to defend life, liberty, and property. This is what libertarians are supposed to believe, rather than this anarchist vision where it's just every man for himself, where only the strong survive.

You have no idea what anarchy is, so you really shouldn't be attacking it. I have no doubt private defense agencies would have done a much better job apprehending the suspect without requiring thousands of troops and imprisoning the people in their homes.

Well, people are saying that the police should've had no role in chasing the suspect, if you want the most accurate term possible.

Were they chasing the suspect? Or terrorizing the population while some lowly mundane found the guy when he went out for a cigarette?

 

[The Gold Standard]

In that situation the police didn't have any idea where McVeigh was. In this situation, the suspect had escaped from the police, and the police actually had a good idea about the general area that he was in. They set a perimiter where they believed the suspect was and searched the perimiter, which was the right thing to do.

They didn't have a very good idea, since he wasn't in their perimeter. Luckily they busted some drug addicts within their perimeter. Wasn't a total waste, right?

 

[Aratus]

curiously enough, we've got a special election looming for john kerry's senate seat. ed markey comes across like as if he's trying to be
the younger brother teddy kennedy never had, and stephen lynch stresses in his ads how working class he still is, and how he went to
night school to get a law degree. on the republican side, we have a young, nice former Navy SEAL, an older businessman who lucked into
scott brown's old seat in the state legislature, and mr. sullivan who had been part of the justice department during the "W" years. if we
see ed markey get a lot of votes inside the areas that were under the house to house searches, please read this as a vote for BHO. if we
see stephen lynch doing well in the Democratic primary, then his more working class & quasi~critical of D.C pitch has worked it's moxie.
i think gomez can run again, I feel winslow is to the right of mitt romney & acts like a businessman and sullivan will do either well or badly.

 

[MelissaWV]

No, I didn't realize that.

Even though we have mentioned the FBI repeatedly, and photos of military were shown earlier in the thread.

Of course you didn't.

 

[Brett85]

You did not even read it.

How fucking dishonest are you?

It is about limited Government. And about the limits of said government. Nothing about it is anarchist. It is based onn the US Constitution and the Several States Constitutions.

What you are supporting is authoritarianism. The very opposite of liberty.

Lol. I guess "respectfully" went out the window.

 

[jmdrake]

It's really sad that TC views soldiers as police.

It doesn't matter to me which government agency the guys wearing body armor, carrying battle grade weaponry and driving APC's are drawing their check from, they're soldiers!

And they marched on the streets of Boston!

Throwing around political monikers like "anarchist" or "libertarian" or quoting Rand about drones completely fails to address the simple fact that soldiers went door to door exactly as they do in occupied countries.

Wake up!

If the "Grey State" guys don't hurry up with their movie, it will become an historical retrospective (if it's allowed to be made at all).