What was the alternative to what the police did in Boston?

[MelissaWV]

If someone is kidnapped in their own home, do you think that it's necessary for the police to get a warrant before going in to try to take out the hostage taker?

How is that search and seizure of property?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

The right to be secure against unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated AND no warrants shall issue. AND. AND. AND. In other words, the warrant does not even guarantee that a search is reasonable. There are two separate clauses there. But you know that, which is why you only quoted one to begin with.

ETA: Clarification. If the hostage "standoff" is going on inside of a private home and no one called for help --- and a call for help is a defacto invitation into your home --- then the police do not have the right to bust down the door without a warrant because they think a hostage situation is in play. How would they even know?

How do your damned scenarios make any sense?

HOW DO THEY EVEN RELATE TO YOUR IMAGINARY QUEST FOR ALTERNATIVES TO WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE IN BOSTON?

 

[Brett85]

According to the Constitution, yes. Unless you believe it's okay to enforce the constitution selectively.

According to the Constitution there shouldn't ever be any "unreasonable searches." If you have a bad guy who's taken someone hostage in their own home, it doesn't sound "unreasonable" to search that home in that situation.

 

[TheTexan]

According to the Constitution there shouldn't ever be any "unreasonable searches." If you have a bad guy who's taken someone hostage in their own home, it doesn't sound "unreasonable" to search that home in that situation.

No, according to the Constitution, a "reasonable" search would acquire a warrant, and an "unreasonable" search would be denied a warrant. In both cases, you need a warrant.

 

[Brett85]

How is that search and seizure of property?

It's relevant to what happened here, because there was a possibility that this 19 year old suspected terrorist had gone into someone's home and taken the homeowner hostage. The purpose of going house to house wasn't necessarily to "search" the entire house, but to make sure that the suspected terrorist hadn't taken anyone hostage.

 

[MelissaWV]

It's relevant to what happened here, because there was a possibility that this 19 year old suspected terrorist had gone into someone's home and taken the homeowner hostage. The purpose of going house to house wasn't necessarily to "search" the entire house, but to make sure that the suspected terrorist hadn't taken anyone hostage.

I take it back. You can't be serious.

"Hi I'm just knocking on your door to make sure no one has taken you hostage. Now I am evacuating you from your home to verify the same. Now I am shutting down all the businesses to ensure no one is taken hostage there, either. I have thought this through and obviously my knocking on the door and announcing myself as the police will not cause a 19 year old suicidal terrorist to kill you or anything, if he is in fact in your home. Hey, is that pot?"

 

[Brett85]

I take it back. You can't be serious.

"Hi I'm just knocking on your door to make sure no one has taken you hostage. Now I am evacuating you from your home to verify the same. Now I am shutting down all the businesses to ensure no one is taken hostage there, either. I have thought this through and obviously my knocking on the door and announcing myself as the police will not cause a 19 year old suicidal terrorist to kill you or anything, if he is in fact in your home. Hey, is that pot?"

1) Do you really think that the police would be worried about arresting someone for pot in a situation like this?
2) Was there a post in this thread where someone provided a link that showed that the government in Boston forced private businesses to close?

 

[TheTexan]

Traditionally, "conservatives" have had little regard for the Constitution. So, I would say "Traditional Conservative" is aptly named.

 

[TheTexan]

1) Do you really think that the police would be worried about arresting someone for pot in a situation like this?

Do you think they would be worried about frisking women as they ran scared out their door at gunpoint?

 

[Brett85]

Traditionally, "conservatives" have had little regard for the Constitution. So, I would say "Traditional Conservative" is aptly named.

I believe in following the Constitution. I also realize that there has always been an exception to getting a warrant to search a home in an extraordinary public safety situation. Every single court and every single judge in the nation has ruled that.

 

[pcosmar]

It's relevant to what happened here, because

 

[MelissaWV]

1) Do you really think that the police would be worried about arresting someone for pot in a situation like this?
2) Was there a post in this thread where someone provided a link that showed that the government in Boston forced private businesses to close?

Sorry. The photos of businesses with signs saying they had to close, and the press conferences with officials telling businesses to stay closed, and closing schools and the like, are not the least bit important. My bad.

You ignored the rest of my post, particularly the part of it being pretty dangerous IF the kid was in someone's home, to knock on their door and announce themselves as police. You'll notice the cops have vests and other armor. The citizens opening the doors do not. What do you think happens there? Why do you think that's an acceptable loss in the eyes of the police?

Yes, btw, I do. You even posted that during an emergency search without a warrant, things in plain view are fair game. What do you think that involves? Do you really think no one was arrested under the "plain sight" category? One of the reasons there were so many false rumors of arrests was that there were other people swarmed by cops, innocent or guilty, stripped, frisked, detained, evacuated from their homes (for things that wound up NOT being that dire), etc.. You want to assure me that nobody was arrested during the entirety of the lockdown?

 

[tod evans]

You're still not addressing the simple fact that soldiers marched on Boston TC.



Yes I'm yelling now

 

[pcosmar]

You're still not addressing the simple fact that soldiers marched on Boston TC.



Yes I'm yelling now

Sure he is addressing it.

He is attempting to justify it.

.

 

[Brett85]

You ignored the rest of my post, particularly the part of it being pretty dangerous IF the kid was in someone's home, to knock on their door and announce themselves as police. You'll notice the cops have vests and other armor. The citizens opening the doors do not. What do you think happens there? Why do you think that's an acceptable loss in the eyes of the police?

Ok, that's a valid point. You might be right.

 

[Brett85]

You're still not addressing the simple fact that soldiers marched on Boston TC.



Yes I'm yelling now

Perhaps it would've been better for the federal government to provide support in terms of intelligence gathering and drones with a warrant, rather than actually having troops on the ground.

 

[Brett85]

You even posted that during an emergency search without a warrant, things in plain view are fair game.

I simply stated what the current law is, not that I agree with it.

 

[Aratus]

we still have both a Republican and a Democratic senate race primary on April 30th and the general election in June.

we might read this as an affirmation of our president if Ed Markey wins both his primary and then the June election.

i am going to be watching the vote totals from the areas that tacitly were under something like martial law in full to

see if there are any gains by the GOP or if most of the president's supporters here are happy about how this ended up.

 

[Philmanoman]

Without a doubt I wouldnt of called for 9000 agents.Way too many...cluster fuck...

 

[Anti Federalist]

And where it all started, 238 years ago TO THE DAY...is where it all ends, 238 years later.

It was a hell of a run.

Shit...that is so fucking depressing, it brought a tear to my eye.

ATF:

FBI:

MP (Military Police) shown clearly, with police vest over top (tangent: awesome pen sheaths in your sleeve, dude. Totally impressed.):

State Police:

Local police, right?

That toddler smells loaded...

Seriously you didn't see this?

 

[Anti Federalist]

You have a doubt?

we still have both a Republican and a Democratic senate race primary on April 30th and the general election in June.

we might read this as an affirmation of our president if Ed Markey wins both his primary and then the June election.

i am going to be watching the vote totals from the areas that tacitly were under something like martial law in full to

see if there are any gains by the GOP or if most of the president's supporters here are happy about how this ended up.