What was the alternative to what the police did in Boston?

[Brett85]

It's simple. It was technically voluntary, but with all of these bulletins and the media saying to shelter in place (not a hint of "if you really want to" to be found), most people got the distinct impression it was mandatory.

Those who went out in it met with very mixed results.

The language throughout the press conferences was mixed, and the language was certainly stronger when it came to businesses. People's lives were screwed by this. Some medical treatments are timed, and very important. Some people live paycheck to paycheck and get paid hourly --- do you think they'll be compensated for not being able to work? Some folks probably did not have a store of food in their homes. There was really no warning for this, but then they were shut in their homes "voluntarily" unless of course the police came to their door and asked them to evacuate.

Somehow that doesn't seem right or necessary, as dozens have said in this thread alone, but now we are just chasing our tails.

This is what someone else said in another thread:

"It would seem to me that the reason to have a curfew in this particular instance (where a crazed gun-firing, bomb-throwing criminal is involved who may be strapped with explosives) is not so much to catch him per se but to prevent a mass casualty scenario. At least that is how I understand it with the very limited emergency disaster training I have. Thus, airports were closed not because he might get on a plane, but so that he doesn't blow himself and several dozen other people up with him in the airport.."

 

[awake]

Lock down or not, you had militarized police, who are one shade from full soldiers, in the streets.

 

[MelissaWV]

This is what someone else said in another thread:

"It would seem to me that the reason to have a curfew in this particular instance (where a crazed gun-firing, bomb-throwing criminal is involved who may be strapped with explosives) is not so much to catch him per se but to prevent a mass casualty scenario. At least that is how I understand it with the very limited emergency disaster training I have. Thus, airports were closed not because he might get on a plane, but so that he doesn't blow himself and several dozen other people up with him in the airport.."

Except they didn't close the airport.

He could have shown up at a hospital (still operational) and blown it up for mass-casualty as well.

He could have hidden near one of those dozen-deep columns of cops and blown them up for mass-casualty.

And having people crowd into their homes would give him an excellent opportunity to blow up a usually-empty apartment complex with assurances that most people were crammed into their homes.

Illogical logic is illogical.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Interesting...

I don't think you're ever going to find your anarcho-capitalism though. Not enough people respect liberty nearly enough. Minarchy is the next best option.

+1 for really making me think.

FWIW I agree.

I'd jump for joy at a whole nation supporting minarchy at this point.

Too bad they are jumping for joy at, near as I can figure, some bastardized version of Stalinism.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Except they didn't close the airport.

And you can be damn sure I was "checking six" as I was standing out in the open, all bunched up like sitting ducks, doing the Compliance Shuffle in the "security" line with the rest of Boobus.

Near as I could see I was the only one.

Every single other person either was gazing blankly ahead at the person in front of them, having conversation while doing so, or head down playing with gadgets.

 

[Christian Liberty]

FWIW I agree.

I'd jump for joy at a whole nation supporting minarchy at this point.

Too bad they are jumping for joy at, near as I can figure, some bastardized version of Stalinism.

I'd jump for joy at the whole nation supporting CONSTITUTIONALISM. Not perfect, but a start at least...

Won't happen though. You're absolutely right. We're moving closer and closer to fascism. Technically, I think fascism is more accurate than Stalinism since they actually do still pretend they believe in property rights. That doesn't exist in any form under Socialism.

 

[Brett85]

Too bad they are jumping for joy at, near as I can figure, some bastardized version of Stalinism.

I think they were celebrating that the suspect was caught, not making a political statement that they support martial law or anything like that.

 

[Origanalist]

I think they were celebrating that the suspect was caught, not making a political statement that they support martial law or anything like that.

USA! USA!

 

[TER]

Except they didn't close the airport.

He could have shown up at a hospital (still operational) and blown it up for mass-casualty as well.

He could have hidden near one of those dozen-deep columns of cops and blown them up for mass-casualty.

And having people crowd into their homes would give him an excellent opportunity to blow up a usually-empty apartment complex with assurances that most people were crammed into their homes.

Illogical logic is illogical.

What is illogical is having him have more targets. There are risks involved in leaving a hospital accessable. Also with having apartment complexes full of people. There are risks involved in every decision. The art is in minimizing these risks while staying within the confines of the law and the Constitution. Doing so in a very fluid and rapidly escalating and unpredictable environment. The Boston police did not handle the situation perfectly, but they did better then recent police departments have. I think our fight in this right now should concentrate on the importance of the bomber's rights to an attorney and the importance of search warrants.

 

[Brett85]

USA! USA!

What exactly was wrong with that? I felt that all of the cheering after Osama Bin Laden's death was kind of strange, because it seems kind of morbid to celebrate someone's death, even though he deserved it. But, it seems more appropriate in this case since they captured the suspect rather than killing him.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I'd jump for joy at the whole nation supporting CONSTITUTIONALISM. Not perfect, but a start at least...

Won't happen though. You're absolutely right. We're moving closer and closer to fascism. Technically, I think fascism is more accurate than Stalinism since they actually do still pretend they believe in property rights. That doesn't exist in any form under Socialism.

Agreed, I just threw the Stalinism out there to change things up a bit, so as not be accused of invoking Godwin.

But from a strictly accurate point of view, yes, this system we have now is textbook fascism.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I think they were celebrating that the suspect was caught, not making a political statement that they support martial law or anything like that.

Perhaps I was not clear, apologies, I was refering to people in the US in general, not specifically the people in Boston involved in this incident.

 

[TER]

Agreed, I just threw the Stalinism out there to change things up a bit, so as not be accused of invoking Godwin.

But from a strictly accurate point of view, yes, this system we have now is textbook fascism.

How do we fix this?

 

[Anti Federalist]

How do we fix this?

My brother, I wish I had an easy and quick answer.

I hold a glimmer of hope, that maybe we'll reach some kind of critical mass, that we would be able to have the same success on gun rights with all the rest of our rights as well, which was accomplished by tireless effort, campaigning, nagging, hectoring, educating and holding fast in the face of a tsunami of swirling public opnion.

But the reality I see everyday suggests otherwise...that the only option will be a separation, followed by, maybe or maybe not, a fight.

 

[PaulConventionWV]

They would probably do that if this had just been an ordinary crime, but obviously it wasn't. This was an extraordinary situation.

Since when do we, here at the Ron Paul forums, use extraordinary circumstances as an excuse to take people's rights away?

 

[Brett85]

Since when do we, here at the Ron Paul forums, use extraordinary circumstances as an excuse to take people's rights away?

What rights were taken away? The reports are that the police didn't go into any home in which the homeowner refused to have his or her home searched.

 

[The Gold Standard]

As a Bostonian I can confirm that people were not forced to stay in their homes, nor were there any involuntary searches.

You were present in every building in Boston?

 

[The Gold Standard]

The bottom line is that I'm not saying they did everything right, but unlike others I'm not going to say that they didn't do anything right. I understand why they did what they did given the situation.

What do you suppose your heroes did do right? They didn't prevent the bombing. They slaughtered the first guy. They didn't even catch the second guy, some mundane did while wandering around his back yard. Not exactly an efficient operation.

 

[TER]

My brother, I wish I had an easy and quick answer.

I hold a glimmer of hope, that maybe we'll reach some kind of critical mass, that we would be able to have the same success on gun rights with all the rest of our rights as well, which was accomplished by tireless effort, campaigning, nagging, hectoring, educating and holding fast in the face of a tsunami of swirling public opnion.

But the reality I see everyday suggests otherwise...that the only option will be a separation, followed by, maybe or maybe not, a fight.

I've got the same bad feeling. I am optimistic at times however that we as a nation still have a magnificent story to tell and that there will be an American Renaissance. Most times, sadly, I have an urge to facepalm. But there are strong signs of an awakening happening. When and if the critical mass happens and the people stand for justice and truth, it is known by none but God. But, it can be any day and my gut tells me we will live to see it.

And if we don't, at least having started the race and tried to fight the good fight with the assurance that we go before a merciful and loving God.

We have entered the race and have started the race. May we never fear to reach the finish line even as the devil fights us and sets traps. Rather, we run to be closer to God at the end of every race we run. The rest is secondary.

 

[Anti Federalist]

What rights were taken away? The reports are that the police didn't go into any home in which the homeowner refused to have his or her home searched.

And conflicting reports contradict this.